Remco Evenepoel

[samhocking]

They took a feed at the top, Remco then clearly seen drinking from a white bottle just before he crashes. It looks like after he drinks it, he's then squashing it flat perhaps before putting into his back pocket.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1298397538140196865

View: https://twitter.com/Puncheur_music/status/1298397538140196865?s=20

 

[Red Rick]

They took a feed at the top, Remco then clearly seen drinking from a white bottle just before he crashes. It looks like after he drinks it, he's then squashing it flat perhaps before putting into his back pocket.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1298397538140196865

View: https://twitter.com/Puncheur_music/status/1298397538140196865?s=20

It's stuff like this that does all the reasonble doubts no favors. This is just grasping at straws.

 

[samhocking]

Well it appears to be a small white bottle and he appears to squash it down or do something with it before putting it into his rear pocket moments before he crashed and Bramati took it out before putting him on the stretcher. If that's grasping at straws, what is the simple assumption it must be illegal straw? If I were to guess, it's probably Ketone Ester and they don't want yet another debate about something legal from those thinking it should be illegal. They don't need to prove their innocence, they are not being accused of anything with any evidence they need to explain anyway.

 

[Merckx index]

Is a rider with intention of winning or making the podium in a race really going to have a banned substance on his person 40 km from the end of the race? What's he going to do, jettison it later, and hope someone doesn't pick it up as a souvenir?

i think the word "suspicious" is a bad one to use here, because it has a pejorative, guilty-till-proven-innocent, implication. If someone is murdered, and I knew and interacted with the victim, it's possible that I'm the killer. It's possible in a way that it isn't for someone who lives thousands of miles away and wasn't in the area at the time of the murder. The list of possible suspects is narrowed down from billions to some more manageable number. But simply having known and interacted with the victim is not in the slightest bit suspicious--everyone knows and interacts with other people. If i were seen to have a hostile argument with the victim a short time prior to the murder, that would be suspicious. But just having known him? No.

In the same way, there is nothing in the slightest bit suspicious--as that word is usually used--in taking items from the pocket of a crash victim. If there were no such thing as doping, riders never did it, no one would look at items being removed, and ask, why are they doing that? It would be obvious why. Behavior that is quite common in certain circumstances, and that has a perfectly obvious explanation, can't be suspicious.

That doesn't mean one can't be suspicious of Remco for other reasons. Just by virtue of his being a pro rider, many of whom are known to have doped, one can argue that there is some non-trivial probability that he dopes. Further arguments can be made on the basis of his performance. I have no problem with people being suspicious on those grounds. But removing something from his pocket doesn't add anything to that legitimate suspicion. IMO.

 

[roundabout]

He can hand it back to the team car?

 

[Netserk]

Is a rider with intention of winning or making the podium in a race really going to have a banned substance on his person 40 km from the end of the race? What's he going to do, jettison it later, and hope someone doesn't pick it up as a souvenir?

We know for a fact that riders in the past have used banned substances during a race, and I really don't see the risk in it. Do you think riders get searched when they cross the line before they get in contact with their soigneur?

 

[samhocking]

Vayer as always implies nothing with detail other than an explanation for what was taken out the pocket is against the rules and later mentioned 4G which UCI don't allow. Then his buddy Valdery from Strade 2 Roglic's glowing hub fame has alleged it's a 4G modem that hacks into rivals ANT+ / Bluetooth data to send back to the team car who then then uses this data to decide race strategy and control Remco's motor. Valdery said he is working on a big motor / 4G story that wil come out in winter, so don't be surprised this is all simply Vayer & Valdery with another motor documentary, but now with 4G hacking of rivals live data.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

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ekstrabladet.dk

It's stuff like this that does all the reasonble doubts no favors. This is just grasping at straws.

Yeah? You can clearly see him putting it in his pocket. This is +/- 90 seconds before the crash. Are you saying Bramati removed something else and left this in there, before having Remco strapped to the stretcher? It is very likely this item that is caught on camera, and about as far as grasping at straws as possible, without being 100% sure.

What is grasping at straws, is the original video implying it is an illegal substance. Thàt, is grasping at straws. Strange that you didn't comment on that.

 

[F_Cance]

UCI onderzoekt wat Bramati uit Remco Evenepoels zak haalde na val in Lombardije | sporza

De UCI is een onderzoek gestart naar de val van Remco Evenepoel in de Ronde van Lombardije. Niet naar de veiligheid in de afdaling, maar naar het object dat uit de zak van Evenepoel werd gehaald door Davide Bramati.

sporza.be

 

[BlueRoads]

This looks a bit ridiculous to me. I can very well imagine that Evenepoel, on top of all his talent, dopes. I have even at times thought about the possibility of QS riders being doped without them knowing exactly what they get. But that is all speculation and the fact that Bramati removed something from his pockets is in no way a hint for me.
(Most of the doping will take place during altitude camps and in rehab anyway, at least outside of the race.)
I find Bramati's explanation totally understandable and what I would have thought anyway. And I'm one of the last persons in this forum who can be called an Evenepoel fan. I still fear for coming times when he could dominate everything to death. But there are other things that make me suspicious when it comes to the possibility of rider's doping, not something his DS took out of his pockets.

 

[Poursuivant]

Absolutely embarrassing this.

 

[Ted Striker]

Vayer as always implies nothing with detail other than an explanation for what was taken out the pocket is against the rules and later mentioned 4G which UCI don't allow. Then his buddy Valdery from Strade 2 Roglic's glowing hub fame has alleged it's a 4G modem that hacks into rivals ANT+ / Bluetooth data to send back to the team car who then then uses this data to decide race strategy and control Remco's motor. Valdery said he is working on a big motor / 4G story that wil come out in winter, so don't be surprised this is all simply Vayer & Valdery with another motor documentary, but now with 4G hacking of rivals live data.

In other words Vayer is a ***

 

[luckyboy]

Only 'bad' thing I can imagine a rider taking during a race is a 'finisher bottle' as described here - https://cyclingtips.com/2018/03/time-finally-ban-tramadol-cycling-pharmacists-view/

Tramadol banned though, obviously, and it's hard to imagine a rider taking actual banned substances in the middle of a race..

CN article says Bramati took a jar of sugars from his pocket. That sounds like sugar or glucose tablets. More plausible than some EPO or whatever people are trying to think..

 

[samhocking]

Lappartient's now asked for CADF to investigate Bramati & Remco. Admittedly it seems to be Lappartient is concerned why Bramati said he thought somthing had happened because Remco's data had stopped. Depending on what data, Remco could be in trouble as cellular data is banned under UCI regulations. I'm not even sure GPS location can be known without a cellular connection, but might be wrong.

 

[Parker]

Vayer as always implies nothing with detail other than an explanation for what was taken out the pocket is against the rules and later mentioned 4G which UCI don't allow. Then his buddy Valdery from Strade 2 Roglic's glowing hub fame has alleged it's a 4G modem that hacks into rivals ANT+ / Bluetooth data to send back to the team car who then then uses this data to decide race strategy and control Remco's motor. Valdery said he is working on a big motor / 4G story that wil come out in winter, so don't be surprised this is all simply Vayer & Valdery with another motor documentary, but now with 4G hacking of rivals live data.

This is a load of nonsense. Anyone could look at live data on the Velon website. You can see Evenepoel's Velon transmitter under the saddle when his bike is by the bridge wall. I assume it partially uses 4G, although anyone has tried to get 4G reception in rural areas will see the obvious problem here.

Lappartient's now asked for CADF to investigate Bramati & Remco. Admittedly it seems to be Lappartient is concerned why Bramati said he thought somthing had happened because Remco's data had stopped. Depending on what data, Remco could be in trouble as cellular data is banned under UCI regulations. I'm not even sure GPS location can be known without a cellular connection, but might be wrong.

This data like this was available to all live during the race. All Lappartient is concerned about is deflecting criticism of UCI's safety record on his watch.

 

[JosephK]

From what I'm reading, the focus seems to be on whether Remco had illegal technology which would/could have been used for banned types of data transmission/communication during the race. Banned substances seems like a more remote possibility. It seems unlikely that a rider would take PEDs during a race which would show up in post-race testing. -- Not saying anyone is clean (I wouldn't be surprised if all sorts of rules are bent/broken during training periods). -- However, if a team/rider would take a PED during a race that is not tested for, then that's another kettle of fish. I recall in the past when posters on the forum had fun with Chris Froome and his inhaler.

 

[Parker]

From what I'm reading, the focus seems to be on whether Remco had illegal technology which would/could have been used for banned types of data transmission/communication during the race.

But what data is there to transmit that isn't already going to Velon?

 

[JosephK]

But what data is there to transmit that isn't already going to Velon?

I'm not advocating for or against Remco's innocence, just parroting sections of articles, which were not very specific. If the issue were connected with pharma doping, one would think that something would have already been confirmed by blood tests (if available). And at this point, it's probably not too hard for the DS to come up with an explanation about the small object that doesn't imply guilt. So testimony from other parties would probably be needed. -- If I had to guess what will happen, I'm thinking not much. If the worst case scenario played out, Quickstep could still afford Froome's lawyer(s) if needed, I am guessing. Maybe there would be a settlement: Remco suspended for remainder of the 2020 season.

 

[samhocking]

Cellular data is banned under UCI rules. For Bramati to say he was aware Remco had crashed because his data stopped, is a concern. there should be no data connection between rider and car other than radio. Even GPS (Garmin livetracker) needs cellular data, you can't just know data. Hopefully just a translation issue or Bramati is referring to race data public already.

 

[Parker]

Cellular data is banned under UCI rules. For Bramati to say he was aware Remco had crashed because his data stopped, is a concern. there should be no data connection between rider and car other than radio. Even GPS (Garmin livetracker) needs cellular data, you can't just know data. Hopefully just a translation issue or Bramati is referring to race data public already.

He doesn't need communication between the rider and car. He can look at the data from the Velon website on his phone or iPad the same as anyone else. They probably monitor other teams' riders too. They have all the data that you'd want.

Also is it really banned? I can't see any rule about it. Rule 1.3.024 seems to cover this and allows more or less anything. It seems daft if the information is publicly available.

 

[luckyboy]

The rule is vague, like every UCI rule we look up when anything controversial happens.

Devices which transmit data like GPS units, transponders or video cameras are allowed. But "Any and all data stemming from a rider’s onboard technology equipment must not be transmitted during a race to a third person."

So does a team car count as a third person? I wouldn't think so.


About Evenepoel and the 'item', I rewatched from Sormano onwards and there's a feed zone at top. Riders take bags and bottles, and Evenepoel takes a white bidon then drinks from it and puts it in his pocket... In his Net Nieuwsblad column, Lefevere says it was a typical bidon for a finale with Coke or Red Bull or caffeine.

 

[Parker]

The rule is vague, like every UCI rule we look up when anything controversial happens.

Devices which transmit data like GPS units, transponders or video cameras are allowed. But "Any and all data stemming from a rider’s onboard technology equipment must not be transmitted during a race to a third person."

So does a team car count as a third person? I wouldn't think so.

Exactly. It's very vague. I'd have thought a DS would be a second person. And Velon would be the third person. It wouldn't surprise me if Lappartient doesn't know his own organisation's rules. Politicians who haven't got a clue but give credence to social media conspiracies to deflect from their own failings are quite fashionable these days.

 

[gregrowlerson]

It's stuff like this that does all the reasonble doubts no favors. This is just grasping at straws.

It was the delete forum button.

Case closed.

 

[joe_papp]

This looks a bit ridiculous to me. I can very well imagine that Evenepoel, on top of all his talent, dopes. I have even at times thought about the possibility of QS riders being doped without them knowing exactly what they get. But that is all speculation...

Doesn't this just seem like Lappartient trying to mute possible negative coverage of pro cycling (and the UCI) and appear resolute by [injudiciously!] encouraging CADF to investigate Evenpoel? Like, it's politically more expedient for him to announce they've compiled a dossier on a grievously injured rider than try to squelch social media semi-hysterics that have already been amplified by mostly legitimate press?

 

[JosephK]

Lefevere seems pretty adamant that the object in question is a small bidon -- like, one of those little ones that you see riders tossing down from time to time (e.g., "5 Hour Energy" size). They hold a shot or two of energy drink (caffeine/sugar boost). With the video footage of Remco doing just that moments before the crash, it sounds like a plausible explanation.