• The Cycling News forum is still looking to add volunteer moderators with. If you're interested in helping keep our discussions on track, send a direct message to @SHaines here on the forum, or use the Contact Us form to message the Community Team.

    In the meanwhile, please use the Report option if you see a post that doesn't fit within the forum rules.

    Thanks!

Ricco's Girlfriend positive for CERA

Page 9 - Get up to date with the latest news, scores & standings from the Cycling News Community.
Jun 12, 2009
192
1
8,835
This is too funny. Serves Ricco right to be such a *** and dump his girlfriend and mother of his child for a reason that may not be a good one after all.
 
Apr 9, 2009
976
0
0
**Uru** said:
This is too funny. Serves Ricco right to be such a *** and dump his girlfriend and mother of his child for a reason that may not be a good one after all.

Not that it was a good one in the first place.
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
hmmm, id wait before entertaining any conspiracy.

there could be a bunch of real circumstances causing the non-conformance.

i checked some probable facts effecting the conformance and they stand as follows.

(i) the test for cera is a totally new test for the rome wada lab. they may be learning the ropes.
(ii) if they analyzed urine sample in stead of blood (and i found no references to blood sample even on coni's own site) it would be an expected inconclusive result. just as for lndd at the time of cera test introduction in 2008 when they tested ricco's urine like 6 or 7 times before they got him. not much cera leaks into urine via the kidneys. too big of a molecule.
(iii) sample storage irregularities may cause some shifts in electrophoresis images. that is, basic isoforms vs. acidic

someone mentioned pregnancy...no, she was tested 6 months after she delivered.
 
Jun 18, 2009
281
0
0
python said:
(i) the test for cera is a totally new test for the rome wada lab. they may be learning the ropes.

According to the CN article:

"CONI confirmed that the results of both the A and B sample analyses had been verified by the WADA-approved laboratory in Chatenay-Malabry, France. CONI's prosecutor will re-examine the case before deciding what further action can be taken"

Not quite sure what to make of that.
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
RTMcFadden said:
According to the CN article:

"CONI confirmed that the results of both the A and B sample analyses had been verified by the WADA-approved laboratory in Chatenay-Malabry, France. CONI's prosecutor will re-examine the case before deciding what further action can be taken"

Not quite sure what to make of that.
in your previous multiple posts you referred to WADA standards and procedures.

so if you check the one for epo, you'll see that wada recommends an independent verification by another lab. this refers to interpreting of the electropherogramm images. iow, lndd got the plots and confirmed the rome's lab reading in accordance with the wada criteria. means nothing about sample handling, testing, prepping by the rome lab. this was done dozens of times in in some case (like mayo's) even 3-4 labs got involved.
 
python said:
hmmm, id wait before entertaining any conspiracy.

there could be a bunch of real circumstances causing the non-conformance.

i checked some probable facts effecting the conformance and they stand as follows.

(i) the test for cera is a totally new test for the rome wada lab. they may be learning the ropes.
(ii) if they analyzed urine sample in stead of blood (and i found no references to blood sample even on coni's own site) it would be an expected inconclusive result. just as for lndd at the time of cera test introduction in 2008 when they tested ricco's urine like 6 or 7 times before they got him. not much cera leaks into urine via the kidneys. too big of a molecule.
(iii) sample storage irregularities may cause some shifts in electrophoresis images. that is, basic isoforms vs. acidic

(iii.b) The A sample was close to and just over the threshold for declaring a non-negative. The B sample came in just under the threshold.

I think the testers are currently claiming that the CERA in the urine sample degraded quicker than expected and a slight non-negative in the A sample became a slight negative in the B sample.
 
Dec 18, 2009
164
0
0
At the time of the competition and test, Rossi was the partner of Riccardo Riccò, and she is the mother of her son.

That's stellar investigative journalism CN, however did you find that out. *snickers*
 
BroDeal said:
(iii.b) The A sample was close to and just over the threshold for declaring a non-negative. The B sample came in just under the threshold.

I think the testers are currently claiming that the CERA in the urine sample degraded quicker than expected and a slight non-negative in the A sample became a slight negative in the B sample.

This is why the testing threshold sucks. How is there a threshold for something the body doesn't produce? :confused:
 
May 6, 2009
8,522
1
0
So how does this work? Do the CERA level's in Rossi's urine just enough in the A sample to make her test positive for CERA, but when the B sample is taken, it is not conclusive (ie borderline)?

Anybody remember Fabrizio Guidi (when he was riding for Phonak)? His A sample came back positive for EPO, but his B sample cleared him. That's the only other example I can think of.
 
Aug 6, 2009
1,901
1
0
luckyboy said:
This is why the testing threshold sucks. How is there a threshold for something the body doesn't produce? :confused:
I have a limited background in Biochemistry, but I'm not an expert and I don't know anything about CERA-testing in particular. The way this usually works though, is that you have a detection agent that reacts with CERA and colours the sample, gives a crystalline product or somehow else allows you to detect it. The problem is that there might be other things that reacts with the detection agent, which would justify a testing threshold.

Now someone who actually knows how CERA testing works can come along and explain that I'm an idiot.
 
craig1985 said:
So how does this work? Do the CERA level's in Rossi's urine just enough in the A sample to make her test positive for CERA, but when the B sample is taken, it is not conclusive (ie borderline)?

Anybody remember Fabrizio Guidi (when he was riding for Phonak)? His A sample came back positive for EPO, but his B sample cleared him. That's the only other example I can think of.

There are other examples. Marion Jones is one that comes to mind, she had a non-negative A sample for EPO, then a negative B. After the B result was announced she said "I have always maintained that I have never ever taken performance enhancing drugs, and I am pleased that a scientific process has now demonstrated that fact." Of course we now know that she was using EPO, so it wasn't testing error but rather the A must have been just over threshold and the B just under. Don't forget that in threshold testing there is generally a very large margin of error in favor of the athlete so even being close to the threshold is a sure sign of doping.
 
Jun 16, 2009
3,035
0
0
Susan Westemeyer said:
Velonation has a funny bit in their story: "Of significance to today’s news is the fact that Rossi is the partner of Italian rider Riccardo Riccò, and the father of his son."

Susan

are you aware that today's CyclingNews article about her B sample being negative refers to her as being Ricco's partner and mother of HER son?

LOL
 
Sep 25, 2009
7,527
1
0
my hunch in the post #200 that it was rossi’s urine (as opposed to blood) sample was confirmed this morning in la gazzetta.

the director of the laboratory performing the analysis explained that cera in the b sample (by my calculation b was tested some 6-7 weeks after the a sample) degraded faster than they’ve expected. this resulted in weaker signal insufficient to meet the strict wada positivity criteria. he cautioned "it does not mean there was no cera in the b sample".

what’s next ?

the coni antidoping prosecutor warned rossi is not off the hook yet and they are considering their next step.

what could it be ?

i recon, if they happened to have her blood sample from around 10 january in good storage, they could ask afld or the swiss to test it. alternatively, they can retest the a-sample if enough urine was left . i doubt either option will pan out and vania will walk.

the lesson for wada is likely in better understanding of urine proteases that may have degraded cera in the b sample or just scrap the urine cera test and stick with the much more reliable blood test.
 
craig1985 said:
So how does this work? Do the CERA level's in Rossi's urine just enough in the A sample to make her test positive for CERA, but when the B sample is taken, it is not conclusive (ie borderline)?

Anybody remember Fabrizio Guidi (when he was riding for Phonak)? His A sample came back positive for EPO, but his B sample cleared him. That's the only other example I can think of.
Didn't Iban Mayó's B sample come back as being inconclusive when he tested positive to EPO in 2007?
 
valentius borealis said:
Didn't Iban Mayó's B sample come back as being inconclusive when he tested positive to EPO in 2007?

I believe that it initially did, but some how they get testing him and ended up suspending him although I don't think that the Spanish federation agreed with it.

By the way, that is one of my pet peeves with this testing process. The head of the lab in Rome already stated that the A sample was conclusvie enough, so of course you have to think that they would attribute the failure to find proof to some sort of error. I imagine that just like Mayo they will test something else and within a month or two announce that Rossi is positive after all. However, when a rider challenges the testing process, they have no source of winning. It's just very inconsistent and they need to find some way to resolve it.
 
Highlander said:
I believe that it initially did, but some how they get testing him and ended up suspending him although I don't think that the Spanish federation agreed with it.

By the way, that is one of my pet peeves with this testing process. The head of the lab in Rome already stated that the A sample was conclusvie enough, so of course you have to think that they would attribute the failure to find proof to some sort of error. I imagine that just like Mayo they will test something else and within a month or two announce that Rossi is positive after all. However, when a rider challenges the testing process, they have no source of winning. It's just very inconsistent and they need to find some way to resolve it.
Mayo's case was different because the B sample was tested in Barcelona lab, somehow. But then it was resent to the Châtenay-Malabry in Paris, who confirmed that the B sample was positive. All had to do with differences in procedures used in the France Lab as compared with the Barcelona Lab. Here is the note from Wikipedia:

In 2007 Mayo rode for Saunier Duval-Prodir, taking his first Giro d'Italia stage win. On July 30, 2007, the UCI confirmed he had failed a test for EPO during the Tour de France, which he finished 16th .[2] On October 22, the Spanish federation cleared Mayo after a second test proved negative.[3] The UCI president Pat McQuaid stopped short of clearing the rider, pending further tests.[4] On December 19, a French laboratory confirmed the positive test.[5] In 2008, the Court of Arbitration for Sport upheld Mayo's two year's ban, which ended on 31 July 2009.[6]

This case looks different because of the degrading of the CERA in the B sample made the test result fell below the threshold. It took more than 2 months to perform the B sample. It looks like there is a flaw in the testing procedure for the B sample because of the time lag. The Rome lab already notified WADA of this irregularity. It is in the CN article.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/rossi-still-facing-investigation-for-possible-cera-use

On other news Ricco got inspired today in the Settimana Ciclistica Lombarda and won the stage.
 
May 6, 2009
8,522
1
0
From what I understand (I think thehog said it) is that Mayo is not interested in racing professionally again, he still rides with a bunch, and he has a normal job.
 

DAOTEC

BANNED
Jun 16, 2009
3,171
0
0
Friday, June 04, 2010

Vania Rossi could be back to racing soon, expects to be vindicated from doping charges

Rossi's B-sample subsequently yielded a "non-positive" result, marking the first time that a second test for CERA did not confirm the initial findings.

"The minimum levels have not been found [in the B-Sample] that are required to meet the criteria for the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA)," the Italian Olympic Committee said at the beginning of April, according to Tuttobiciweb.

Francesco Botrè, the director of the anti-doping laboratory in Rome, told La Gazzetta dello Sport, "This does not mean that the B sample that was recently tested did not have the substance present

"We hope that this nightmare ends soon," Rossi told Tuttobiciweb. "Now I expect some of the people that attacked me in the newspapers to apologize." More: http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/4425/Vania-Rossi-could-be-back-to-racing-soon-expects-to-be-vindicated-from-doping-charges.aspx
 
May 9, 2009
583
0
0
This is exactly why absolutely no news should be leaked until the B sample has been tested. Yeah, they can excuse it by saying stuff about it doesn't mean the B sample was "clean" blah blah blah, but the fact remains that the Rossi is/was not in violation of the rules!
 

DAOTEC

BANNED
Jun 16, 2009
3,171
0
0
Off the hook ?

Today CONI doping prosecutor requested the filing of disciplinary proceedings against athlete Vania Rossi (registered with the FCI - Company CS Army) under '
Art. 2, paragraph 10 of Appendix C of the Sports Anti-Doping Rules,
Pending the lack of confirmation of positivity for CERA.

showimg.php


http://www.tuttobiciweb.it/index.php?page=news&cod=31356&tp=n