Richie makes his Clinic debut...

[Dr. Maserati]

He certainly suggested they had. A high hct is only an indicator, Hayles might have hit 50.3 but had no positive tests. Plenty of people could hit that by altitude training.

No - Libertine Segurous didn't, he never mentioned the word 'positive'.

As for Hayles - was he altitude training? (Answer: No)
He recorded that HCT at a track event - maybe he stayed high up the banking for too many laps.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

An amateur.

A doped amateur.

The Cq statistics offered has 265 riders from the GB, I am going to take a wild guess that they are not all Pro's.

 

[Sasquatch]

Cadel Evans is clean etc. etc. etc....You absolutely sure all the top guys dope??

.

Cadel is dirty. If the UCI were doing their job properly, they would catch out Cadel/BMC, but they aren't focused on that because if Cadel goes down, so does Australian cycling.

 

[Sasquatch]

Hushovd clean, Cuddles clean? where do you get this? Hushovd maybe since hes a sprinte but you cant know that for sure.

Weve been over this before. I say all the top guys dope because the days of a few amphetimines to wake you up in the morning are over. We know ALL the top guys from the 90's until at least 2006 or 7 were doping. All of them.

Now ONCE again (its getting tiring) cycling like all sports claims to have turned the page. Claims there is no doping, just like after Festina. "you shouldnt have believed us the previous 1 million times we said it was clean, but this time, we promise its all clean. Honest".

We know from Kohl and Landis its easy to not get caught. We know dopers like Basso, Valverde, Frank Schleck never failed a test. Contador never failed one until a very slight slip up this year, and Landis was doing it for years without getting caught. And Kohl was doing it for years without getting caught.And most importantly we know the benefits of the drugs are huge. 30% according to science of sport. You really believe that all the good guys -Nibali, Evans, Menchov, Contador are beating doped to the gills bad guys, Mosquera, Kohl, Di Luca, Ricco, in gts by staying clean.

Despite all we know about how easy it is to get away, how all the top guys have been doping for years, and how big the benefit of drugs is, are you really that sure Cuddles is clean?



And he was a lot younger. Id say age is more important than years as a pro. Vino didnt stay the same age when he got a 2 year ban.

Schleck hadnt any great results. Porte had just won a Romandie tt and was Australian so got twice as much hype for it as a an italian or spaniard would



Considering his recent gt results, thats very plausible

Precisely. You will only get caught if you slip up.

 

[Monte Zoncolon]

Swiss rider Thomas Frei, formerly of BMC is Banned for two Year's after testing positive for EPO in March of 2010.

 

[Monte Zoncolon]

[/QUOTE]

Swiss cyclist Thomas Frei, formerly of BMC is banned for two Year's after testing positive for EPO, in an out of competition test in March of 2010.

 

[thehog]

Australian cyclist Stephen Hines has today been banned for two years for attempted use of the drug clenbuterol – 2010.

 

[thehog]

Australian cyclist Stephen Hines has today been banned for two years for attempted use of the drug clenbuterol – 2010.

Mark Roland, an Australian cyclist, has been suspended for two years for using human growth hormone by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority

 

[thehog]

Mark Roland, an Australian cyclist, has been suspended for two years for using human growth hormone by the Australian Sports Anti-Doping Authority

And the entire Australia track team with over 8 positives. There's a lot lot lot of dope in Australian cycling.

 

[D-Queued]

And the entire Australia track team with over 8 positives. There's a lot lot lot of dope in Australian cycling.

Another dope on the way I hear.

Dave.

 

[Mellow Velo]

He certainly suggested they had. A high hct is only an indicator, Hayles might have hit 50.3 but had no positive tests. Plenty of people could hit that by altitude training.

Quit quoting me.
I only addressed Millar from LS's original quote, not Hayles.
I made this crystal clear by using Millar's name in bold print, not to mention the fact that I only spoke of his admission.

You also seem unable to grasp what Dr M has pointed out.

 

[WonderLance]

reading the thread title i thought this guy had gone pos.

 

[skidmark]

I'm inclined to give Porte the benefit of the doubt on the first part of his statement, ie. that he doesn't dope. I'm not of the belief that you need to dope just to ride in the ProTour; the 'it's either this or go back to painting houses' explanation doesn't seem to me to be accurate right now, if it really ever was that extreme (I've always taken that to be a bit of hyperbole to emphasize the point of how prevalent doping was). Also, it seems to me that the simplest explanation can often be the right one, and the simplest explanation is that he'd speak so strongly about not doping because he is not. Although I don't know the context of the interview, I don't think he really needs to defend himself about doping, for years the norm was either ignoring talking about it or sweeping it under the rug. So I'm inclined to wonder why he would speak so strongly (using swears and everything!) about it if he couldn't back it up.

That said, I of course wouldn't be shocked or disappointed if I found out evidence to the contrary at some point.

As for the second part of his statement, about 'clean countries' and 'it's getting better', those seem to me like somewhat ignorant, mostly defensive statements from someone who is sick of encountering people whose knowledge of cycling starts with the fact that it's a sport famous for dope. I think it's ludicrous to talk about certain countries and whether or not their morals cause them to dope more or less; I DO think there is a cultural difference with regards to dope between, say, Italy and the USA, but I think that only changes the way in which athletes try to cover up their doping, not whether or not they choose to dope in the first place.

 

[forumlurker]

so pro road cycling is supposed to be cleaner because he says he is clean?

well jeez. that is good enough for me. i'm convinced.

 

[online-rider]

..........................................Rogers having worked with Ferrari in the past doesn't necessarily mean he's still doping. Consider that he won the worlds 3 times when receiving "training plans" from Dr. F but was 4.2% (in time) behind Spartacus in that race...............................

"I'm getting a little bit sick of this stuff," Rogers said after being asked another question about the effect of Landis' e-mails, which accused a number of riders including Lance Armstrong and his former US Postal team of doping.

"The sport has got to get away from negativity. Everyone has to pull their weight from the riders to the management to the race organizers, we all have to do everything we can to get away from the doping issue because it's killing the sport."

Rogers may not be doping but if so it still must be explained why he is so blasé about other dopers winning on drugs while he rides clean. Get what i mean?

 

[cathulu]

I would hazard looking at those TT results that Svein Tuft is clean. I believe he is normally a consistently strong TT contender. In a non-doping world I would expect Svein to be closer than 5 minutes off the winning time... maybe a bad day for Svein... maybe not...

 

[D-Queued]

I would hazard looking at those TT results that Svein Tuft is clean. I believe he is normally a consistently strong TT contender. In a non-doping world I would expect Svein to be closer than 5 minutes off the winning time... maybe a bad day for Svein... maybe not...

But didn't he win a medal a year or so ago against a similar field?

The field got dirtier again?

Dave.

 

[Fester]

Granted anti-doping may be inconvenient, but it improves sport.

All must "clean up house"! Because hypocrisy just isn't cool

 

[cathulu]

Hmm well if anybody can say they are clean, I think Svein can. But there was that strong performance at the inaugral 2007 US Open championship - a long solo break if I recall correctly where he held off a determined chase group. They say the weather played into his hands cause he is a Canadian (wasn't it snowing or hailing at one point on the route?), but US gets cold weather also. Still I think that performance was within the realm of credibility.

I think the year of his 2008 TT second place was a weak field with some big guns not in attendance. Perhaps that was a fluke result and if I recall that was the feeling, I don't think anybody figured he would podium. Still I would expect Svein within the top 10 at a TT when he is on - so he would normally be just outside the podium.

Unfortunately, cyclings doping reality cannot be denied, but on the whole Svein looks clean imho and nothing plants a seed of doubt in my mind regarding him.

 

[maltiv]

Unfortunately, cyclings doping reality cannot be denied, but on the whole Svein looks clean imho and nothing plants a seed of doubt in my mind regarding him.

Of course he is clean, he has Norwegian origins!

 

[Ferminal]

Precisely. You will only get caught if you slip up.

Good to see people reinforcing this point.

At least that is the case with the decent programs. You only get caught if you mess up like Landis or Contador, or you get sprung with a new test (Kohl). Armstrong didn't test positive from mid-2001 onwards and he had to be one of the biggest chargers going around.

The lesser guys (like Frei) will be a bit more likely to get caught, but can still be "low-risk" if you listen to Frei's words.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Here's hoping that we'll soon have a British or Australian positive, so this bull**** about clean nations will be over.

I think that there are cleaner nations of which the sporting institutes do more with the athletes to deter them from doping but quoting the words of phil liggett "there are always a few rotten apples".

You tar with a mighty big brush, Sir. You sure you've got the strength to lift it?

Let's see, Hushovd is clean, Cadel Evans is clean etc. etc. etc....You absolutely sure all the top guys dope??

I think Porte is right. It's cleaner than ever, and a new generation establish itself in the top echelon. Clean. That's a good sign.

Hope you've only got a bad hangover from last night's celebrations. 2011 will be a good year.

+1 Good post

 

[The Hitch]

+1 Good post

How so.

The poster claims without evidence he knows for certain Cuddles and Hushovd are clean (considering Cuddles history, a pretty big assumption) then goes completely off base saying that in fact he knows the whole peloton is cleaner (just how he knows this is beyond me) and whats more, that this is a good thing.

To illustrate how wild and silly this post is i will change the subject with a few words

Let's see, Martians exist, Vulcans exist etc. etc. etc....You absolutely sure aliens dont exist???

I think Buzz Lightyear is right. There are more aliens than ever and a new generation establish itself in the top echelon. More. That's a good sign.

He reveals a very low understanding of doping and all but admits that he doesnt understand the belief many in the clinic hold that someone who doesnt test positive isnt neccesarily clean.


Even by clinic standards its one of the poorer posts

 

[simo1733]

Damiano Cunego has a certificate cos of his genetic high hct, because generations of his family have lived at altitude. Rob Hayles is from Portsmouth, which is a city reaching a high point at the mind-blowing altitude of 7m above sea level.

How many Italians and Spaniards are there in the pro péloton relative to the number of Australian, British and Danish riders?

In 2009, 1/6 of all the Britons in the ProTour had admitted to using EPO. Look, I can take a fact and make it misleading too!

If you have to use Hayles a 2 week suspension for high hematocrit as evidence of how doping in Britain is just as just as bad as Spain ,then it is pretty lame.
Interestingly though Hayles never again rode for GB after that incident.

 

[BroDeal]

He certainly suggested they had. A high hct is only an indicator, Hayles might have hit 50.3 but had no positive tests. Plenty of people could hit that by altitude training.

He probably made a mistake and took an elevator to the top of a high building. You know how it happens. You get into an elevator intending to go to the third floor. You reach for the "3" button but accidently hit "10". The elevator goes up and--bam!--your hematocrit jumps by eight points. I've seen it happen every day.