Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

[HelloDolly]

Re:

Dennis was hurt pretty bad from the crash in the Giro and wasn't of much assistance to Caruso in the Tour de Suisse. We'll see if he's fit in time for the Vuelta.

I think the key for Porte is to avoid mishaps in the flats. He can keep up with the Sky train in the mountains.

If Dennis was that badly hurt he would NOT have won 2 stages of TdSuisse ? Anyone can see that ? He stormed 2 stages

So you expect Porte to follow team SKY train in yellow ??? ( as i keep saying the problem is when /if he has yellow ...which he has to take pretty early as his form may dip)
In yellow you set the train ....

I think I have said this enough times ...in yellow the team is too week and Porte needs to and will take yellow by the mid point of the Tour ...

Every time I say this ...the answer is to have a discussion about what such and such a rider will do at the Vuelta ...who cares about Dennis at the Vuelta ? ...except maybe Dennis or SAMU at the Vuelta except maybe SAMU
They wont win or podium...

BMC seem to me to be throwing away a chance to win the Tour to keep a load of primadonnas happy

I hope it works out for Porte but if I were him I don't think Id be too happy that some of the strongest riders in the team have not CHOSEN to ride for me or are riding with their own ambitions and the team has not made them either ....

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Dennis was hurt pretty bad from the crash in the Giro and wasn't of much assistance to Caruso in the Tour de Suisse. We'll see if he's fit in time for the Vuelta.

I think the key for Porte is to avoid mishaps in the flats. He can keep up with the Sky train in the mountains.

If Dennis was that badly hurt he would NOT have won 2 stages of TdSuisse ? Anyone can see that ? He stormed 2 stages

So you expect Porte to follow team SKY train in yellow ??? ( as i keep saying the problem is when /if he has yellow ...which he has to take pretty early as his form may dip)
In yellow you set the train ....

I think I have said this enough times ...in yellow the team is too week and Porte needs to and will take yellow by the mid point of the Tour ...

Every time I say this ...the answer is to have a discussion about what such and such a rider will do at the Vuelta ...who cares about Dennis at the Vuelta ? ...except maybe Dennis or SAMU at the Vuelta except maybe SAMU
They wont win or podium...

BMC seem to me to be throwing away a chance to win the Tour to keep a load of primadonnas happy

I hope it works out for Porte but if I were him I don't think Id be too happy that some of the strongest riders in the team have not CHOSEN to ride for me or are riding with their own ambitions and the team has not made them either ....

You have to be realistic about GVA. In the form he has been in and his results in the last 12 months or so, every team would be letting him stage hunt. Remains to be seen how much support he will give, hopefully a lot. As for the others I don't know if they would be the difference between winning and losing the Tour. The main thing is to be consistent and that includes the team. If Porte can climb and TT the way he has been doing recently and maintain that form he has to have a good shot at the yellow. I am sure Froome will be better than he was a few weeks ago. The big question regarding his rivals will be how Quintana backs up after the Giro. Movistar sound pretty confident.

 

[Lexman]

I'm still curious to see if Porte can handle the pressure of a 3 week GT, in Dauphiné he handled it ok on the last day (although he lost) but he did a great climb, but to do that during 3 weeks...

I fear he'll get a a bad day...or get caught out on a flat(ter) stage...

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I'm still curious to see if Porte can handle the pressure of a 3 week GT, in Dauphiné he handled it ok on the last day (although he lost) but he did a great climb, but to do that during 3 weeks...

I fear he'll get a a bad day...or get caught out on a flat(ter) stage...

He handled it much better last year. I think that ride will be a confidence booster for Porte and the tean plus his form this year obviously.

 

[hazaran]

It's the Tour, stages like that generally don't happen. They particularly don't happen on a Tour where 11 stages are suitable for Sagan and he comes with a whole team with no other ambition but carrying him to the end of all those stages with no escapists out in front.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

I'm still curious to see if Porte can handle the pressure of a 3 week GT, in Dauphiné he handled it ok on the last day (although he lost) but he did a great climb, but to do that during 3 weeks...

I fear he'll get a a bad day...or get caught out on a flat(ter) stage...

He handled it much better last year. I think that ride will be a confidence booster for Porte and the tean plus his form this year obviously.

Last year, he didn't have the dirty great big fat target painted on his back that both his form has suggested and his chief rival's have sought to place upon him. Do not think that they will not seek to apply the blow-torch to his belly wherever and whenever they feel it appropriate ...... and his "they were all a bunch of big meanies !!" whine post Dauphine still hints that he remains very vulnerable mentally. Sadly, I feel a Richie meltdown is a fair betting proposition.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I'm still curious to see if Porte can handle the pressure of a 3 week GT, in Dauphiné he handled it ok on the last day (although he lost) but he did a great climb, but to do that during 3 weeks...

I fear he'll get a a bad day...or get caught out on a flat(ter) stage...

He handled it much better last year. I think that ride will be a confidence booster for Porte and the tean plus his form this year obviously.

Last year, he didn't have the dirty great big fat target painted on his back that both his form has suggested and his chief rival's have sought to place upon him. Do not think that they will not seek to apply the blow-torch to his belly wherever and whenever they feel it appropriate ...... and his "they were all a bunch of big meanies !!" whine post Dauphine still hints that he remains very vulnerable mentally. Sadly, I feel a Richie meltdown is a fair betting proposition.

I'm sure they will be conscious of it but so will BMC especially on descents but Dumoulin showed that getting isolated isn't always game over but then Dumoulin is a better TT rider than Porte. Dumoulin now has shown what he can do in a GT, Porte in the form of his career now has the opportunity to if not win then at least make the podium and show that he can put it together for three weeks, mentally and physically. With Quintana having done the Giro and Froome looking a little more vulnerable than usual and with big question marks around every other rider hoping for a top five or 10 finish, like Stephen K in the 2016 Giro, he may never get as good an opportunity again to win a GT or Tour.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

I'm still curious to see if Porte can handle the pressure of a 3 week GT, in Dauphiné he handled it ok on the last day (although he lost) but he did a great climb, but to do that during 3 weeks...

I fear he'll get a a bad day...or get caught out on a flat(ter) stage...

He handled it much better last year. I think that ride will be a confidence booster for Porte and the tean plus his form this year obviously.

Last year, he didn't have the dirty great big fat target painted on his back that both his form has suggested and his chief rival's have sought to place upon him. Do not think that they will not seek to apply the blow-torch to his belly wherever and whenever they feel it appropriate ...... and his "they were all a bunch of big meanies !!" whine post Dauphine still hints that he remains very vulnerable mentally. Sadly, I feel a Richie meltdown is a fair betting proposition.

I'm sure they will be conscious of it but so will BMC especially on descents but Dumoulin showed that getting isolated isn't always game over but then Dumoulin is a better TT rider than Porte. Dumoulin now has shown what he can do in a GT, Porte in the form of his career now has the opportunity to if not win then at least make the podium and show that he can put it together for three weeks, mentally and physically. With Quintana having done the Giro and Froome looking a little more vulnerable than usual and with big question marks around every other rider hoping for a top five or 10 finish, like Stephen K in the 2016 Giro, he may never get as good an opportunity again to win a GT or Tour.

Dumoulin is not only a stronger and more consistent TTer; I would also suggest he's stronger mentally with even his 2015 Vuelta fall-away on stg 20 nothing like the scope of Richie's meltdowns.

Yes, I will grant you that Froome looks more vulnerable than the past couple of years and other contenders have their own very real question marks. I just feel that for all of Porte's physical capacities and current great form; his greatest barrier to ever winning a GT lies between his ears ...... on the scores of both composure under pressure and overall intelligence as a rider. Having a big bleat post Daupine merely advertised his vulnerabilities.

Another Aussie will one day win a GT ..... just don't see Richie being that man, no matter how much certain sectors of the AUS cycling commentariat seek to pump up his tyres.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I'm still curious to see if Porte can handle the pressure of a 3 week GT, in Dauphiné he handled it ok on the last day (although he lost) but he did a great climb, but to do that during 3 weeks...

I fear he'll get a a bad day...or get caught out on a flat(ter) stage...

He handled it much better last year. I think that ride will be a confidence booster for Porte and the tean plus his form this year obviously.

Last year, he didn't have the dirty great big fat target painted on his back that both his form has suggested and his chief rival's have sought to place upon him. Do not think that they will not seek to apply the blow-torch to his belly wherever and whenever they feel it appropriate ...... and his "they were all a bunch of big meanies !!" whine post Dauphine still hints that he remains very vulnerable mentally. Sadly, I feel a Richie meltdown is a fair betting proposition.

I'm sure they will be conscious of it but so will BMC especially on descents but Dumoulin showed that getting isolated isn't always game over but then Dumoulin is a better TT rider than Porte. Dumoulin now has shown what he can do in a GT, Porte in the form of his career now has the opportunity to if not win then at least make the podium and show that he can put it together for three weeks, mentally and physically. With Quintana having done the Giro and Froome looking a little more vulnerable than usual and with big question marks around every other rider hoping for a top five or 10 finish, like Stephen K in the 2016 Giro, he may never get as good an opportunity again to win a GT or Tour.

Dumoulin is not only a stronger and more consistent TTer; I would also suggest he's stronger mentally with even his 2015 Vuelta fall-away on stg 20 nothing like the scope of Richie's meltdowns.

Yes, I will grant you that Froome looks more vulnerable than the past couple of years and other contenders have their own very real question marks. I just feel that for all of Porte's physical capacities and current great form; his greatest barrier to ever winning a GT lies between his ears ...... on the scores of both composure under pressure and overall intelligence as a rider. Having a big bleat post Daupine merely advertised his vulnerabilities.

Another Aussie will one day win a GT ..... just don't see Richie being that man, no matter how much certain sectors of the AUS cycling commentariat seek to pump up his tyres.

I noticed that Cadel thinks that Porte can win it but he also had some reservations about his long season so far. But Cadel being an Aussie and from BMC as well means he is giving Richie a push along publicly and there is
nothing wrong with that. I actually think that this could be an unpredictable race with a route that is not a typical one and minimal TT kms. But if Froome finds his regular July form it could look like business as usual. Even so I think the battle for second and third will be hard fought as it was last year. Roche seems to think that Porte has grown as a team leader.

 

[hfer07]

LRP looks mean!!!

He's got everything and anything in place to be fighting for yellow in Paris- the question is: will he deliver?

 

[Tigerion]

Well in Porte's advantage this year is no attempt to fit a TVG leadership role into the team. Missing support early days hurts as the team try to support 2 people. Might still have some issues with GVA but I don't think there are many stages that he should target or if he does it should be as a solo breakaway rider and not impact porte much

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Well in Porte's advantage this year is no attempt to fit a TVG leadership role into the team. Missing support early days hurts as the team try to support 2 people. Might still have some issues with GVA but I don't think there are many stages that he should target or if he does it should be as a solo breakaway rider and not impact porte much

i don't think it's going to hurt. At least the stress levels will be down a little and the constant comparisons by the press between both riders. It was telling that when TJVG started to lose time in last year's Tour he collapsed quickly and didn't even offer much as a domestique for Porte. For all of the talk about Porte's mental toughness TJVG is a lot worse.

 

[Katabatic]

Hard to say if TJVG has bad 'mental toughness' or if he's just not physically built to last 3 weeks. Either way, he's a far lesser rider to Porte that the comparison can't really be made.

 

[Leinster]

Re:

Hard to say if TJVG has bad 'mental toughness' or if he's just not physically built to last 3 weeks. Either way, he's a far lesser rider to Porte that the comparison can't really be made.

At the same stage of Porte's career you could have said the same about him and more. TJ is 4 years younger, and has equaled Porte's best ever GT finish twice. It's only in the last 5 years (since his move to Sky) that Porte has won much, or at all.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

Hard to say if TJVG has bad 'mental toughness' or if he's just not physically built to last 3 weeks. Either way, he's a far lesser rider to Porte that the comparison can't really be made.

At the same stage of Porte's career you could have said the same about him and more. TJ is 4 years younger, and has equaled Porte's best ever GT finish twice. It's only in the last 5 years (since his move to Sky) that Porte has won much, or at all.

Porte was riding as a domestique then and still climbing better than TJVG. It remains to be seen with TJVG who is still young for a GC rider whether he is capable of any further top five finishes or he just becomes a stage hunter and concentrates on the one week races. At the moment it is hard to see TJVG being able to make the podium in any GT. That said this is an important race for Porte, the biggest of his career. He either does what he has threatened to do in the past or he continues along as a top 10 rider with talent but no results of note in GTs. Last year was encouraging but now he has to step it up. He is in his peak years now and his form couldn't be much better.

 

[Katabatic]

Re: Re:

At the same stage of Porte's career you could have said the same about him and more. TJ is 4 years younger, and has equaled Porte's best ever GT finish twice. It's only in the last 5 years (since his move to Sky) that Porte has won much, or at all.

Richie Porte only had 2 years on WT level before moving to Sky. He had a triathlon background and was late to top tier cycling.

4 years ago, in 2013, Porte was destroying Pelotons as Froome's superdomestique. He won Paris-Nice and was second at the Dauphine. His talent was obvious.

Not to mention, Porte has gotten better since his early days in cycling. Tejay's best years were when he was still eligible for the white jersey. Not every rider matures the same.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

At the same stage of Porte's career you could have said the same about him and more. TJ is 4 years younger, and has equaled Porte's best ever GT finish twice. It's only in the last 5 years (since his move to Sky) that Porte has won much, or at all.

Richie Porte only had 2 years on WT level before moving to Sky. He had a triathlon background and was late to top tier cycling.

4 years ago, in 2013, Porte was destroying Pelotons as Froome's superdomestique. He won Paris-Nice and was second at the Dauphine. His talent was obvious.

Not to mention, Porte has gotten better since his early days in cycling. Tejay's best years were when he was still eligible for the white jersey. Not every rider matures the same.

HAS he got better .... other than in the sense of more race experience even if his race smarts remain debateable ?
His climbing has probably been at the same level for the last 4-5 years; we are still yet to find out whether he's over "that one really bad day" syndrome.

For all the touting by some of "Richie the super time triallist", his record remains inconsistent in this discipline. Yes, he won an AUS ITT title (admittedly quite a tough title to win) ... once. At World level, whenever given a ride, he has never remotely challenged a podium spot. On a flat course, he's not at the party against the pure specialists and in GT TTs, he's erratic. A more accurate description would be that he is a rider who on his day, and a favourable course, can mix it with the best but he is not consistent and less at home on technical courses.

Yes, he is most certainly a better value for money rider for a team than TJVG. Richie has at least proven himself capable of being a top line mountain super domestique as well as winning top line WT one weekers. TJVG falls short on both those scores. The similarity lies in that both are arguably found wanting when it comes to bridging to GT podium let alone winning status

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

At the same stage of Porte's career you could have said the same about him and more. TJ is 4 years younger, and has equaled Porte's best ever GT finish twice. It's only in the last 5 years (since his move to Sky) that Porte has won much, or at all.

Richie Porte only had 2 years on WT level before moving to Sky. He had a triathlon background and was late to top tier cycling.

4 years ago, in 2013, Porte was destroying Pelotons as Froome's superdomestique. He won Paris-Nice and was second at the Dauphine. His talent was obvious.

Not to mention, Porte has gotten better since his early days in cycling. Tejay's best years were when he was still eligible for the white jersey. Not every rider matures the same.

HAS he got better .... other than in the sense of more race experience even if his race smarts remain debateable ?
His climbing has probably been at the same level for the last 4-5 years; we are still yet to find out whether he's over "that one really bad day" syndrome.

For all the touting by some of "Richie the super time triallist", his record remains inconsistent in this discipline. Yes, he won an AUS ITT title (admittedly quite a tough title to win) ... once. At World level, whenever given a ride, he has never remotely challenged a podium spot. On a flat course, he's not at the party against the pure specialists and in GT TTs, he's erratic. A more accurate description would be that he is a rider who on his day, and a favourable course, can mix it with the best but he is not consistent and less at home on technical courses.

Yes, he is most certainly a better value for money rider for a team than TJVG. Richie has at least proven himself capable of being a top line mountain super domestique as well as winning top line WT one weekers. TJVG falls short on both those scores. The similarity lies in that both are arguably found wanting when it comes to bridging to GT podium let alone winning status

Well he cracked the top five for the first time ever, last year, even with his usual problems. But if he did win the Tour it would be a huge shake up, on top of Dumoulin's Giro win in the same season. Many riders can finish between fourth and tenth but podiums are usually dominated by the same group of riders unless it's a breakthrough win like Dumoulin's or crashes knock out the top contenders like in the 2014 Tour. Still even a rider like Contador hasn't made the Tour podium since 2010 and Porte's problems look minor compared to the range of mishaps that Contador has gone through. As for the TT it is hit and miss sometimes for Porte but his Dauphine TT was certainly a good one.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

At the same stage of Porte's career you could have said the same about him and more. TJ is 4 years younger, and has equaled Porte's best ever GT finish twice. It's only in the last 5 years (since his move to Sky) that Porte has won much, or at all.

Richie Porte only had 2 years on WT level before moving to Sky. He had a triathlon background and was late to top tier cycling.

4 years ago, in 2013, Porte was destroying Pelotons as Froome's superdomestique. He won Paris-Nice and was second at the Dauphine. His talent was obvious.

Not to mention, Porte has gotten better since his early days in cycling. Tejay's best years were when he was still eligible for the white jersey. Not every rider matures the same.

HAS he got better .... other than in the sense of more race experience even if his race smarts remain debateable ?
His climbing has probably been at the same level for the last 4-5 years; we are still yet to find out whether he's over "that one really bad day" syndrome.

For all the touting by some of "Richie the super time triallist", his record remains inconsistent in this discipline. Yes, he won an AUS ITT title (admittedly quite a tough title to win) ... once. At World level, whenever given a ride, he has never remotely challenged a podium spot. On a flat course, he's not at the party against the pure specialists and in GT TTs, he's erratic. A more accurate description would be that he is a rider who on his day, and a favourable course, can mix it with the best but he is not consistent and less at home on technical courses.

Yes, he is most certainly a better value for money rider for a team than TJVG. Richie has at least proven himself capable of being a top line mountain super domestique as well as winning top line WT one weekers. TJVG falls short on both those scores. The similarity lies in that both are arguably found wanting when it comes to bridging to GT podium let alone winning status

Well he cracked the top five for the first time ever, last year, even with his usual problems. But if he did win the Tour it would be a huge shake up, on top of Dumoulin's Giro win in the same season. Many riders can finish between fourth and tenth but podiums are usually dominated by the same group of riders unless it's a breakthrough win like Dumoulin's or crashes knock out the top contenders like in the 2014 Tour. Still even a rider like Contador hasn't made the Tour podium since 2010 and Porte's problems look minor compared to the range of mishaps that Contador has gone through. As for the TT it is hit and miss sometimes for Porte but his Dauphine TT was certainly a good one.

Contador has at least won GTs over that period, if not the Tour, and that's still quantum leap with regards to achievement beyond anything Porte has produced .... or is ever likely to produce. I think Bertie the Bounder's days of winning a GT have passed but he may stil have a significant role in determining who can/will.

I do not think Porte is a bad rider, far from it, he's proven an outstanding super-dom and 1 week rider. He probably possesses the desirable physical capacities to win a GT ...... his limitations most likely lie between his ears and his psyche. I wouldn't begrudge him anything SHOULD he ever win a GT ..... what I AM totally fed up with is the AUS cycling commentariat continually "pumping up his tyes".

 

[SeriousSam]

This wasn't Richard today, this was Lil' Richie. Not a good start.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

This wasn't Richard today, this was Lil' Richie. Not a good start.

Too cold, too short, too flat..........too bad ! I expected him to be closer to Froome, same with Contador, oh well. Sky dominate, Valverde goes out and not much else really.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

At the same stage of Porte's career you could have said the same about him and more. TJ is 4 years younger, and has equaled Porte's best ever GT finish twice. It's only in the last 5 years (since his move to Sky) that Porte has won much, or at all.

Richie Porte only had 2 years on WT level before moving to Sky. He had a triathlon background and was late to top tier cycling.

4 years ago, in 2013, Porte was destroying Pelotons as Froome's superdomestique. He won Paris-Nice and was second at the Dauphine. His talent was obvious.

Not to mention, Porte has gotten better since his early days in cycling. Tejay's best years were when he was still eligible for the white jersey. Not every rider matures the same.

HAS he got better .... other than in the sense of more race experience even if his race smarts remain debateable ?
His climbing has probably been at the same level for the last 4-5 years; we are still yet to find out whether he's over "that one really bad day" syndrome.

For all the touting by some of "Richie the super time triallist", his record remains inconsistent in this discipline. Yes, he won an AUS ITT title (admittedly quite a tough title to win) ... once. At World level, whenever given a ride, he has never remotely challenged a podium spot. On a flat course, he's not at the party against the pure specialists and in GT TTs, he's erratic. A more accurate description would be that he is a rider who on his day, and a favourable course, can mix it with the best but he is not consistent and less at home on technical courses.

Yes, he is most certainly a better value for money rider for a team than TJVG. Richie has at least proven himself capable of being a top line mountain super domestique as well as winning top line WT one weekers. TJVG falls short on both those scores. The similarity lies in that both are arguably found wanting when it comes to bridging to GT podium let alone winning status

Well he cracked the top five for the first time ever, last year, even with his usual problems. But if he did win the Tour it would be a huge shake up, on top of Dumoulin's Giro win in the same season. Many riders can finish between fourth and tenth but podiums are usually dominated by the same group of riders unless it's a breakthrough win like Dumoulin's or crashes knock out the top contenders like in the 2014 Tour. Still even a rider like Contador hasn't made the Tour podium since 2010 and Porte's problems look minor compared to the range of mishaps that Contador has gone through. As for the TT it is hit and miss sometimes for Porte but his Dauphine TT was certainly a good one.

Contador has at least won GTs over that period, if not the Tour, and that's still quantum leap with regards to achievement beyond anything Porte has produced .... or is ever likely to produce. I think Bertie the Bounder's days of winning a GT have passed but he may stil have a significant role in determining who can/will.

I do not think Porte is a bad rider, far from it, he's proven an outstanding super-dom and 1 week rider. He probably possesses the desirable physical capacities to win a GT ...... his limitations most likely lie between his ears and his psyche. I wouldn't begrudge him anything SHOULD he ever win a GT ..... what I AM totally fed up with is the AUS cycling commentariat continually "pumping up his tyes".

I would never compare Contador's career to Porte's but I was pointing out that even Contador with his pedigree can have a long run of outs as he has done in the Tour.

 

[yaco]

Porte has taken no risks in ITT' s in 2017 except for Dauphine. Two GC riders already out shows unnecessary risks are not required.

 

[SeriousSam]

Not for the podium, no, but in a Tour that offers little opportunity to make individual strength count, losing 30 seconds to Froome today is a very bad day if you want to win the Tour.

We'll see immediately once it goes uphill whether Porte is the best climber. If he isn't, the only reasonable scenario in which Froome doesn't win the Tour is if he crashes.

 

[Brullnux]

Re:

Not for the podium, no, but in a Tour that offers little opportunity to make individual strength count, losing 30 seconds to Froome today is a very bad day if you want to win the Tour.

We'll see immediately once it goes uphill whether Porte is the best climber. If he isn't, the only reasonable scenario in which Froome doesn't win the Tour is if he crashes.

Yeah, especially considering Porte put 37 seconds into Froome just a couple of weeks ago in a slightly longer and hillier TT. I'd be disappointed personally if I were Porte.