Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

[Gloin22]

Disagreed, Froome has still 2 years top Tour form, Porte wants Tour, and quite simple those two can't co-exist.

Landa is happy to do his Giro-Vuelta program for now, and everyone is happy. Porte would not be happy with leading Giro as he clearly stated.

 

[movingtarget]

Even though the Tour generally has a better field than the Giro, at least more of the top 10 GT riders usually ride the Tour. I still think that the Tour is a better race for Porte. I probably would have said the same about Evans as well. If anyone knows Froome's abilities and tactics it will be Porte. Hopefully he gets his head screwed on and can show what he is truly capable of in a GT. I don't think it's so much a lack of recovery over three weeks, I think it's head issues and often a change of team is good for that.

 

[Jancouver]

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

 

[gregrowlerson]

Re:

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

Annoying to you? Fair enough.

But how long has Porte had the level, the confidence, the ambition (and to some extent the team support) to be a grand tour podium contender? Not for all that long. Since 2013, when he opened up the season by winning Paris-Nice.

Since he was my favourite rider, let's look at Andreas Kloden. He won Paris-Nice and Pais Vasco in 2000. Entering 2004, for a variety of reasons, he had achieved next to nothing in grand tours (best result 26th in TDF), yet that year he finished second in Paris (and again - or third - in 2006). Kloden is similar to Porte. One of the more fragile GC riders no doubt, but you only have to get it together for three weeks, once. Porte could do that. I don't think that recovery is the issue. We saw him ride very strongly in the third week of the 2013 TDF, and I don't think that one horrible stage that year made a significant difference in physical recovery allowance (not like a rider who sits in the autobus for four mountain stages and then produces a good ride, which is what Richie did to some degree this year). Last year he was ill for a lot of the first half of the season and it was a pretty good effort to get himself to where he was in the Voges before he cracked very badly in the Alps. And we know what happened at this years Giro.

So yes, Porte is probably a little more fragile than Evans. He certainly isn't Contador, but I don't think he's Mayo either. And he can time trial with the best of them, and he can climb with the best of them. Plus he can produce strong rides in the third week.

Porte finishing on the podium in Paris next year is a distinct possibility. Maybe I'll even put my money where my mouth is

Won't put the house on it though

One thing is for certain. That if Nibali wins the Tour whilst defeating a fit and excuse free Froome and Contador, and Porte climbs up onto the podium with him; then this forum will completely crash

 

[cellardoor]

The way I see it is like this - if he can't be consistent he's not going to win any GT. If he can fix his consistency problem then his level on his best days is good enough to suggest he could win the Tour. His best climbing over the last few years has been almost Froome-level and his TTing is not to be sniffed at either. I agree with others that say the Tour suits him best as well, even if the level will be higher there. I think he's right to give the Tour a shot.

 

[blackcat]

can i still vote on the LRP poll?

 

[wendybnt]

He looks like a champ, doesn't he. Something about the set of his jaw and the steely determination in his eyes

 

[Ruudz0r]

Re:

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

Its not true though (imo), he had a bad day in a GT once (and that was the first impression, its hard to chance a first impression for many people) the rest of his bad performances were due to sickness, a crash or whatever. Yes that could mean he is not GT material as he is vulnerable when he is racing for a longer period of time, or when he is near top condition, but having a bad day once doesnt mean you ll always have a bad day in a GT.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

Its not true though (imo), he had a bad day in a GT once (and that was the first impression, its hard to chance a first impression for many people) the rest of his bad performances were due to sickness, a crash or whatever. Yes that could mean he is not GT material as he is vulnerable when he is racing for a longer period of time, or when he is near top condition, but having a bad day once doesnt mean you ll always have a bad day in a GT.

These are his recent Tour GC results.

48th
23rd
19th

Looks to me he has had at LEAST three bad days.

 

[Arnout]

I don't even understand how he can even talk about GT leadership when he's had one fluke top 10 - five years ago. After that, his average GT GC position is place 57, not counting the GT he didn't finish.

 

[Ruudz0r]

Re: Re:

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

Its not true though (imo), he had a bad day in a GT once (and that was the first impression, its hard to chance a first impression for many people) the rest of his bad performances were due to sickness, a crash or whatever. Yes that could mean he is not GT material as he is vulnerable when he is racing for a longer period of time, or when he is near top condition, but having a bad day once doesnt mean you ll always have a bad day in a GT.

These are his recent Tour GC results.

48th
23rd
19th

Looks to me he has had at LEAST three bad days.

You did not read the full post did you? He was ill in 2015 and in 2014 that is not having a bad day, that is having multiple bad days with a good reason. In 2013 he had his bad day and let go of the GC afterwards. Like I said getting ill happens a lot for some reasons when they are in or close to top form as the body is fragile (for example Nordhaug almost always gets sick when he gets near top form) so Porte might have the same thing which is obvious hard for a GT rider. But like I said he only has had 1 really bad day without being sick or feeling the effects of a crash and that was stage 9 of the 2012 TdF.

 

[jsem94]

Re:

I don't even understand how he can even talk about GT leadership when he's had one fluke top 10 - five years ago. After that, his average GT GC position is place 57, not counting the GT he didn't finish.

This! It's all a big joke.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

Its not true though (imo), he had a bad day in a GT once (and that was the first impression, its hard to chance a first impression for many people) the rest of his bad performances were due to sickness, a crash or whatever. Yes that could mean he is not GT material as he is vulnerable when he is racing for a longer period of time, or when he is near top condition, but having a bad day once doesnt mean you ll always have a bad day in a GT.

These are his recent Tour GC results.

48th
23rd
19th

Looks to me he has had at LEAST three bad days.

You did not read the full post did you? He was ill in 2015 and in 2014 that is not having a bad day, that is having multiple bad days with a good reason. In 2013 he had his bad day and let go of the GC afterwards. Like I said getting ill happens a lot for some reasons when they are in or close to top form as the body is fragile (for example Nordhaug almost always gets sick when he gets near top form) so Porte might have the same thing which is obvious hard for a GT rider. But like I said he only has had 1 really bad day without being sick or feeling the effects of a crash and that was stage 9 of the 2012 TdF.

Well he actually had pneumonia in the 2014 Tour so I think that's classed as ill and it makes no sense for some people to keep referring to it as a bad performance. It's funny that when Contador bangs his knee his entire fan base goes into meltdown but when Porte gets pneumonia it's a bad performance ! Porte knows better than anyone that he is now at the crossroads of his career and results are expected. I think the rivalry with TJVG could be a good thing for both of them because they both have a history of not getting the expected results for different reasons. After TJVG finished 5th in the 2012 Tour it was expected he would kick on but it did not happen. Sure the route suited him but since then he has often struggled with illness and crashes. Talansky even more so. Porte probably has two seasons to answer his critics. I think racing against Sky might also be good motivation for him. He should forget the TDU and do Tirreno, Romandie and the Dauphine. A later start to the season often works well for the Tour. Maybe one or two of the Ardenne classics as well. He could ride for Gilbert or GVA.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

I don't even understand how he can even talk about GT leadership when he's had one fluke top 10 - five years ago. After that, his average GT GC position is place 57, not counting the GT he didn't finish.

This! It's all a big joke.

Well, some people including me don't think so. And apparently BMC was willing to throw a bunch of money his way since they believe in his potential as well. If anything, he is one of the best 1 week racers.

Again: What makes him intriguing is his potential since he can climb and TT with the best. Only 4-5 riders in the peloton have that and Porte is one of them.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

Its not true though (imo), he had a bad day in a GT once (and that was the first impression, its hard to chance a first impression for many people) the rest of his bad performances were due to sickness, a crash or whatever. Yes that could mean he is not GT material as he is vulnerable when he is racing for a longer period of time, or when he is near top condition, but having a bad day once doesnt mean you ll always have a bad day in a GT.

These are his recent Tour GC results.

48th
23rd
19th

Looks to me he has had at LEAST three bad days.

You did not read the full post did you? He was ill in 2015 and in 2014 that is not having a bad day, that is having multiple bad days with a good reason. In 2013 he had his bad day and let go of the GC afterwards. Like I said getting ill happens a lot for some reasons when they are in or close to top form as the body is fragile (for example Nordhaug almost always gets sick when he gets near top form) so Porte might have the same thing which is obvious hard for a GT rider. But like I said he only has had 1 really bad day without being sick or feeling the effects of a crash and that was stage 9 of the 2012 TdF.

Well he actually had pneumonia in the 2014 Tour so I think that's classed as ill and it makes no sense for some people to keep referring to it as a bad performance. It's funny that when Contador bangs his knee his entire fan base goes into meltdown but when Porte gets pneumonia it's a bad performance ! Porte knows better than anyone that he is now at the crossroads of his career and results are expected. I think the rivalry with TJVG could be a good thing for both of them because they both have a history of not getting the expected results for different reasons. After TJVG finished 5th in the 2012 Tour it was expected he would kick on but it did not happen. Sure the route suited him but since then he has often struggled with illness and crashes. Talansky even more so. Porte probably has two seasons to answer his critics. I think racing against Sky might also be good motivation for him. He should forget the TDU and do Tirreno, Romandie and the Dauphine. A later start to the season often works well for the Tour. Maybe one or two of the Ardenne classics as well. He could ride for Gilbert or GVA.

Well AC has a track record for winning gt's so it's easier to "believe" him when he says "I underperformed because of this pain or sickness." It makes more sense because we know he can win. You can't compare Porte's issues with AC's. Porte has performed well only ONCE over 3 weeks and even that wasn't anything amazing.

 

[WheelofGear]

Re:

He looks like a champ, doesn't he. Something about the set of his jaw and the steely determination in his eyes

He looks like Red from Angry Birds!

 

[blackcat]

Re:

He looks like a champ, doesn't he. Something about the set of his jaw and the steely determination in his eyes

LRP FTW

apart from looking like one of Bert and Ernie from the muppets, the one with the longer head, that one. tis the nose

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

It's funny (or rather annoying) how Porte's GT ambitions by some blindfolded fans keep reappearing on this forum on regular basis. I dont want to be repeating myself over and over so I will use LS quote from today as that is pretty much what I have been saying for years.

"Porte is starting to strike me as one of those guys who doesn't have the recovery to win a GT - superb over one week, but he tends to have a bad day where it goes really wrong... "

Its not true though (imo), he had a bad day in a GT once (and that was the first impression, its hard to chance a first impression for many people) the rest of his bad performances were due to sickness, a crash or whatever. Yes that could mean he is not GT material as he is vulnerable when he is racing for a longer period of time, or when he is near top condition, but having a bad day once doesnt mean you ll always have a bad day in a GT.

These are his recent Tour GC results.

48th
23rd
19th

Looks to me he has had at LEAST three bad days.

You did not read the full post did you? He was ill in 2015 and in 2014 that is not having a bad day, that is having multiple bad days with a good reason. In 2013 he had his bad day and let go of the GC afterwards. Like I said getting ill happens a lot for some reasons when they are in or close to top form as the body is fragile (for example Nordhaug almost always gets sick when he gets near top form) so Porte might have the same thing which is obvious hard for a GT rider. But like I said he only has had 1 really bad day without being sick or feeling the effects of a crash and that was stage 9 of the 2012 TdF.

Well he actually had pneumonia in the 2014 Tour so I think that's classed as ill and it makes no sense for some people to keep referring to it as a bad performance. It's funny that when Contador bangs his knee his entire fan base goes into meltdown but when Porte gets pneumonia it's a bad performance ! Porte knows better than anyone that he is now at the crossroads of his career and results are expected. I think the rivalry with TJVG could be a good thing for both of them because they both have a history of not getting the expected results for different reasons. After TJVG finished 5th in the 2012 Tour it was expected he would kick on but it did not happen. Sure the route suited him but since then he has often struggled with illness and crashes. Talansky even more so. Porte probably has two seasons to answer his critics. I think racing against Sky might also be good motivation for him. He should forget the TDU and do Tirreno, Romandie and the Dauphine. A later start to the season often works well for the Tour. Maybe one or two of the Ardenne classics as well. He could ride for Gilbert or GVA.

What is funny is how that Contador's record in grand tours has no bearing on Porte's consistent inability to perform up to expectations. Having the constitution to withstand the rigors of the 3 weeks of a grand tour is what is being discussed here. Porte has shown that he simply has not displayed that ability while the rivals that he's hoping to defeat have. His rivals have shown the ability weather the times where sickness or injury has handicapped them. They may not win the overall but they have shown the ability to minimise their losses and still finish in a respectable position in the gc. His bad days are catostrophic, leaving him either in the backseat of the team car or reaching stage end of mountainous stages with the sprinters.

 

[Angliru]

Re: Re:

I don't even understand how he can even talk about GT leadership when he's had one fluke top 10 - five years ago. After that, his average GT GC position is place 57, not counting the GT he didn't finish.

This! It's all a big joke.

Well, some people including me don't think so. And apparently BMC was willing to throw a bunch of money his way since they believe in his potential as well. If anything, he is one of the best 1 week racers.

Again: What makes him intriguing is his potential since he can climb and TT with the best. Only 4-5 riders in the peloton have that and Porte is one of them.

It's quite possible that they feel the same as many of us do but the pluses of his proven talents in week-long stage races out way the risk of his unproven and questionable ability to finish what he starts in the grand tours.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

What is funny is how that Contador's record in grand tours has no bearing on Porte's consistent inability to perform up to expectations. Having the constitution to withstand the rigors of the 3 weeks of a grand tour is what is being discussed here. Porte has shown that he simply has not displayed that ability while the rivals that he's hoping to defeat have. His rivals have shown the ability weather the times where sickness or injury has handicapped them. They may not win the overall but they have shown the ability to minimise their losses and still finish in a respectable position in the gc. His bad days are catostrophic, leaving him either in the backseat of the team car or reaching stage end of mountainous stages with the sprinters.[/quote]

What I am saying is that excuses for under performing seem to depend on the rider and Contador is a much more popular rider than Porte. Even TJVG does not cop the hate as much as Porte and he was not too popular when he was younger. Porte knows what he has to do and now that he is not riding for Sky, the criticism might ease up a bit. I am prepared to look stupid but I still think he is capable of a good GT ride and a high finish. After Evans' period at BMC I don't think they will have a lot of patience with Porte and TJVG if they don't start showing results in GTs and other younger riders like Aru,Chaves and Landa are already showing big improvements.

 

[damian13ster]

Re: Re:

What is funny is how that Contador's record in grand tours has no bearing on Porte's consistent inability to perform up to expectations. Having the constitution to withstand the rigors of the 3 weeks of a grand tour is what is being discussed here. Porte has shown that he simply has not displayed that ability while the rivals that he's hoping to defeat have. His rivals have shown the ability weather the times where sickness or injury has handicapped them. They may not win the overall but they have shown the ability to minimise their losses and still finish in a respectable position in the gc. His bad days are catostrophic, leaving him either in the backseat of the team car or reaching stage end of mountainous stages with the sprinters.

What I am saying is that excuses for under performing seem to depend on the rider and Contador is a much more popular rider than Porte. Even TJVG does not cop the hate as much as Porte and he was not too popular when he was younger. Porte knows what he has to do and now that he is not riding for Sky, the criticism might ease up a bit. I am prepared to look stupid but I still think he is capable of a good GT ride and a high finish. After Evans' period at BMC I don't think they will have a lot of patience with Porte and TJVG if they don't start showing results in GTs and other younger riders like Aru,Chaves and Landa are already showing big improvements.[/quote]

I am with you on this one. If Tour has at leas 70kms of TTs, Porte will top 5.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

I don't even understand how he can even talk about GT leadership when he's had one fluke top 10 - five years ago. After that, his average GT GC position is place 57, not counting the GT he didn't finish.

This! It's all a big joke.

Well, some people including me don't think so. And apparently BMC was willing to throw a bunch of money his way since they believe in his potential as well. If anything, he is one of the best 1 week racers.

Again: What makes him intriguing is his potential since he can climb and TT with the best. Only 4-5 riders in the peloton have that and Porte is one of them.

TT with the best ?? When and where ?? He's won a couple of short one's at early season 1 week tours and he's won one national title.

How has he performed in "full distance" ones at GTs or at Worlds ? 4th in a 40km ITT at 2013 Tdf (a minute outside the medals) and 17th at 2013 Worlds doesn't exactly equate to "with the world's best". His TTing is frankly over-rated. He's a good TTer but nowhere near the standard of the specialists and below the standard of the top TTers amongst the GC contenders.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I don't even understand how he can even talk about GT leadership when he's had one fluke top 10 - five years ago. After that, his average GT GC position is place 57, not counting the GT he didn't finish.

This! It's all a big joke.

Well, some people including me don't think so. And apparently BMC was willing to throw a bunch of money his way since they believe in his potential as well. If anything, he is one of the best 1 week racers.

Again: What makes him intriguing is his potential since he can climb and TT with the best. Only 4-5 riders in the peloton have that and Porte is one of them.

TT with the best ?? When and where ?? He's won a couple of short one's at early season 1 week tours and he's won one national title.

How has he performed in "full distance" ones at GTs or at Worlds ? 4th in a 40km ITT at 2013 Tdf (a minute outside the medals) and 17th at 2013 Worlds doesn't exactly equate to "with the world's best". His TTing is frankly over-rated. He's a good TTer but nowhere near the standard of the specialists and below the standard of the top TTers amongst the GC contenders.

He did get 4th and 6th in 2010 and 2011 Worlds TT's, but I think your point still stands.

 

[nightfend]

He is like Gesink. He puts together moments of brilliance, but he will never be consistent enough to win a grand tour.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

I don't even understand how he can even talk about GT leadership when he's had one fluke top 10 - five years ago. After that, his average GT GC position is place 57, not counting the GT he didn't finish.

This! It's all a big joke.

Well, some people including me don't think so. And apparently BMC was willing to throw a bunch of money his way since they believe in his potential as well. If anything, he is one of the best 1 week racers.

Again: What makes him intriguing is his potential since he can climb and TT with the best. Only 4-5 riders in the peloton have that and Porte is one of them.

TT with the best ?? When and where ?? He's won a couple of short one's at early season 1 week tours and he's won one national title.

How has he performed in "full distance" ones at GTs or at Worlds ? 4th in a 40km ITT at 2013 Tdf (a minute outside the medals) and 17th at 2013 Worlds doesn't exactly equate to "with the world's best". His TTing is frankly over-rated. He's a good TTer but nowhere near the standard of the specialists and below the standard of the top TTers amongst the GC contenders.

He did get 4th and 6th in 2010 and 2011 Worlds TT's, but I think your point still stands.

Fair points but the 2010 result was the only time he was anywhere near the medals. All other times he's been minutes away. Seeing as AUS will have 2 ITT quotas for the Rio ITT, he may get one of them seeing as the course is likely to be lumpy but a "result" would be a long-shot