Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I am pleased that Porte rode well and proved his doubters wrong. People like to draw conclusions on minimal evidence. This "bad day" theory always struck me as half-baked.

Put me in the doubter camp, I said he would never win a GT and would be lucky to podium. And, that he should concentrate on week long races and the Vuelta as that's the GT where he could go against the former comment about not winning a GT.

Nothing has changed, nothing in those comments has been proved wrong and there are now some younger riders who will beat him next time.

Even his own team doubted he could win, otherwise they would have had a rider glued to his wheel in case he punctured. Instead they were trying to get a win for one of their domestiques.

Take out the puncture he finishes second in the race. Unless a puncture denotes a lack of talent ? No one expected him to beat Froome but he showed that he can least compete with Froome in the mountains and attack with Froome. The pity is he rode a good race but the misfortune cost him a podium while you have Quintana who did nothing to make the race interesting finish on the podium because he missed the problems others had. Based on who finished fourth in the race and second I think Porte has a shot at the podium again. A front wheel puncture would have been sorted much quicker but the bunch was flying with about 4 kms to go and he had to wait for neutral service and it was a slow change. Because of his size he couldn't swap bikes with someone either like Froome did. Anyway such is bike racing but I think he is due a change of luck. At least now he has finished a GT in the top 5 and this should give him confidence for next year. If Porte is frustrated I suppose Contador must be just shaking his head.

 

[Jagartrott]

'Take out the double puncture' is an invalid argument.
The dynamics of a race inevitably change. You can't just subtract lost time and then claim: 'ah, see, Porte would've ended second'. Bardet would probably have attacked earlier if that was the case, and maybe some others too.

I never had the feeling Porte was second best at this Tour.

 

[IndianCyclist]

Now at least he is in the top 5(first for him). but his record against mechanicals and crashes is still bad. He wont finish on the podium this way

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

'Take out the double puncture' is an invalid argument.
The dynamics of a race inevitably change. You can't just subtract lost time and then claim: 'ah, see, Porte would've ended second'. Bardet would probably have attacked earlier if that was the case, and maybe some others too.

I never had the feeling Porte was second best at this Tour.

It was telling that Bardet attacked on a descent when there were troubles going on behind as he showed no sign of being able to shake off the others on an actual climb. He was also lucky he did not fall when he seemed to clip Cherel's back wheel or a parked car beside him, it was hard to tell what happened there. I think he finished the last few days a bit stronger than Porte but over the entire race I think I would give it to Porte. I am glad Bardet finished ahead of Quintana but the signs were there that Mollema and Yates were starting to weaken during the final TT. With Mollema it's hard to know how much time he would have lost without his problems. He may have hung onto third place. Froome was so far ahead of everyone else it is hard to say who was second strongest but I would say Porte and Bardet were hard to split. Contador, Mollema and Porte need a change of luck otherwise they start to fall into Gesink territory and that is not a place a GT rider wants to be !

 

[SeriousSam]

Re:

'Take out the double puncture' is an invalid argument.
The dynamics of a race inevitably change. You can't just subtract lost time and then claim: 'ah, see, Porte would've ended second'. Bardet would probably have attacked earlier if that was the case, and maybe some others too.

I never had the feeling Porte was second best at this Tour.

It's true that the dynamics might have changed, but it's unlikely. Porte hasn't been a rider others were particularly aware of or concerned with, and he himself likely wouldn't done anything different either.

It's frankly absurd to think those less than 1:45 ahead were stronger in the Tour than he was.

 

[barmaher]

I was a bit disappointed that he didn't push harder for a podium place. I would agree that he had bad luck on Stage 2 and on Ventoux. But his luck was not as bad as Contador's for instance. He had the opportunity to make the time back.

I was disappointed he didn't do better in the first ITT (was the knee a factor from the previous day?) and in the last two mountain stages (did his crash on stage 19 make a difference?).

But overall, I am glad to see that he didn't throw in his expected bad day.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

I was a bit disappointed that he didn't push harder for a podium place. I would agree that he had bad luck on Stage 2 and on Ventoux. But his luck was not as bad as Contador's for instance. He had the opportunity to make the time back.

I was disappointed he didn't do better in the first ITT (was the knee a factor from the previous day?) and in the last two mountain stages (did his crash on stage 19 make a difference?).

But overall, I am glad to see that he didn't throw in his expected bad day.

The last stage was not one to risk everything on with the dodgy descent and wet conditions and to see the top 10 ride conservatively was no surprise. Porte said that the pace Sky were doing on the last climb made it difficult to attack anyway and no one was willing to risk their GC position at that stage. Yates was not far behind Quintana on time but seemed happy with his place and his overall ride as he should be.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

'Take out the double puncture' is an invalid argument.
The dynamics of a race inevitably change. You can't just subtract lost time and then claim: 'ah, see, Porte would've ended second'. Bardet would probably have attacked earlier if that was the case, and maybe some others too.

I never had the feeling Porte was second best at this Tour.

It's true that the dynamics might have changed, but it's unlikely. Porte hasn't been a rider others were particularly aware of or concerned with, and he himself likely wouldn't done anything different either.

It's frankly absurd to think those less than 1:45 ahead were stronger in the Tour than he was.

It's quite funny actually. Porte cops more criticism for finishing fifth than Aru or TJVG got for collapsing and finishing down the GC.

 

[Yingge]

Richie did better that I had expected, and without the bad luck would have made the podium. Then again, others had some bad luck (crashes, illness) which ended their TDF there and then - a hazard of the job.

BMC should now know that Richie is their GC man - TJVG knows its not him now.

 

[movingtarget]

Richie did better that I had expected, and without the bad luck would have made the podium. Then again, others had some bad luck (crashes, illness) which ended their TDF there and then - a hazard of the job.

BMC should now know that Richie is their GC man - TJVG knows its not him now.

BMC knows but not sure about TJVG.

 

[barmaher]

Re: Re:

I was a bit disappointed that he didn't push harder for a podium place. I would agree that he had bad luck on Stage 2 and on Ventoux. But his luck was not as bad as Contador's for instance. He had the opportunity to make the time back.

I was disappointed he didn't do better in the first ITT (was the knee a factor from the previous day?) and in the last two mountain stages (did his crash on stage 19 make a difference?).

But overall, I am glad to see that he didn't throw in his expected bad day.

The last stage was not one to risk everything on with the dodgy descent and wet conditions and to see the top 10 ride conservatively was no surprise. Porte said that the pace Sky were doing on the last climb made it difficult to attack anyway and no one was willing to risk their GC position at that stage. Yates was not far behind Quintana on time but seemed happy with his place and his overall ride as he should be.

Fair enough, but it may be the best chance he gets for a GT podium.

 

[Night Rider]

Re: Re:

I am pleased that Porte rode well and proved his doubters wrong. People like to draw conclusions on minimal evidence. This "bad day" theory always struck me as half-baked.

Put me in the doubter camp, I said he would never win a GT and would be lucky to podium. And, that he should concentrate on week long races and the Vuelta as that's the GT where he could go against the former comment about not winning a GT.

Nothing has changed, nothing in those comments has been proved wrong and there are now some younger riders who will beat him next time.

Even his own team doubted he could win, otherwise they would have had a rider glued to his wheel in case he punctured. Instead they were trying to get a win for one of their domestiques.

But he was the only rider who blew up the Sky train in the three weeks even if he only did it once.

I didn't ever say he wasn't good in one off stages or week long races. An example of that is I think he is one of the outright favourites for the Olympic gold.

 

[Night Rider]

Re:

'Take out the double puncture' is an invalid argument.
The dynamics of a race inevitably change. You can't just subtract lost time and then claim: 'ah, see, Porte would've ended second'. Bardet would probably have attacked earlier if that was the case, and maybe some others too.

I never had the feeling Porte was second best at this Tour.

Correct. Too many variables. Contador crashed stage 1, Quintana obviously not good, Pinot sick, Valverde wasted working for an out of form leader, the list goes on. And Inrng made a good point yesterday about not just deducting the time loss for LRP, that if anything it took a lot of pressure of Porte which everyone knows he is prone to failing under.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

'Take out the double puncture' is an invalid argument.
The dynamics of a race inevitably change. You can't just subtract lost time and then claim: 'ah, see, Porte would've ended second'. Bardet would probably have attacked earlier if that was the case, and maybe some others too.

I never had the feeling Porte was second best at this Tour.

Correct. Too many variables. Contador crashed stage 1, Quintana obviously not good, Pinot sick, Valverde wasted working for an out of form leader, the list goes on. And Inrng made a good point yesterday about not just deducting the time loss for LRP, that if anything it took a lot of pressure of Porte which everyone knows he is prone to failing under.

I disagree. I think the puncture put him under more pressure after what happened in the Giro last year and then to crash on Ventoux and have another fall added even more pressure. That is why I liked his ride this year. He didn't cave in and showed some fight. Quintana avoided problems and finished on the podium and the pressure was already getting to him in the first week with the crosswinds and the lost time to Froome on the descent. Of course it's all relative and Contador will be hoping to avoid any crashes in the Vuelta. I think this result will be a confidence boost for Porte even though as he said it was bittersweet but I guess it's the same for Mollema. But if Porte has been under pressure I wonder how TJVG feels ?

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I was a bit disappointed that he didn't push harder for a podium place. I would agree that he had bad luck on Stage 2 and on Ventoux. But his luck was not as bad as Contador's for instance. He had the opportunity to make the time back.

I was disappointed he didn't do better in the first ITT (was the knee a factor from the previous day?) and in the last two mountain stages (did his crash on stage 19 make a difference?).

But overall, I am glad to see that he didn't throw in his expected bad day.

The last stage was not one to risk everything on with the dodgy descent and wet conditions and to see the top 10 ride conservatively was no surprise. Porte said that the pace Sky were doing on the last climb made it difficult to attack anyway and no one was willing to risk their GC position at that stage. Yates was not far behind Quintana on time but seemed happy with his place and his overall ride as he should be.

Fair enough, but it may be the best chance he gets for a GT podium.

That's true of course or he may come out and do better next year. Every year Contador competes in the Tour he has been tipped for the Podium or to win and he has not podiumed since 2010. There are so many variables especially in this sport. If it hasn't happened for a rider like Contador the same can happen to anyone. Champion riders usually get more chances but for riders that are not regular GT winners it's obviously a struggle to make the podium any time. But even Contador being a champion has not helped him in the Tour in recent years. At 31 Porte is still relatively young for a GC rider and obviously Yates is only at the beginning of his career. Hopefully they can reproduce the form of this year.

 

[Yingge]

Every year the form suggests so and so will win etc, and of course every year the variables come in, crashes, illness, mechanicals, errant cars/motos/fans, weather, team stuffups and so on.

This year Porte, Contador and Quintana and others drew the short straw, as others have done so in past years - Contador seems to have been the main "victim" recently - injured in an early crash in 2011, crashed out in 2014 and retired after two crashes in 2016.

The rain in the last couple of mountain stages this year made the descents a lottery, and many chose caution as a result.

 

[DBotero]

Still not a change of fortune for Porte,maybe next year.He looked good yesterday despite the usual mechanical problems but that damn crash ruined the day for him.

 

[movingtarget]

Still not a change of fortune for Porte,maybe next year.He looked good yesterday despite the usual mechanical problems but that damn crash ruined the day for him.

Only two mechanicals and a crash in this race ! The crash was not his fault as the Russian fell in front of him. But this is the luck Porte has had of late. An injury is better at the end of the season I suppose. Simon Clarke said that Porte was looking good until the fall. Oh well. I really thought the race was done and dusted and Nibali was riding for gold but even the best riders can make mistakes. GVA was a worthy winner.

 

[Jancouver]

C'mon! It's just mid November!

Usually, we get to hear all this nonsense around the TDU in January but this year, it's an early Christmas for me :lol:


Peiper confident that Porte can win the Tour de France. 'We are building a team that focuses on him, he is the only leader'

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peiper-confident-that-porte-can-win-the-tour-de-france/

 

[swuzzlebubble]

Re:

C'mon! It's just mid November!

Usually, we get to hear all this nonsense around the TDU in January but this year, it's an early Christmas for me :lol:


Peiper confident that Porte can win the Tour de France. 'We are building a team that focuses on him, he is the only leader'

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peiper-confident-that-porte-can-win-the-tour-de-france/

They need to get in before TJVG starts his own "hearts and minds" campaign

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

C'mon! It's just mid November!

Usually, we get to hear all this nonsense around the TDU in January but this year, it's an early Christmas for me :lol:


Peiper confident that Porte can win the Tour de France. 'We are building a team that focuses on him, he is the only leader'

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peiper-confident-that-porte-can-win-the-tour-de-france/

They need to get in before TJVG starts his own "hearts and minds" campaign

Sooner or later you have to deliver. TJVG hasn't either as a GC rider or even as a domestique. He was next to useless for Porte in the Tour and could not even make it to the bottom of the final climb with the GC riders on most stages. The sport has become more cut throat like other pro sports. If you don't do your job well in any capacity the managers run out of patience as do the sponsors. TJVG's next contract will be a pay cut cause he has nothing to bargain with. At least when Roche gave up GC ambitions he did some good work as a domestique but TJVG hasn't. BMC had no choice to put all of their support behind Porte like they did for Evans. There is no reason Porte can't podium but winning a GT is a big step and he would need Froome and maybe others to have some bad luck for it to happen which is possible. Look at Contador's Tour issues since 2010 !

 

[SergeDeM]

My very late take on Porte's 2016 TDF:

Even with bad luck/turds from Contador, Aru and Quintana, a no-show from Nibali, and a very weak in-house rival, he still found a way to be out of contention relatively early. This was a very good year for him to podium but it was yet another wasted chance, which keeps me thinking that the stars just can't ever align quite right for him.

On the plus side, he soldiered on and posted a very respectable 5th place, which I truly never thought he could do. I still can't see him winning a GT but it no longer feels right for me to use him as a punchline.

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

My very late take on Porte's 2016 TDF:

Even with bad luck/turds from Contador, Aru and Quintana, a no-show from Nibali, and a very weak in-house rival, he still found a way to be out of contention relatively early. This was a very good year for him to podium but it was yet another wasted chance, which keeps me thinking that the stars just can't ever align quite right for him.

On the plus side, he soldiered on and posted a very respectable 5th place, which I truly never thought he could do. I still can't see him winning a GT but it no longer feels right for me to use him as a punchline.

No doubt it was a missed opportunity. Hopefully he can use it as motivation for next year. At least now he knows he can ride a strong race over three weeks and make the top five and many fans doubted he would even do that.

 

[yaco]

Porte can podium at the 2017 TDF if he TT's better - Yes, he bad luck at the beginning of the 2016 TDF, but ultimately his two TT's were disappointing by his standards - Get this right and a podium is waiting.

Teejay should target the Giro - Lot's of TT km's suit his characteristics and then its a matter of performing solidly in the mountains.

 

[StryderHells]

Re:

Porte can podium at the 2017 TDF if he TT's better - Yes, he bad luck at the beginning of the 2016 TDF, but ultimately his two TT's were disappointing by his standards - Get this right and a podium is waiting.

Teejay should target the Giro - Lot's of TT km's suit his characteristics and then its a matter of performing solidly in the mountains.

I don't think Porte's TT's at the Tour were disappointing at all as his TT ability is a little overrated if you look at his results of late, outside of the 2015 Col d'Eze TT at P-N and his nationals win (I don't really rate the Aus Nationals TT as they are at the start of the season) he hasn't performed with any consistency since 2013. His climbing improved in this same period so it's the trade off that his TT has dropped down a peg or 3.

As to TJvG going to the Giro, he can try that but I doubt he'll do any better in the Giro mountains