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Richie Porte Discussion Thread.

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In which year will Porte win the GT Treble?

  • He will only manage the double

    Votes: 9 100.0%
  • Total voters
    9
Angliru

Angliru

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myrideissteelerthanyours said:
He helped Froome trounce Contador thats what got him on the list of forums most hated.
Click to expand...
Even Porte's own fans speak of his not meeting up to the vast expectations that the media and themselves have for him. Don't simplify it as being because the Contador fans hate him. He regularly touted as being a contender for the Tour and regularly falls way short. He's hyped as an elite gc rider but his palmares indicate that he's finished in the top ten of any grand tour a wopping 1 time in 9 years! Yet teams still give him grand tour leadership money and status, knowing all of this. Every year we're subjected to the same articles talking Porte up as a contender for the Tour and each and every year he fails to deliver, for whatever reason. Be it bad luck, bad bike handling, bad positioning in the pack, a lack of attention to the details of his own bike that maybe he fails to communicate regularly to his team mechanics (just an idea), extreme bad luck, fragility, lack of mental toughness as it compares to his rivals......the list goes on. Not to say he isn't mentally tough but maybe not on the level of his more successful rivals.
As was mentioned before he can sustain the hyped level for the length of a week long stage race but the focus and endurance necessary for the successful pursuit of a high placement in the gc of a grand tour just seems to be something that he simply does not possess. He can't hold it together for that long OR he is just one of the most unlucky riders to chase grand tour success in recent memory.
Also the fact that this is an anglo site it's much easier for CN to drudge up details, interviews and reports for articles on English speaking riders than the rest even when more deserving riders are out there to be interviewed and reported on more often.
It could be argued that in the past 20 years he is the only rider whose primary success is in week long stage races that gets the same notoriety and hype of riders far more successful in grand tours than he. He's often mentioned in the same breath as Nibali, Froome, Contador, Valverde, etc... with little in the way of similar success in the grand tours or any other type of events other than week long stage races. He has no record to speak of in one day events, such that they don't even bother to list his results in those events on his wiki page.

Edit: I shortchanged Porte. He has 2 top ten finishes in grand tours. I missed the 7th he placed in the Giro in 2010.
 
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movingtarget

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Angliru said:
Even Porte's own fans speak of his not meeting up to the vast expectations that the media and themselves have for him. Don't simplify it as being because the Contador fans hate him. He regularly touted as being a contender for the Tour and regularly falls way short. He's hyped as an elite gc rider but his palmares indicate that he's finished in the top ten of any grand tour a wopping 1 time in 9 years! Yet teams still give him grand tour leadership money and status, knowing all of this. Every year we're subjected to the same articles talking Porte up as a contender for the Tour and each and every year he fails to deliver, for whatever reason. Be it bad luck, bad bike handling, bad positioning in the pack, a lack of attention to the details of his own bike that maybe he fails to communicate regularly to his team mechanics (just an idea), extreme bad luck, fragility, lack of mental toughness as it compares to his rivals......the list goes on. Not to say he isn't mentally tough but maybe not on the level of his more successful rivals.
As was mentioned before he can sustain the hyped level for the length of a week long stage race but the focus and endurance necessary for the successful pursuit of a high placement in the gc of a grand tour just seems to be something that he simply does not possess. He can't hold it together for that long OR he is just one of the most unlucky riders to chase grand tour success in recent memory.
Also the fact that this is an anglo site it's much easier for CN to drudge up details, interviews and reports for articles on English speaking riders than the rest even when more deserving riders are out there to be interviewed and reported on more often.
It could be argued that in the past 20 years he is the only rider whose primary success is in week long stage races that gets the same notoriety and hype of riders far more successful in grand tours than he. He's often mentioned in the same breath as Nibali, Froome, Contador, Valverde, etc... with little in the way of similar success in the grand tours or any other type of events other than week long stage races. He has no record to speak of in one day events, such that they don't even bother to list his results in those events on his wiki page.
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I agree with most of what you have written but let's not pretend that some riders over the years seem to be especially derided or mocked. I can think of a few : Evans before he won the Tour, Gerrans, Porte, Wiggins and Froome. Interestingly all anglos on a so called anglo site. Porte's years riding for Sky were never forgotten by his detractorsn so let's not pretend that the Sky connection hasn't made the scrutiny for Porte's critics even more more severe. Even Tejay Van Garderen until recently has been really picked apart by non fans. There was no love for Rodgers until he went and rode for Contador but when he won a stage, his detractors always mentioned his former years at Sky. I guess as the Colombians take over at Ineos the criticism will be dialled down and when Froome retires mostly forgotten............
 
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Angliru

Angliru

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movingtarget said:
I agree with most of what you have written but let's not pretend that some riders over the years seem to be especially derided or mocked. I can think of a few : Evans before he won the Tour, Gerrans, Porte, Wiggins and Froome. Interestingly all anglos on a so called anglo site. Porte's years riding for Sky were never forgotten by his detractorsn so let's not pretend that the Sky connection hasn't made the scrutiny for Porte's critics even more more severe. Even Tejay Van Garderen until recently has been really picked apart by non fans. There was no love for Rodgers until he went and rode for Contador but when he won a stage, his detractors always mentioned his former years at Sky. I guess as the Colombians take over at Ineos the criticism will be dialled down and when Froome retires mostly forgotten............
Click to expand...
Evans won over many of his detractors and gained fans with one particular victorious Giro stage victory in extreme conditions. The images from that stage were like that of a seemingly long gone era of the sport usually left for black and white photos. This done while wearing the jersey of the reigning WCRR champion (a victory that also changed many a view of him) The mockery of Evans was a direct result of his rather quirky personality and instances of peculiar behavior while in the spotlight of contending at major events. It could have been traced back even further to an instance where, near the end of the Armstrong era the gc contenders were ending a mountainous stage of the Tour approaching the line with the stage having already been decided by a successful break and Evans suddenly sprinted to the line to the surprise of the rest of the group. No bonuses were on order, no chance for time to be gained, just an odd decision that was found to be curious by his rivals, the media and fans. He was at the time, an eccentric fellow.
Gerrans was derided because of the methods he used to gain success. Seen as race craft, tactical acumen by some and following wheels by others.
Wiggins explosive temperment and his sometimes crumbling under adversity that accompanied the tantrums opened him up to being mocked.
The fact that they're from English speaking countries I don't think has much to do with it. They would still stand out because of their actions the same way Bouhanni, Moscon and others do.
 
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movingtarget

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Angliru said:
Evans won over many of his detractors and gained fans with one particular victorious Giro stage victory in extreme conditions. The images from that stage were like that of a seemingly long gone era of the sport usually left for black and white photos. This done while wearing the jersey of the reigning WCRR champion (a victory that also changed many a view of him) The mockery of Evans was a direct result of his rather quirky personality and instances of peculiar behavior while in the spotlight of contending at major events. It could have been traced back even further to an instance where, near the end of the Armstrong era the gc contenders were ending a mountainous stage of the Tour approaching the line with the stage having already been decided by a successful break and Evans suddenly sprinted to the line to the surprise of the rest of the group. No bonuses were on order, no chance for time to be gained, just an odd decision that was found to be curious by his rivals, the media and fans. He was at the time, an eccentric fellow.
Gerrans was derided because of the methods he used to gain success. Seen as race craft, tactical acumen by some and following wheels by others.
Wiggins explosive temperment and his sometimes crumbling under adversity that accompanied the tantrums opened him up to being mocked.
The fact that they're from English speaking countries I don't think has much to do with it. They would still stand out because of their actions the same way Bouhanni, Moscon and others do.
Click to expand...

Yes when Evans won the Worlds in 2009 and the Montalcino stage in the Giro in 2010 plus the Fleche he started to get a bit more respect but he was always a brittle personality and didn't lighten up much until after he won the Tour. Porte comes across as a nice guy off the bike maybe too nice for some. Evans would kill himself to avoid losing time on a mountain while Porte a much more natural climber, never had Evan's determination or ability to suffer and it seems he never had the recovery either for three week races generally speaking. Porte has had a good career but he promised or hinted at being able to do much more but couldn't deliver in grand tours.
 
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perico

perico

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I think being an Anglo on an Anglo message board has hurt him because he’s been hyped by anglos every single year. As Angliru mentioned, Anglo coverage put him in the same status as Froome, Contador, Nibali, Valverde, and Nairo every single year when his palmares resembles Fuglsang, who had never been seriously considered a Tour contender until the last year when Froome and Dumoulin were out with injury. Now Fuglsang is a hell of a rider, as is Porte, but neither have a record that should put them on the same level as multi GT winners like Froome, Nibali, Contador, or Nairo- multi GT winners, or Valverde who has multiple Top 5 finishes as well as a a GT before a GT starts.

Plus: for many forum members who have been around since the beginning, he probably suffers in popularity due to the over the top hype Evans received before his TdF win from certain Aussie fans. Unlike Evans, Porte seems unlikely to have more opportunities to win over his critics by winning a big one.
 
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movingtarget

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perico said:
I think being an Anglo on an Anglo message board has hurt him because he’s been hyped by anglos every single year. As Angliru mentioned, Anglo coverage put him in the same status as Froome, Contador, Nibali, Valverde, and Nairo every single year when his palmares resembles Fuglsang, who had never been seriously considered a Tour contender until the last year when Froome and Dumoulin were out with injury. Now Fuglsang is a hell of a rider, as is Porte, but neither have a record that should put them on the same level as multi GT winners like Froome, Nibali, Contador, or Nairo- multi GT winners, or Valverde who has multiple Top 5 finishes as well as a a GT before a GT starts.

Plus: for many forum members who have been around since the beginning, he probably suffers in popularity due to the over the top hype Evans received before his TdF win from certain Aussie fans. Unlike Evans, Porte seems unlikely to have more opportunities to win over his critics by winning a big one.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't Evans be hyped ? He had two narrow Tour losses in 2007 and 2008 and was world champion in 2009 as well as making the Vuelta podium. What has Porte done that approaches that ?

Hardly anyone was putting Porte in the same category as Nibali, Froome etc.........with Porte it was about what he might do not what he had done. His stage racing in shorter races was good but as history shows, it doesn't always translate to grand tours. Fuglsang is the same. Better riders than Porte have also received the same hype in the past and never delivered. Look at all the French riders over the years that have been hyped and they haven't won a Tour for over 30 years. They haven't won any grand tours since Jalabert in 1989. Hoping a rider does well isn't necessarily hyping them. Journalists have a job a to do and it's in their interest to keep a certain amount of hype going. TJVG was also getting quite a bit of that. Fans are loyal to their favourite riders for their own reasons and it doesn't mean they expect them to win.
 
perico

perico

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movingtarget said:
Why wouldn't Evans be hyped ? He had two narrow Tour losses in 2007 and 2008 and was world champion in 2009 as well as making the Vuelta podium. What has Porte done that approaches that ?

Hardly anyone was putting Porte in the same category as Nibali, Froome etc.........with Porte it was about what he might do not what he had done. His stage racing in shorter races was good but as history shows, it doesn't always translate to grand tours. Fuglsang is the same. Better riders than Porte have also received the same hype in the past and never delivered. Look at all the French riders over the years that have been hyped and they haven't won a Tour for over 30 years. They haven't won any grand tours since Jalabert in 1989. Hoping a rider does well isn't necessarily hyping them. Journalists have a job a to do and it's in their interest to keep a certain amount of hype going. TJVG was also getting quite a bit of that. Fans are loyal to their favourite riders for their own reasons and it doesn't mean they expect them to win.
Click to expand...
I was talking about the media, from Kirby to Phil and Paul.
 
perico

perico

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perico said:
I was talking about the media, from Kirby to Phil and Paul.
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On here, the Evans fans could be quite insufferable back then. Again, Evans proved a lot of his doubters wrong. I have massive respect for his accomplishments and am not belittling him at all. I’m just saying that Porte seems to have inherited some of the disdain on here because his career seems to have become what the doubters thought Evans would be before his WC and Tour wins.
 
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movingtarget

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perico said:
On here, the Evans fans could be quite insufferable back then. Again, Evans proved a lot of his doubters wrong. I have massive respect for his accomplishments and am not belittling him at all. I’m just saying that Porte seems to have inherited some of the disdain on here because his career seems to have become what the doubters thought Evans would be before his WC and Tour wins.
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From what I remember some of the Contador and Schleck fans could also be insufferable. I blame the media more than fans but even then in sports someone is always being hyped. You see it every sport, this week's media darling has disappeared a year later. Journalists are paid to drum up interest but some are a lot worse than others. Fans were being banned and suspended frequently on this website back in those years, it got quite nasty at times. Some disappeared for good.
 
gregrowlerson

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Richie's form really seemed to fall away last season; it appeared all over (after six seasons of elite climbing at times). But two strong performances on MTF's in the last week gives his fans renewed hope for a strong GT ride. Probably still at best only a 1% chance to win the Tour, but maybe a 10% chance to sneak onto the podium.

On second thoughts I still wouldn't take those odds myself, but I'm trying to stay positive :smile:
 
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inthepink

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yaco said:
Porte will aim to win a stage at the TDF and support Mollema.
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Can you tell me the source of your information ?

Porte is a stronger GC rider than Mollema and he thinks so too

He is also hopeless at trying to get into breakaways and has no sprint and is not a very strong as a rouler ...stage hunting is not his forte so I'd be surprised if he didnt start as a GC rider at least
 
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