Richie Porte - what do we know about him?

[Dear Wiggo]

It was raining. So it means he washes his hands all day.

Marginal gain.

First I read the race report headline on CN and chuckled. Then I read the race report itself and chuckled, knowing the thread would have exploded.

But this. This is.

Good post, Hog.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

CN race report mentions the Sky team tactics. And tactics definitely make a difference when it comes down to a skirmish like a finish on wet roads covered in white paint at the end / penultimate stage of a multi-stage race, no question.

I can imagine the scenario:

DS: Righto lads. Richie: at the end of the stage, I want you to ride away from Alberto Contador, Sammy Sanchez, Rojas and Pieter Weening, and whoever else manages to make the final selection.
Richie: No problem.
Clinic:

It's all well and good coming up with tactics, but executing them? Not always so simple.

 

[thehog]

CN race report mentions the Sky team tactics. And tactics definitely make a difference when it comes down to a skirmish like a finish on wet roads covered in white paint at the end / penultimate stage of a multi-stage race, no question.

I can imagine the scenario:

DS: Righto lads. Richie: at the end of the stage, I want you to ride away from Alberto Contador, Sammy Sanchez, Rojas and Pieter Weening, and whoever else manages to make the final selection.
Richie: No problem.
Clinic:

It's all well and good coming up with tactics, but executing them? Not always so simple.

Like Bruyneel master tactician. When you're 10-15% stronger than everyone else. Tactics? Tactics are easy...

 

[Carols]

So has Porte surpassed Froome in the "most absurd and unexpected improvement" category now? I'm still on the fence.

For me it's pretty much a tie....two incredible borgs...donkeys to racehorses

 

[roundabout]

So Arroyo was punching above his weight but Porte wasn't?

Given the conditions of the stage, wasn't it raining/bad weather? So most guys would be wearing rain jackets, so the peloton probably didn't see the 'White Jersey' head up the road, also guessing in 2010 no one in the peloton knew what Porte looked like including his teammates. By the time they realized that Porte was in the break it was probably too late to pull it back. I seem to recall that break had 40+ guys in it at one point, with most teams having a couple of guys in it.

Also this 'it was his first GT ride' is silly. Jan Ullrich came 2nd in his first GT other guys have won their maiden GT ride, without using a breakaway to gain a high GC placing.

No, I am pretty sure Ullrich raced the 95 Vuelta.

And I would say that a guy who had been racing on the road for 3 years up to that point had more potential for improvement than a guy who had been pro for almost a decade and raced multiple GTs.

 

[roundabout]

Not to mention that in the key GC stages of that race:

Montalcino:
5 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +12"
16 Richie PORTE SAX +1'42"

Terminillo:
17 Richie PORTE SAX +1'22"
20 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +1'50"

L'Aquila:
8 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +7"
13 Richie PORTE SAX +21"

Asolo:
12 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +2'25"
24 Richie PORTE SAX +4'46"

Zoncolan:
11 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +3'50"
18 Richie PORTE SAX +5'46"

Kronplatz:
16 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +2'16"
17 Richie PORTE SAX +2'17"

Aprica:
7 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +3'06"
14 Richie PORTE SAX +5'31"

Tonale:
5 David ARROYO DURÁN GCE +41"
19 Richie PORTE SAX +1'42"

If we compare Arroyo's previous Giri, then these performances (in terms of where he comes on the high mountain stages) aren't too out of the ordinary:

2007:
Montevergine (stage 8): 8th +7"
Santuario Nostra Signora della Guardia (stage 10): 11th +52"
Briançon (stage 12): 11th +2'39"
Santuario di Oropa (stage 13): 18th +1'43"
Tre Cime (stage 15): 11th +6'07"
Zoncolan (stage 17): 27th +4'26"

2009:
San Martino di Castrozza (stage 4): 10th +m.t.
Alpe di Siusi (stage 5): 8th +22"
Pinerolo (stage 10): 5th +26"
Monte Petrano (stage 16): 12th +2'51"
Blockhaus (stage 17): 17th +3'18"
Vesuvio (stage 19): 11th +1'15"

Arroyo wasn't a total scrub. However, he was unceremoniously returned to the area on the very fringe of the top 10 contenders where he belonged in 2011. Arroyo was the perfect foil in that kind of situation. He didn't have a sudden step up in form like Pereiro did and suddenly stay with the best; Arroyo lost time to Basso, Nibali, Scarponi and usually Evans on pretty much every major mountain stage, finishing roughly where you expected him to, only with L'Aquila, he was suddenly in a position to win. He was good enough to make the big guns sweat, and make them make the racing exciting early, but not good enough to ride with them on all the major climbs like Pereiro was in 2006. He also had some depleted domestique corps with Bruseghin having abandoned early, and much of the work on the climbs was done by Jeannesson and Urán. Remember, without that break he's at 15 minutes. In his previous 2 attempts at the Giro he'd been 10th at 12 minutes, and 11th at 13, so if anything he lost more time than expected in the big GC stages. Porte, at the time a neo-pro, didn't show the ability to stay with Arroyo on most climbs, and only on Terminillo did he outpace the Caisse d'Epargne man, however Arroyo at 30 was in the midst of peak years whereas Porte was still learning his craft.

I was mainly referring to the last 2 stages. He was 40ish seconds back when starting the climb to Aprica, but there was a right group ahead and his group was looking around at each other.

And he was 4th I think on the Tonale out of the favorites. Nothing in the previous stages suggested that he could do that.

In 2007 I think he got 4 or 5 minutes from a break when Arvesen won the stage, but I'll have to check if he was there.

Edit: he gained 4.19 on that stage

Edit 2: and it's difficult to compare like for like. 2009 was a rather "soft" route. Easier to be closer.

 

[leon7766]

Other riders cannot train hard?

Its the all round clean package that Sky bring. One of the elements being training harder than others

 

[leon7766]

Grit? wouldn't that be an 'alien substance', lucky it's not on the banned list yet.

John Wayne had it

 

[leon7766]

To be taken very seriously. Very seriously.

Some people would say thats the first time you have been right in a long time .(not me though as it seems i get in trouble with authority pretty easily )

 

[leon7766]

Porte looking like he had a few pints the night before.

Looking fresh.

Its what you are taught at Sky ,no matter how bad you are feeling dont let the oppo know .Its called the lady GA GA method Poker Face

 

[leon7766]

CN race report mentions the Sky team tactics. And tactics definitely make a difference when it comes down to a skirmish like a finish on wet roads covered in white paint at the end / penultimate stage of a multi-stage race, no question.

I can imagine the scenario:

DS: Righto lads. Richie: at the end of the stage, I want you to ride away from Alberto Contador, Sammy Sanchez, Rojas and Pieter Weening, and whoever else manages to make the final selection.
Richie: No problem.
Clinic:

It's all well and good coming up with tactics, but executing them? Not always so simple.

It takes a lot of hard work which is what Sky put in

 

[LaFlorecita]

Its the all round clean package that Sky bring. One of the elements being training harder than others

You didn't answer my question. Other riders can't train as hard as sky?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I was mainly referring to the last 2 stages. He was 40ish seconds back when starting the climb to Aprica, but there was a right group ahead and his group was looking around at each other.

And he was 4th I think on the Tonale out of the favorites. Nothing in the previous stages suggested that he could do that.

In 2007 I think he got 4 or 5 minutes from a break when Arvesen won the stage, but I'll have to check if he was there.

Edit: he gained 4.19 on that stage

Edit 2: and it's difficult to compare like for like. 2009 was a rather "soft" route. Easier to be closer.

Arroyo was 2 minutes down at the top of the Mortirolo, he was 40 seconds behind at the base of Aprica due to his incredible descent, which is not something that a sudden dope program steps up. The Gavia stage was controlled by Liquigas and raced very conservatively by the favourites once the attack group with Vino and Sastre was neutralized. I'm just not seeing a major step up from Arroyo there, when, if you take the L'Aquila bonus time away from him, he finished further away from the victor than he did in 2007 or 2009, and he lost time on every GC stage.

The guy was 5th to Montalcino using some cyclocross experience from when he was a junior. That was the more eye-opening ride in terms of his capabilities than most of the climbing performances.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Before:

After:

Dang that chin

 

[roundabout]

He was 8th out of the favorites over Mortirolo. He had Evans within his sights. Nothing in that Giro suggested that he could do that.

And I'll repeat it again.

He got 4 minutes in a break in 2007 and 2009 had an easier route than 2010.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

At last found okay footage from yesterday, seems road rage is Sky's new marginal gain:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=f7B-7RPCFEM#t=528s

versus

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=CiujKtxX_ME#t=171s

 

[Ferminal]

He was 8th out of the favorites over Mortirolo. He had Evans within his sights. Nothing in that Giro suggested that he could do that.

And I'll repeat it again.

He got 4 minutes in a break in 2007 and 2009 had an easier route than 2010.

Pereiro > Arroyo.

But both were probably lifers, I don't think you can put the reasonable improvement later in their careers down to a sudden decision to begin doping.

 

[cineteq]

[/IMG]

Dang that chin

Perhaps a case of an android using 'roids?

You didn't answer my question. Other riders can't train as hard as sky?

You know the answer: Sky know how to use marginal gains, c'est tout.

 

[will10]

Its what you are taught at Sky ,no matter how bad you are feeling dont let the oppo know .Its called the lady GA GA method Poker Face

Wow, that sounds familiar.

It's a lot easier to not look tired when you're not tired.

 

[leon7766]

Wow, that sounds familiar.

It's a lot easier to not look tired when you're not tired.

Yes but its just as easy to not look tired when you arent pretending to look tired

 

[leon7766]

You didn't answer my question. Other riders can't train as hard as sky?

Im sorry .Yes they could but it seems as teams they dont

 

[ChewbaccaD]

What's Ritchie Porte on?

He's on his bike making marginal gains, what are you on?

 

[Gloin22]

Porte beaten by Quitnana in a TT.

That's the biggest sign so far saying to me he's on dope.

 

[spalco]

Sooo, Porte ok again now?

 

[Lanark]

Guess he was clean after all. Sorry for the insinuations the last couple of days Richie!