Richmond 2015 World Championships, Sep 19-27

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

He played it perfectly. Waited until the crucial moment.

Poor Libertine. He will have to live with Sagan as WC.

My interest in cycling has been waning for a long time now. If you notice, more and more of my posts are on course design and historical cycling and less and less is on as-it-happens current cycling. This is another nail in the coffin.

Well, get used to rewriting your history books because you will be hearing about this guy for a while.

Advise, just stick to woman's cycling and your obsession with Katarzyna Niewiadoma, because you no longer have anything valuable to contribute to the current elite men peloton discussion.

Don't be stupid. We all have riders we like or dislike, love or loathe. Sagan provides more reasons to love or hate him than most riders. Either way, anyone's attitude to one rider is hardly so important that it means they have nothing valuable to contribute to the discussion.

While I respect his knowledge and passion for cycling, his endless bashing without any reasoning is pointless and has no discussion value.

While I'm not being shy of having strong opinions either, I'm capable of providing reasons behind my opinions while he is just bashing and complaining about everything without being able to have normal discussion with anyone on this forum.

 

[More Strides than Rides]

Re:

https://instagram.com/p/8JVPhuKRSF/

Close..

Wow. I saw his stutter-pedal and thought it was a shifting problem.

You had a great view.

...

And in all honesty, I don't think Gerrans would have made a difference. Spain led from the bottom of the descent through the first dozen meters of the climb. Attacks (The announcers said Uran?) kept the pace high. The only time the pace let up was after the crest. Matthews wasn't in the first few positions as far as I can tell, and while the pace eased, only to the benefit of Matthews to get towards the front.

I don't think Gerrans had the power to drag, or Matthews the power to be dragged to the first several positions by the top of the hill, and then begin the lead out. Sagan was too far ahead.

 

[hrotha]

Re: Re:

endless bashing without any reasoning

This is blatantly false. LS spells out their reasons often enough, including in this very thread.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

To be fair, Matthews is stating things in a neutral way. Yes, he'd have preferred to have sole leadership but they had two leaders and so it is what it is.

Gerrans has won monuments and all, but is he still better at any type of race than Matthews at this point? I'm not so sure.

He's still better at Fleche type finishes and will be until he retires.

Matthews is more than capable of at least attempting what Sagan did, it's not like he can't TT or punch up a hill himself. Look at Amstel, or Montecassino at last years Giro.

Matthews had some great support today and should be looking at himself, and this is coming from a fan. He could have rolled the dice himself and come away with a similar result.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

endless bashing without any reasoning

This is blatantly false. LS spells out their reasons often enough, including in this very thread.

That's right, Libertine rationalises their dislike of riders quite eloquently and with strong justification.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

To be fair, Matthews is stating things in a neutral way. Yes, he'd have preferred to have sole leadership but they had two leaders and so it is what it is.

Gerrans has won monuments and all, but is he still better at any type of race than Matthews at this point? I'm not so sure.

He's still better at Fleche type finishes and will be until he retires.

Matthews is more than capable of at least attempting what Sagan did, it's not like he can't TT or punch up a hill himself. Look at Amstel, or Montecassino at last years Giro.

Matthews had some great support today and should be looking at himself, and this is coming from a fan. He could have rolled the dice himself and come away with a similar result.

Matthews was right to wait for a sprint. That was his best chance of winning. And if his team or anyone else had managed to bring Sagan back, he would have won. Attacking when you are the fastest guy able to make it over the hills at the front is entertaining, but it's rarely optimal.

 

[Energy Starr]

Re:

Sagan did some controversial stuff in the past, and to my knowledge he has suffered the consequences. IMO there's no need to devalue Sagan's performances by digging up these incidents. And as far as social discussions go, other parts of the forum might be more appropriate

A voice of reason!! Thank you!! He did some stuff in the past. Who hasn't. It was lighthearted stuff. Get over it.

 

[KGB]

Re: Re:

I hate cycling. **** this sport. **** everything to do with this sport. **** that guy and anyone who likes him and defends him.

I didn't really follow the news much the last couple months, what did he do again?

Groped a podium girl

Again?

Yep again.

 

[Energy Starr]

Re: Re:

[SeriousSam"]Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker![/quote]

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.[/quote]

To be fair, Matthews is stating things in a neutral way. Yes, he'd have preferred to have sole leadership but they had two leaders and so it is what it is.

Gerrans has won monuments and all, but is he still better at any type of race than Matthews at this point? I'm not so sure.[/quote]

He's still better at Fleche type finishes and will be until he retires.[/quote]
Matthews is more than capable of at least attempting what Sagan did, it's not like he can't TT or punch up a hill himself. Look at Amstel, or Montecassino at last years Giro.

Matthews had some great support today and should be looking at himself, and this is coming from a fan. He could have rolled the dice himself and come away with a similar result.[/quote]

Matthews was right to wait for a sprint. That was his best chance of winning. And if his team or anyone else had managed to bring Sagan back, he would have won. Attacking when you are the fastest guy able to make it over the hills at the front is entertaining, but it's rarely optimal.[/quote]"



He did what Sagan usually does and got what Sagan usually gets. It wasn't his day. He'll learn, like Sagan does every time he comes in second.

I'm hoping this will allow Sagan the freedom to take more chances and be ok with losing. I think if he stops being afraid of losing he will win far more. Today, he showed what he is capable of. How hard it must have been for him to take the chance. He really put himself out there today. It paid off and I hope he can do that in the future. It is all mental with him. He is more talented than anyone in pro cycling today.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

endless bashing without any reasoning

This is blatantly false. LS spells out their reasons often enough, including in this very thread.

Their? You trying to confirm that the two of you post as a collective under two different usernames?

Please, Libertine is entitled to their opinion, no need to go personal. I am yet to see them doing so with any of us, their beef is with Sagan.

Edit: Ok, another one. Is this some kind of forum joke I missed?

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

To be fair, Matthews is stating things in a neutral way. Yes, he'd have preferred to have sole leadership but they had two leaders and so it is what it is.

Gerrans has won monuments and all, but is he still better at any type of race than Matthews at this point? I'm not so sure.

He's still better at Fleche type finishes and will be until he retires.

Matthews is more than capable of at least attempting what Sagan did, it's not like he can't TT or punch up a hill himself. Look at Amstel, or Montecassino at last years Giro.

Matthews had some great support today and should be looking at himself, and this is coming from a fan. He could have rolled the dice himself and come away with a similar result.

It's still the case that Gerrans is a puncheur who can sprint and Matthews is probably the sprinter most able to deal with hills, and this is proven by the fact that yes, he was able to follow Gilbert in AGR, but doing so sapped the power from his legs, and so in the sprint he was beaten by Kwia and Bala, two riders who are much more the former category.

 

[TMP402]

Re: Re:

Valverde 5th. The real best cyclist is he who has the lowest average finishing position in the Worlds, or indeed any important race he contests, over many years

Great ride by Sagan and yes, Valverde continues to amaze. I hope he gets a wccrr win before he retires.

I fear he will win the Olympic RR next year and people will pretend it makes up for all the Worlds podiums, but we'll all still know the truth.

 

[jaylew]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

Had Gerrans worked Matthews is probably World Champion.

That would have been something. Much of the forum would have blown a gasket at Bling winning while simultaneously gaining respect for Gerrans.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

I hate cycling. **** this sport. **** everything to do with this sport. **** that guy and anyone who likes him and defends him.

I didn't really follow the news much the last couple months, what did he do again?

Groped a podium girl

Again?

Yep again.

Sorry if I'm miss reading this. Are you saying he did this twice?

 

[Kwibus]

Re: Re:

Sagan saying he won for the people in the world because there's some stuff going on in Europe. I hate that cringeworthy **** where athletes feel the need to play insightful commentators of world affairs.

He didn't say he "won for" them. He just said he wanted to spare a mention for... well... whatever the hell he was talking about. Top athletes have a big audience hanging onto their words and they have the ability to draw attention to issues. If they want to speak about it, then good for them. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as it's sincere.

And it was pretty admirable for him to try and say that despite not having the English to articulate his thoughts.

My thoughts exactly when I heared him talk. I was like wth are you talking about at first, but I noticed his sincerety regarding the matter which he couldn't really explain in english though, but he tried.

 

[jaylew]

Kristoff on EBH and Noway team tactics:

"He was supposed to not work but then maybe if he had caught Sagan they would have stopped working. It’s all easy to say afterwards but he was told to follow the attacks and not to work. Then he could win the sprint from the front or I could try and win from the back."

A shame. EBH probably could have had a podium and who knows, maybe they could have joined Sagan if they had worked full out together.

Groped a podium girl

Again?

Yep again.

Sorry if I'm miss reading this. Are you saying he did this twice?

We obviously would have heard about any recent incident.

 

[goggalor]

Re:

Kristoff on EBH and Noway team tactics:

"He was supposed to not work but then maybe if he had caught Sagan they would have stopped working. It’s all easy to say afterwards but he was told to follow the attacks and not to work. Then he could win the sprint from the front or I could try and win from the back."

A shame. EBH probably could have had a podium and who knows, maybe they could have joined Sagan if they had worked full out together.

Unfortunately EBH's ability to make tactical decisions on the fly is not always the best. He used to have a strong killer instinct which he would typically trust in these situations, but I think that was beaten out of him at Sky.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

It's well known that Australia had two leaders during this race, and that gerrans and matthews aren't the best of team-mates.

The more interesting situation is where Matthews ends up in 2017 - You'd expect matthews to attract lucrative offers if he continues his rate of improvement in 2017.

 

[Hugo Koblet]

Congratulations Sagan! Very well deserved victory. Great to see aggressive riding paying off.

 

[greenedge]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

It's well known that Australia had two leaders during this race, and that gerrans and matthews aren't the best of team-mates.

The more interesting situation is where Matthews ends up in 2017 - You'd expect matthews to attract lucrative offers if he continues his rate of improvement in 2017.

Matthews is 10 years younger than Gerrans though, if anyone leaves you'd presume it would be Gerrans who'd probably be retiring by 2018.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

endless bashing without any reasoning

This is blatantly false. LS spells out their reasons often enough, including in this very thread.

That's right, Libertine rationalises their dislike of riders quite eloquently and with strong justification.

But to be honest LS lost their cool quite a bit this time

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: Re:

endless bashing without any reasoning

This is blatantly false. LS spells out their reasons often enough, including in this very thread.

Their? You trying to confirm that the two of you post as a collective under two different usernames?

Please, Libertine is entitled to their opinion, no need to go personal. I am yet to see them doing so with any of us, their beef is with Sagan.

Edit: Ok, another one. Is this some kind of forum joke I missed?

Many of us don't know if Libertine is a lady or a gent. I believe LS is female but I am not sure.

 

[dirkprovin]

Re: Re:

Matthews apparently not happy Gerrans didn't work for him.

Edit: Omg, beaten to the bunch by a Gerrans esque wheelsucker!

If what Matthews says is true I'm disappointed in Gerrans, but disappointed in Matthews as well for airing it in public.

It's well known that Australia had two leaders during this race, and that gerrans and matthews aren't the best of team-mates.

The more interesting situation is where Matthews ends up in 2017 - You'd expect matthews to attract lucrative offers if he continues his rate of improvement in 2017.

Matthews is 10 years younger than Gerrans though, if anyone leaves you'd presume it would be Gerrans who'd probably be retiring by 2018.

I think GE has the more accurate read. Matthews' contract expires the end of 2016 and whilst he's certainly in for a major pay rise; I'm struggling to see where he find a more comfortable home as regards support at the races he targets/

Gerrans' 3 year deal finishes the end of 2017 at which point he will be 37 and most probably eyeing retirement. Gerrans' has, justifiably, been the no1 man at OGE on the grounds of what results he's brought in but with some sensible management any such issues can/should be settled in the interests of team results, team harmony and developing the major talents in the team of which Matthews is currently at the top.

The only key one day race where their "interests" really cross paths is Amstel. Otherwise MSR is Matthews show, LBL is Gerrans (with 2nd options a Yates), F-W is Albasini's playground (with either Yates or maybe Chaves as planB). Vattenfels - Gerrans, San Sebastian - Gerrans or a Yates; the 2 Canadian races will be which one of them that's NOT at the Vuelta.

Matthews is as much a key asset "going forward" for OGE as either Yates or Chaves and it will be in their interests to get any of these issues "sorted". Matthews also knows that whilst there may be some big $$ thrown at him by other teams; its questionable whether they'd be as good a "fit" for him personally OR whether he's have the same level of support in races/"security" with his race schedule.

 

[jsem94]

Re: Re:

Many of us don't know if Libertine is a lady or a gent. I believe LS is female but I am not sure.

So much is unknown about the phenom that is LS.

To be fair, this is one of the most impersonal message boards I know of, so it's not surprising we don't get to know much about the people behind the avatars.

 

[wienerschnizzel]

I've never understood one thing - why do pepole say that Sagan is an @-hole? The worst things I've ever see him do were childish and inconsiderate, but never aggressive or mean. He never bad-mouths anybody, never tells anybody to f-off, never whines and never boasts about his greatness. You know, none of the things that you would usually associate with a "d1ck" or an "@-hole".

Other than that Vuelta incident (where honestly, how do you react to somebody doing something stupid and dangerous around you in traffic?) can you give me an example of Sagan being mean or aggressive. You know, generally d1ckish as opposed to just childish?