Riders to watch in 2012

[greenedge]

My problem with his winning was NOT how he did it. It was that he was racing for a team I didn't want to see win. When he was identified in the large group, I think he was the only HTC? He may have had one domestique there. But nobody else who was a realistic option for the win, and hence he was the last person in that group I wanted to see win. Not because of Matthew Goss the rider, or how he behaves on the bike. But because I did not want to see that team win, even on those rare occasions that they were being interesting.

Don't worry next year he will win on GE. How many other sprinters do you think would be able to stay in a group of 8;
Cancellara ( who put in attacks in most of the classics this year and has won many classics )
Gilbert who had a great season
Offredo ( has potential )
Pozzato another proven classics winner
Nibali had just won a GT and would come 3rd at the Giro
Scarponi ( maybe a bit tired after having to chase back but came 2nd at the Giro )
Ballan ( a previous WC )

Goss was up against fierce competition ( all excluding Offredo were renowned ) and unlike Ballan( GVA ) and Cancellara ( O'Grady ) he did not have a teammate at the end or even really on the Poggio.

And that is taking your obsession too far by hating Goss just because he rode for HTC. HTC did develop quite a few good riders ( TJVG/ Degenkolb ) and gave others great opportunities like Martin/ Velits.

 

[greenedge]

So Kruijswijk has 2 more years. Great. Not to mention the great field of that particular Giro.

1. Juan José - I'm a big joke- Cobo
2. Chris - I've never done anything in my career - Froome
3. Bradley - I'm still recovering from my crash at the Tour - Wiggins
4. Bauke Mollema
5. Dennis - I lost a lot of time for no apparent reason on a silly stage not to mention I suck this year and working for my leader - Menchov
6. Maxim - I'm not even a climber - Monfort
7. Vincenzo - I screwed my peak up - Nibali
8. Jurgen - I'm still recovering from a collapsed lung, broken shoulder-blade and broken ribs - Van den Broeck.
9. Daniel - lol - Moreno.
10. Mikel - I deserve where I stand - Nieve.

Kruijswijk did the Giro. So why underneath that quote did you put your list of Vuelta winners???

Moreno was not that bad. He got a stage win and helped JROD win 2 others. He came 2nd also to Gadret in a stage at the Giro JROD would not have been so close to P in F-W if it was not for Moreno helping to pull him back. Also Cobo did well ( he won a GT which is a feat for anyone ) and Froome has now done something in his career ( finishing 2nd )

 

[greenedge]

If Mattias Frank wins on Wilunga Hill, I will give you complete control over my avatar for the entirety of 2012. If he doesn't, you have to post at least 100 times during the Tour without using the words "Cadel" or "Evans".

But what if Cadel wins. Surely you could not begrudge him then.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Don't worry next year he will win on GE. How many other sprinters do you think would be able to stay in a group of 8;
Cancellara ( who put in attacks in most of the classics this year and has won many classics )
Gilbert who had a great season
Offredo ( has potential )
Pozzato another proven classics winner
Nibali had just won a GT and would come 3rd at the Giro
Scarponi ( maybe a bit tired after having to chase back but came 2nd at the Giro )
Ballan ( a previous WC )

Goss was up against fierce competition ( all excluding Offredo were renowned ) and unlike Ballan( GVA ) and Cancellara ( O'Grady ) he did not have a teammate at the end or even really on the Poggio.

And that is taking your obsession too far by hating Goss just because he rode for HTC. HTC did develop quite a few good riders ( TJVG/ Degenkolb ) and gave others great opportunities like Martin/ Velits.

At no point am I criticising Goss' riding in that race. He was brilliant that day and did everything he had to do to win the race. What he did was the smart option, and as a result the successful option. I don't have a problem with how he rode and don't see why you need to defend the way he rode. I don't hate Goss either, never said I did. I just didn't want him to win, and his riding for HTC was a main reason for that. I wanted Offredo (the biggest underdog in the group), Scarponi (the rider of the day) or Gilbert (I hadn't yet got bored of his Classics superman act because it hadn't really started yet) to win, and Goss was #8 on my list out of those 8.

It's the same as how before the Tour I didn't want Cadel Evans to win. Not because I dislike Evans or want to see him fail, but because there were other riders in contention who I like more and want to see them win instead.

 

[El Pistolero]

Kruijswijk did the Giro. So why underneath that quote did you put your list of Vuelta winners???

Moreno was not that bad. He got a stage win and helped JROD win 2 others. He came 2nd also to Gadret in a stage at the Giro JROD would not have been so close to P in F-W if it was not for Moreno helping to pull him back. Also Cobo did well ( he won a GT which is a feat for anyone ) and Froome has now done something in his career ( finishing 2nd )

Moreno was not bad, but the guy is no climber and wouldn't make it in the top 20 of the Tour without getting in a breakaway. And we were talking about Kruiswyck AND Mollema. Mollema's fourth place in the Vuelta came from weak competition. Just like Garate's fourth place in the Giro. In other words, Mollema might never become a real GT contender. At the Tour, he lacked.

As for Froome, the guy's ridiculous. Cobo would have never won a GT other than the weak Vuelta. The guy is a mental train wreck and I fear we won't see him much next season. And the fact that he doesn't want to leave Gianetti is extremely suspicious... And he still doesn't have a team as far as I know.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

It's not on TV here, sadly. T-A is, however. Doesn't seem fair.

it's on eurosport so it's basically on everywhere in europe and if you don't live in europe then don't make assumptions on if a race is big and on tv or not

 

[Zam_Olyas]

Scarponi at tdf.

 

[auscyclefan94]

Scarponi at tdf.

I'll be watching go out of contention at the Tour.

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I'll be watching go out of contention at the Tour.

but you will still be "watching" him as in riders to watch in 2012

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Goss was hardly a surprise win when half the peloton with all the sprinters got elminated long before the final. I knew he won Milan-San Remo the moment I saw his name in the remaining peloton. Nick Nuyens already got second at the Ronde once, he was no surprise Monument winner. He's better than everything Rabo has and when he was on Rabo he unsurprisingly sucked. Johan Vansummeren is also much better than anything Rabobank has for the cobbles. Hardly a surprise to see him win from a breakaway. And everyone was saying this was a potential scenario with everyone looking at Cancellara. So no, it wasn't a big surprise to see someone win P-R from a breakaway.

Zaugg was the only true surprise as far as I know. And I doubt it will ever happen again with Lombardia changing dates.

Ps: no, Rabo is not getting better. They're getting weaker. They used to have Rasmussen, Freire, Menchov, Erik Dekker, Michael Boogerd(at least he podiumed the Ardennes classics and used to be a decentish domestique) etc
Now they have no big star at all

So what if Kruiswyck did a top 10 in a Giro? Marco Pinotti has a top 10 in a Giro. Even Manuel Garate has 3 top tens in a Giro! What did Mollema win this year exactly? How was Gesink's year? They lost the Dutchies who brought in some of their biggest victories this season: Sebastian Langeveld and Pieter Weening.

lol a blind guy could tell you don't like rabo/dutch, I mean I could say the same about lotto and such, but I aint such a sour jeleaous loser like you.
If you read my post I refer to the youngsters constantly improving. Kruijswijk also won queen stage at suisse and took podium btw. Mollema had a very good season, Gesink was injury ridden and still had some good results (I guess bu your logic VDB is a total hack cause he crashed out at the tour). Boom showed progress (lol at your johan van summeran and nuyens bs) etc.

I also assume you missed the point where I said rabo are concerned with building up dutch talents, and are currently doing a good job considering the young guns in the team. I'd rather have a team like this year, where young dutch riders can improve and be competitve in many races (considering rabo don't have any stars, they sure do well on rankkings and such, a well rounded team ). I like that they have a guy amongst the top 5-10 in every race. Better IMo then riding for Menchov, I'd rather see the dutch youngsters get thier own chance and improve. Meanwhile the espoirs team keep producing talents. But yep, they are getting worse. Indeed. Your foresight is amazing

Advice, don't let your hatrid of the dutch affect your opinion.

ANd yes Goss was hardly a surprise after the race had devolped. Beforehand not many were touting him as a chance, nor nuyens or JvS. Say otherwise if you wish

anyway this argument has gone on to long, you are to stubborn to even try to argue against. I'll move on

---

@scarponi going tdf. I don't like it.

 

[Havetts]

Disappointing, does he fear the Basso confrontation!?

 

[El Pistolero]

Why would I be a sour jealous loser? Should I be jealous of Rabobank lol? Of what exactly?

I could care less about Rabobank developing Dutch talent. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of all these nationalistic teams.

And yes, a lot of people were saying a breakaway victory at Paris-Roubaix was possible. Re-read the threads around April or newspaper articles. And that's exactly what happened: Cancellara had a weak team and a big group with some dangerous people in it got away. Fabian failed to reel them in, as many suspected, and the best guy from the breakaway won. In this case, it was Johan Vansummeren. Yes, Vansummeren was a surprise winner in the sense that a lot of people could have won from a breakaway. But the breakaway scenario was no surprise to anyone following this sport.

Nick Nuyens already got second once at the Ronde van Vlaanderen in 2008. Won Dwars door Vlaanderen before the Ronde started, so he clearly was in good shape. He has already proven him on the cobbles quite a few times with victories at the Omloop het Volk and Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne. It was a surprise that Cancellara didn't win, but Nuyens was in no way a surprise winner like Oliver Zaugg.

As for Milan-San Remo. Like I said, Goss was no surprise. He proved that already with his silver medal at the Worlds this year and he already won quite a few races before the start of Milan-San Remo. The surprise of Milan-San Remo were the crashes that tore up the peloton. Not the winner.

It's not my fault that Rabobank ride like losers and it has nothing to do with me hating the Dutch. If riding like how they did in Amstel Gold Race is not riding like losers then I don't know what is.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

lol i couldn't resist replying.

Obviously the breakaway scenario was no surprise, however I didn't see anyone suggesting JVS was gonna go win prior to such a situation. With that logic every single rider at the race can win. My god I can't believe your stupidity and inability to understand a simple point.

And yes use one race as an example, bravo. The rabobank riders were cramping up and AGR and couldn't compete on the final hill so there losers. Maybe they should dope up to the eye balls to please you. BTW imo 3 in the top 10 is always a good effort. Basically that just proves my point to thier depth, I agree they are lacking the winner still. But hopefully some of the young dutch promising riders will become just that

Disappointing, does he fear the Basso confrontation!?

haha maybe. Giro line up looks a little weak i think, we'll see.

 

[greenedge]

And yes, a lot of people were saying a breakaway victory at Paris-Roubaix was possible. Re-read the threads around April or newspaper articles. And that's exactly what happened: Cancellara had a weak team and a big group with some dangerous people in it got away. Fabian failed to reel them in, as many suspected, and the best guy from the breakaway won. In this case, it was Johan Vansummeren. Yes, Vansummeren was a surprise winner in the sense that a lot of people could have won from a breakaway. But the breakaway scenario was no surprise to anyone following this sport.

Nick Nuyens already got second once at the Ronde van Vlaanderen in 2008. Won Dwars door Vlaanderen before the Ronde started, so he clearly was in good shape. He has already proven him on the cobbles quite a few times with victories at the Omloop het Volk and Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne. It was a surprise that Cancellara didn't win, but Nuyens was in no way a surprise winner like Oliver Zaugg. The surprise of Milan-San Remo were the crashes that tore up the peloton. Not the winner.

I think Hayman was just as strong but he wasted himself covering every move. He still then beat Flecha in results. I considered Nuyuens to be a contender who had good form but i did not expect the race to play out like that.
I picked Zaugg as a person who could win GDL. I agree with you about M-SR causing the winner, though i am sure the race still would have been quite aggressive.

 

[movingtarget]

Why would I be a sour jealous loser? Should I be jealous of Rabobank lol? Of what exactly?

I could care less about Rabobank developing Dutch talent. Frankly, I'm sick and tired of all these nationalistic teams.

And yes, a lot of people were saying a breakaway victory at Paris-Roubaix was possible. Re-read the threads around April or newspaper articles. And that's exactly what happened: Cancellara had a weak team and a big group with some dangerous people in it got away. Fabian failed to reel them in, as many suspected, and the best guy from the breakaway won. In this case, it was Johan Vansummeren. Yes, Vansummeren was a surprise winner in the sense that a lot of people could have won from a breakaway. But the breakaway scenario was no surprise to anyone following this sport.

Nick Nuyens already got second once at the Ronde van Vlaanderen in 2008. Won Dwars door Vlaanderen before the Ronde started, so he clearly was in good shape. He has already proven him on the cobbles quite a few times with victories at the Omloop het Volk and Kuurne-Brussel-Kuurne. It was a surprise that Cancellara didn't win, but Nuyens was in no way a surprise winner like Oliver Zaugg.

As for Milan-San Remo. Like I said, Goss was no surprise. He proved that already with his silver medal at the Worlds this year and he already won quite a few races before the start of Milan-San Remo. The surprise of Milan-San Remo were the crashes that tore up the peloton. Not the winner.

It's not my fault that Rabobank ride like losers and it has nothing to do with me hating the Dutch. If riding like how they did in Amstel Gold Race is not riding like losers then I don't know what is.

National teams create as many problems as they solve and there is always rivalries. I think the Basque carrots need to branch out as well to be more successful. I still think they would attract funding even with riders of other nationalities apart from Sanchez who oddly enough is their best credentialled rider anyway.

 

[El Pistolero]

lol i couldn't resist replying.

Obviously the breakaway scenario was no surprise, however I didn't see anyone suggesting JVS was gonna go win prior to such a situation. With that logic every single rider at the race can win. My god I can't believe your stupidity and inability to understand a simple point.

And yes use one race as an example, bravo. The rabobank riders were cramping up and AGR and couldn't compete on the final hill so there losers. Maybe they should dope up to the eye balls to please you. BTW imo 3 in the top 10 is always a good effort. Basically that just proves my point to thier depth, I agree they are lacking the winner still. But hopefully some of the young dutch promising riders will become just that

haha maybe. Giro line up looks a little weak i think, we'll see.

With Rabo's classics field they would struggle to even win a classic from a breakaway with their strongest riders.

If you want to rely on freak accidents like in Milan-San Remo or race mentalities like in the cobbled classics(with everyone sucking wheel except Cancellara) then yeah Rabobank can win a Monument. Just like I can win the lottery. Thing is: it won't happen for Rabobank like I won't win the lottery

Unless Breschel regains his 2010 legs of course.

As for you hoping that some of the promising Dutch riders become big winners, it's is just that: hope. They need a big winner, like every good team needs one. If they're going to wait until a Dutch rider becomes one they're going to have to wait for a long long time.

Besides I don't hate Dutch cyclists like you are quick to judge. It just happens to be that the most entertaining Dutch cyclists are not with Rabobank: Wout Poels, Johnny Hoogerland, Sebastian Langeveld, Pim Ligthart and Rob Ruijgh.

And the fact they have a lot of cyclists in the the top 10 doesn't prove their depth. It proves that they're incapable of working for a leader at Rabobank and that a lot of their cyclists just aren't good enough to win decent races. It also proves their tactical ineptitude. Who was talking about doping anyway? Are you implying that a team can only get good results through doping? Then why are you hoping that the young promising cyclists become big winners? I bet you didn't think about that huh

 

[theyoungest]

National teams create as many problems as they solve and there is always rivalries. I think the Basque carrots need to branch out as well to be more successful. I still think they would attract funding even with riders of other nationalities apart from Sanchez who oddly enough is their best credentialled rider anyway.

The only teams that currently seem to find funding are precisely those national teams. The only truly "international" team, and it was even the most successful team in the world, recently folded...

 

[El Pistolero]

The only teams that currently seem to find funding are precisely those national teams. The only truly "international" team, and it was even the most successful team in the world, recently folded...

Quickstep is an international team.

Garmin is an international team.

Vacansoleil has a lot of foreign cyclists, I wouldn't call them international, but I also wouldn't call them a nationalistic team.

BMC is quite the international team as well with Belgian, Norwegian, Italian, and Australian star cyclists.

Radioshack-Nissan is also not a nationalistic team and are sadly doing quite well.

Saxobank wouldn't mind extra Danish cyclists, but they're not an nationalistic team and can be called international as well.

Astana is a tricky fish: after Vino will be retired the team will mostly be dominated by foreign cyclists(like in the Contador days), but that's just because there's a lack of good Kazakh cyclists. If there were as many good Kazakh cyclists as Russians they'd be another Katusha in a heartbeat. But that is not the case