Riders to watch in 2012

[Ryo Hazuki]

so their tour team will have 4 leaders + a breakaway dude who wants to do his own thing?

Bauke mollema
steven kruiswyck
robert gesink
mark renshaw
luis leon sanchez

and bmc has too many chiefs?

3-0


..........

 

[theyoungest]

3-0


..........

Yes, it would be quite a good riposte... that is if I ever said that BMC have too many chiefs. And frankly, if you have Cadel Evans and Philippe Gilbert on board, it's also a little easier to determine who actually are your chiefs. If I were Kruijswijk, I wouldn't be content with the certainty that I had to work for Mollema just now.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

the thing is you are always quick tod efend rabobank. the discussion was that rabo don't holdto their policy at all of simply acquiring foreigners only if they add something significant to the team that can't be found in netherlands. it's simply not true but you keep wurming yourself into corners. often I think you actually getpaid by rabobank to defend the team here on this forum somehow

 

[theyoungest]

the thing is you are always quick tod efend rabobank. the discussion was that rabo don't holdto their policy at all of simply acquiring foreigners only if they add something significant to the team that can't be found in netherlands. it's simply not true but you keep wurming yourself into corners.

Lol. "It's simply not true." You know that it is possible to disagree with you, right? There are plenty of arguments for it as well.

often I think you actually getpaid by rabobank to defend the team here on this forum somehow

No. I like a sense of nuance, which some seem to lack completely. I don't think Rabobank is that exciting as a team, but the nonsense I sometimes get to read on this forum almost makes me like them.

 

[roundabout]

I'm sure I have. Not sure I remember them though.

The only rider who has really developed on BMC is Mathias Frank.

I like Frank but I wouldn't say that he has really developed just because he had a great 10 days in June this year.

 

[theyoungest]

I like Frank but I wouldn't say that he has really developed just because he had a great 10 days in June this year.

Don't tell ACF

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

So their Tour team will have 4 leaders + a breakaway dude who wants to do his own thing?

Bauke Mollema
Steven Kruiswyck
Robert Gesink
Mark Renshaw
Luis Leon Sanchez

And BMC has too many chiefs?

No Barredo?

luis leon was a bad signing at the time I know I said it a million times he is so overrated and he did indeed suck hard

Overrated maybe, but his 2009 and 2010 seasons were good to very good respectively. He was a Paris-Nice contender, with top results in other medium mountain type stage races.

He only started to suck horribly in 2011.

They have 72 riders under contract, which makes them the "biggest" team in the world. They don't have any huge earners on their team. And their policy is to develop Dutch riders, only signing foreign ones in the fields where Dutch cyclists lack, or still have to grow.

They could also have gone the BMC way, signing the cream of the crop, but without any development whatsoever. You choose.

False dilemma.

Besides, it's not even true.

They signed Renshaw because the sponsor wanted another Aussie, and a big name at that, not because he was needed in the team to develop Dutch riders (Bos). Yeah, that was the official version, but come on now.

When it became apparent that they couldn't get Goss, they should have stopped right there. But no. They had to have a top-level Australian rider. I guess they didn't get the memo, though, that Renshaw is only top-level as a leadout man. He plain sucks as a sprinter.

Maybe they would do better with a smaller budget and less foreign riders. Renshaw can't be the only rider who is overpaid apart from LL. I'm thinking Breschel and Barredo, too.


Biggest team in the world? If you include women's cycling, and sports other than road cycling, sure. Irrelevant, though.

 

[El Pistolero]

No Barredo?

He has shown to be a good team-mate already.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

He has shown to be a good team-mate already.

So has Kruiswijck at the Vuelta. Two of the three Dutch GC hopefuls will be relegated to domestiques regardless if one of them can top 10.

 

[theyoungest]

False dilemma.

Besides, it's not even true.

They signed Renshaw because the sponsor wanted another Aussie, and a big name at that, not because he was needed in the team to develop Dutch riders (Bos). Yeah, that was the official version, but come on now.

When it became apparent that they couldn't get Goss, they should have stopped right there. But no. They had to have a top-level Australian rider. I guess they didn't get the memo, though, that Renshaw is only top-level as a leadout man. He plain sucks as a sprinter.

Yes, they also have a sponsor interest in Australia. But it's clear their leadout train (if you can call it that) just plain sucked until now, so signing Renshaw to bolster their sprinting squad is not the worst thing they could have done. Even if he's the one who wants to win the sprints himself, at least he brings some experience to the table which is now totally lacking. He can do better than their current sprinters simply by positioning himself, he doesn't even need to be very fast.

Maybe they would do better with a smaller budget and less foreign riders. Renshaw can't be the only rider who is overpaid apart from LL. I'm thinking Breschel and Barredo, too.

Breschel, as I understood it, makes about as much as Boom, half a million or so. That's not overpaid.

Biggest team in the world? If you include women's cycling, and sports other than road cycling, sure. Irrelevant, though.

You completely missed my point. Rabo have a big budget, but an ungodly number of riders and personnel to pay from that budget as well (hence the "biggest" between quotation marks). And their budget isn't as big as BMC, Sky, or Shack Trek to begin with.

 

[Cake42]

I hope Matti Breschel will have a GREAT year.
David Tanner from Saxo-Bank, is a man to watch in 2012.....

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Breschel, as I understood it, makes about as much as Boom, half a million or so. That's not overpaid.

Not at the time he signed the contract, no. The same goes for Luis Leon, I'd imagine. I'm talking about the present, though. I don't have much faith in Breschel anymore.

You completely missed my point. Rabo have a big budget, but an ungodly number of riders and personnel to pay from that budget as well (hence the "biggest" between quotation marks). And their budget isn't as big as BMC, Sky, or Shack Trek to begin with.

A large chunk > 10 million will still go to their pro team, tough. I never said that their budget was as big as BMC's. It's just that they have little to show for it when you look at high profile wins, or podiums. Other teams fare better in that regard. I'd take Liquigas over Rabobank for sure, for example.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Breschel, as I understood it, makes about as much as Boom, half a million or so. That's not overpaid.

Not at the time he signed the contract, no. The same goes for Luis Leon, I'd imagine. I'm talking about the present, though. I don't have much faith in Breschel anymore.

Boom is overpaid for other reasons.

You completely missed my point. Rabo have a big budget, but an ungodly number of riders and personnel to pay from that budget as well (hence the "biggest" between quotation marks). And their budget isn't as big as BMC, Sky, or Shack Trek to begin with.

A large chunk > 10 million will still go to their pro team, tough. I never said that their budget was as big as BMC's. It's just that they have little to show for it when you consider high profile wins, or podiums. Other teams fare better in that regard. I'd take Liquigas over Rabobank for sure, for example.

 

[gustienordic]

Not at the time he signed the contract, no. The same goes for Luis Leon, I'd imagine. I'm talking about the present, though. I don't have much faith in Breschel anymore.

Boom is overpaid for other reasons.

The problem is that Sanchez had a great year in 2010, got offered a bit more money, then sucked in 2011. I think he still can perform at the highest level, I hope he is up there again this year, I like him.

 

[killswitch]

Peter Stetina
Fabian Wegmann
Rafael Majka

 

[theyoungest]

A large chunk > 10 million will still go to their pro team, tough. I never said that their budget was as big as BMC's. It's just that they have little to show for it when you consider high profile wins, or podiums. Other teams fare better in that regard. I'd take Liquigas over Rabobank for sure, for example.

What big races did Liquigas win this year?

 

[The Hitch]

What big races did Liquigas win this year?

Tour of Poland.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

What big races did Liquigas win this year?

You're twisting my words again. I've gotten used to it, though.


For the record, I said high profile wins or podiums. And nowhere did I say this year only.

This season wasn't up to last year's standards, obviously, but they reached the podium at the Giro and had a bunch of high profile stage wins at the Vuelta.

 

[theyoungest]

You're twisting my words again. I've gotten used to it, though.

For the record, I said high profile wins or podiums. And nowhere did I say this year only.

This season wasn't up to last year's standards, obviously, but they reached the podium at the Giro and had a bunch of high profile stage wins at the Vuelta.

How is a podium in Tirreno, Pais Vasco, Suisse, Paris-Roubaix, and stage wins at the Tour and Giro, less than that? If we take a longer timespan, obviously Liquigas won hands down last year (even though Rabo won Milan-San Remo and podiumed at the Tour) but the year before that, Rabo won two stages + the overall in the Giro no less, and a Tour stage, versus Romandie and two Giro stages for Liquigas.

I can understand you like Liquigas better, but that's not an argument.

 

[auscyclefan94]

I like Frank but I wouldn't say that he has really developed just because he had a great 10 days in June this year.

Watch him develop in 2012. First on the agenda will be a win on Wilunga Hill!

 

[will10]

Watch him develop in 2012. First on the agenda will be a win on Wilunga Hill!

If Mattias Frank wins on Wilunga Hill, I will give you complete control over my avatar for the entirety of 2012. If he doesn't, you have to post at least 100 times during the Tour without using the words "Cadel" or "Evans".

 

[auscyclefan94]

If Mattias Frank wins on Wilunga Hill, I will give you complete control over my avatar for the entirety of 2012. If he doesn't, you have to post at least 100 times during the Tour without using the words "Cadel" or "Evans".

Hey, as much as I want him to win on Wilunga I am not sure how good his form will be.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

How is a podium in Tirreno, Pais Vasco, Suisse, Paris-Roubaix, and stage wins at the Tour and Giro, less than that? If we take a longer timespan, obviously Liquigas won hands down last year (even though Rabo won Milan-San Remo and podiumed at the Tour) but the year before that, Rabo won two stages + the overall in the Giro no less, and a Tour stage, versus Romandie and two Giro stages for Liquigas.

I can understand you like Liquigas better, but that's not an argument.

I guess I rate Nibali's deserved podium spot at the Giro higher than most.

Tirreno was a high profile podium, but it had a decisive TTT in it. Both Basso and Nibali deserved a podium spot more than Gesink. Don't even get me started on the PR podium, or the Tour stage Luis Leon won. The other wins and podiums you mention were deserved, though.

Rabobank was much better when they had Menchov and Freire. When they're on, they're on. 2009 was obviously better for Rabobank, though Pellizotti could have just as easily won the Giro. Menchov kind of got lucky with the atypical Giro route.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

Biggest team in the world? If you include women's cycling, and sports other than road cycling, sure. Irrelevant, though.

stupid. You say this fact is irrelevant, when you are the one who said for such a big budget rabo suck. Hate to break this to you but the big budget is not solely for the PT team, thus his point is very relevant.

any way they clearly do have a lot of depth, but like el pickle said doesn't look like they will be using it very well in 2012. No one can defend the brains behind the rabo team and tactics (unless you look at it from a sponsor perspective, tour=most important race etc)

But anyway I doubt kruijswijk would have a free role at the tour. They'll probably waste it on gesink again, and then fail again with such a promising line up.

And lol, well garate, LLS (he knows he isn't a leader at the tour) and barredo are mountain domestiques, holland aren't really buried in such agree lls is overrated big time.

Ten Dam was an awesome domestique for Menchov in 2009.

yes, his giro ride is really something.

So has Kruiswijck at the Vuelta. Two of the three Dutch GC hopefuls will be relegated to domestiques regardless if one of them can top 10.

This.

Rabobank was much better when they had Menchov and Freire. When they're on, they're on. 2009 was obviously better for Rabobank, though Pellizotti could have just as easily won the Giro. Menchov kind of got lucky with the atypical Giro route.

the thing is, you gotta be ignorant or total anti-rabo/dutch (see; el pickle) to not recognize the team is constantly heading in the right direction. The majority of their best riders are all young, each year they are bring talented youngster in and the results are getting better each year, especially in a dutch perspective which is the main concern of the team. But no means is this rabo project not looking promising or successful.

@ el pickle, a list of how many riders actually can "realistically" win a monument Sure zaugg, goss, nuyems, jvs were all on ours lists 12 months ago

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

If Mattias Frank wins on Wilunga Hill, I will give you complete control over my avatar for the entirety of 2012. If he doesn't, you have to post at least 100 times during the Tour without using the words "Cadel" or "Evans".

he will then proceed by using much more disturbing describing words :|