Riis' Health

[Trek1000]

I am seriously impressed--moved, maybe even awed. I think that in the long and grueling search for the all-time stupidest cyclingnewsforums thread, this one might actually be the winner. And when you think of all the trolls who've come here, the endless, redundant, repetitive debates about the same issue over and over until your eyeballs bleed, for someone to have come up with an idea for a thread so stupid, so obviously misguided in all its assumptions, so mindshatteringly *** that you can actually feel your iq melting as you read the initial comments... it is a beautiful thing. Well done.

Thanks very much

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I agree with the OP.

PEDs do no longfull harm - especially if you die early.

Can someone who smokes bump this thread in 50 years time?

 

[flicker]

I would have thought Jalabert would have dropped dead by now.

But hey, look at Laurent Fignon. He was relatively healthy for a very long time and died at age 50.

And Jacques Anquetil for all intent and purposes also died very young at age 53.

And they both died from terrible diseases that inflicted excruciating pain on them, nothing I would wish on anyone.

From what I have heard Anquentil did not die from anything to do with speed alcohol or cigarettes. I do not know about Mr. Fignon. I have heard of links between cocaine abuse and cancer.
Good ones to watch would be Thevenet, Merckx or any of their contempories. Maybe Moser?

 

[The Hitch]

Oh yeah it is not that bad?
What a stupid argument in support of doping....
Gee it is not that bad...
I am sure Tom Simpson would not agree if he were still alive.

http://www.theathlete.org/doping-in-sport.htm

Doping and detriment to health

"Doping not only contravenes the spirit of fair competition, it can be seriously detrimental to health. Elite athletes who turn to doping take the greatest risks which seem to pale in contrast to their burning desire for gold. Anabolic steroids affect cardiovascular and mental health and are associated with an increased risk of neoplasms.5,6 Dietary supplements containing ephedra alkaloids have been linked to serious health risks including hypertension, tachycardia, stroke, seizures and death.7 This finding has lead to the recall of ephedra containing supplements in the USA and Canada. Deaths under the influence of drugs and combinations thereof are not uncommon in sport. The peptide hormones or so-called "sports-designer drugs" are thought to be the most dangerous, although the combination of amphetamines, anabolic steroids or antihypertensives combined with intense exertion in athletes are just as hazardous. America's dream girl Florence Griffith Joyner, "Flo-Jo", and the Cuban runner Chelimo both died from cardiovascular events at 38 years of age. Natural causes or doping? We will never know. President Bill Clinton said of Flo-Jo " we were dazzled by her speed, humbled by her talent and captivated by her style". "

Good post and I totaly agree with everything you say but i dont think the op should be immediately attacked and put down as a supporter of doping. Its an interesting argument he presents and well worth discussing.

 

[The Hitch]

Also if this hasnt been posted already, i read somewhere that fignon was the most recent of a number of tour winners to die before the age of 60. Who else. Antequil, Pantani, Luis Ocana and of those, only Pantani is from the epo era.
Obviously not all of those are because of doping but it seems the lifespan of a tdf winner isnt as long as other proffesions.

 

[Anonymous]

lets see what happens to riis when he quits cycling, has nothing to do, sinks into depression, loses his money, family and livelehood and ends up dead in a south american hotel.

Sure we will all say he's fine then.

Cycling has a long history of riders who cope fine while they are riding, its when the journey ends they struggle.

 

[ChrisE]

Thanks very much

To determine statistical odds you need to take a large sample over a long period of time. Picking and choosing to prove a point means nothing.

I live around a bunch of rednecks. I cannot tell you how many times when it was cold this past winter that I heard "some global warming" on a cold day, followed by a bunch of chuckles and other low IQ amens. You apparently are of the same ilk. You shouldn't be proud of that.

 

[Wallace]

To determine statistical odds you need to take a large sample over a long period of time. Picking and choosing to prove a point means nothing.

I live around a bunch of rednecks. I cannot tell you how many times when it was cold this past winter that I heard "some global warming" on a cold day, followed by a bunch of chuckles and other low IQ amens. You apparently are of the same ilk. You shouldn't be proud of that.

I totally disagree. I think Trek1000 is an artist. Watching him at work is like watching Philippe Pettit dance between the two towers--he makes it look so easy--but his artistry consists of hiding his artistry. It's like watching Fred Astaire pretending to be dancing drunk, or W.C. Fields playing pool with a warped cue.

 

[ChrisE]

I totally disagree. I think Trek1000 is an artist. Watching him at work is like watching Philippe Pettit dance between the two towers--he makes it look so easy--but his artistry consists of hiding his artistry. It's like watching Fred Astaire pretending to be dancing drunk, or W.C. Fields playing pool with a warped cue.

BTW I read your earlier post that basically said what I posted though eloquently insulting without any reference to statistics. Should have replied to you and said I agreed but I may get banned for agreeing with a post like that.

Take care.

 

[Trek1000]

To determine statistical odds you need to take a large sample over a long period of time. Picking and choosing to prove a point means nothing.

I live around a bunch of rednecks. I cannot tell you how many times when it was cold this past winter that I heard "some global warming" on a cold day, followed by a bunch of chuckles and other low IQ amens. You apparently are of the same ilk. You shouldn't be proud of that.

Often the people with the highest IQ dont need to tell everyone about it i.e but you my friend seem the need to tell everyone how clever you are

I can assure you I created this thread to see what people's reactions would be. All I did was ask questions. You are the one who came up with the answers.

The bait has been taken and you are the one left looking like the redneck.

Good night

 

[The Hitch]

I totally disagree. I think Trek1000 is an artist. Watching him at work is like watching Philippe Pettit dance between the two towers--he makes it look so easy--but his artistry consists of hiding his artistry. It's like watching Fred Astaire pretending to be dancing drunk, or W.C. Fields playing pool with a warped cue.

I must concede, or admit, or aknowledge, that your posts can be quite entertaining to read at times, lucid and well written. Especially that one about how Contador on Armstrong drugs would be like watching a bycicle ductaped to a spaceship fly up the alps.

 

[ChrisE]

Often the people with the highest IQ dont need to tell everyone about it i.e but you my friend seem the need to tell everyone how clever you are

I can assure you I created this thread to see what people's reactions would be. All I did was ask questions. You are the one who came up with the answers.

The bait has been taken and you are the one left looking like the redneck.

Good night

Huh? You ask something statistically stupid and I look like the redneck by pointing that out? How old are you? 12?

I call BS on why you created this thread. In hindsight it's easy for any thread starting a$$hat such as yourself to say "I only did this to see the reaction" after they create a thread that is as stupid as this. Busted.

 

[DAOTEC]

They are still in good health.

 

[python]

<snip>

The bait has been taken and you are the one left looking like the redneck.

Good night

i may agree w/you here. Chrise's references to your iq were perhaps self serving if not downright arrogant.

to your point...riis being one of the more intelligent dopers out there is likely to beat the odds as far as his life span. but only time can tell.

 

[DAOTEC]

*** edted by mod ***

off-topic

 

[caveatum]

Health effects depend on the type of drug used. EPO is natural hormone that stimulates red blood cell production. Its synthesis by the body can be stimulated by living at high altitude or using a hypobaric chamber. It is prescribed for people that have low red-blood cell levels for various reasons.

 

[python]

<snip> a$$hat such as yourself <snip>

reported. name calling and a direct attack on a posters intelligence.

ps. mods, i realize this may be off topic. feel free to keep this post moderated.

 

[ChrisE]

*snip*Chrise's references to your iq were perhaps self serving if not downright arrogant. *snip*

Insulting a forum member instead of debating the subject. My arrogancy is not the title of this thread.

Reported. Direct attack on a poster's character.

ps. mods, i realize this may be off topic. feel free to keep this post moderated.

 

[Anonymous]

Often the people with the highest IQ dont need to tell everyone about it i.e but you my friend seem the need to tell everyone how clever you are

I can assure you I created this thread to see what people's reactions would be. All I did was ask questions. You are the one who came up with the answers.

The bait has been taken and you are the one left looking like the redneck.

Good night

IQ tests are NOT a reflection of intelligence. Purely a reflection of how good you are at doing IQ tests.

I have an IQ in the 140's whilst officially having mental health issues. My wife has a high iq yet cooked something in the oven on 45c because it said 45 minutes on the box, and then broke the washing machine.

 

[python]

. My arrogancy is not the title of this thread.

it would be more productive if you discuss the thread originator's argument about doper's health (riis is just an example) rather than insulting the thread originator's intelligence. arguments based on name calling are not productive.

do you have anything other than name calling the thread originator ?

 

[Anonymous]

They are still in good health.

erm, one got cancer from doping and the other has locked himself away and is allegedly suffering from depression.

What part of good health am i missing?

 

[simo1733]

Flo Jo

Oh yeah it is not that bad?
What a stupid argument in support of doping....
Gee it is not that bad...
I am sure Tom Simpson would not agree if he were still alive.

http://www.theathlete.org/doping-in-sport.htm

Doping and detriment to health

"Doping not only contravenes the spirit of fair competition, it can be seriously detrimental to health. Elite athletes who turn to doping take the greatest risks which seem to pale in contrast to their burning desire for gold. Anabolic steroids affect cardiovascular and mental health and are associated with an increased risk of neoplasms.5,6 Dietary supplements containing ephedra alkaloids have been linked to serious health risks including hypertension, tachycardia, stroke, seizures and death.7 This finding has lead to the recall of ephedra containing supplements in the USA and Canada. Deaths under the influence of drugs and combinations thereof are not uncommon in sport. The peptide hormones or so-called "sports-designer drugs" are thought to be the most dangerous, although the combination of amphetamines, anabolic steroids or antihypertensives combined with intense exertion in athletes are just as hazardous. America's dream girl Florence Griffith Joyner, "Flo-Jo", and the Cuban runner Chelimo both died from cardiovascular events at 38 years of age. Natural causes or doping? We will never know. President Bill Clinton said of Flo-Jo " we were dazzled by her speed, humbled by her talent and captivated by her style". "

What? Flo Jo was on drugs!

 

[VeloFidelis]

lets see what happens to riis when he quits cycling, has nothing to do, sinks into depression, loses his money, family and livelehood and ends up dead in a south american hotel.

Sure we will all say he's fine then.

Cycling has a long history of riders who cope fine while they are riding, its when the journey ends they struggle.

Not to insinuate that you don't know what you are talking about, but if it wouldn't be too much trouble; can you possibly name one? And please, leave Pantani and VDB out of this discussion as their psychological problems are well documented prior to, and not the result of PED use.

As to the other myth that seems to be taking route here; it would seem that former TDF winners live longer and healthier lives than the average citizen, and certainly much longer than some other professional athletes.

In 2003 TDF 100th Anniversary route unveiling had in attendance all the living Tour winners going back to Roger Walkowiak who won in 1956. The only winners not in attendance were:

Jacques Anquetil (Cancer)
Gastone Nencini (Cancer)
Louis Ocana (Suicide)

This does not sound like the legacy of ill health and problems following a cycling career that is being made by many here. Every former Tour winner in attendance looked fit and healthy enough to ride most of us off their wheel. It seems to me that all of these athletes are none the worse for whatever "enhancements" were used in their day and which they most certainly availed themselves of.

Contrast that to a sport like American Football where the average former player has a life-span of 56 (52 for Linemen) and where substance abuse, alcoholism, and various directly related health problems are epidemic in post career life.

 

[python]

Deaths under the influence of drugs and combinations thereof are not uncommon in sport. "

i welcome this thread.

perhaps riis is not the best (or best available) subject of the discussion, but doping influence on the athlete's health is a paramount subject.

one of wada's guiding principles for banned substances list is best available guess at the health impact of a banned substance.

i believe the medical science at it's present state does not have all the answers.

we can say with the reasonable certainty that epo can increase the incidence of heart problems. we cam also say that hormonal doping has been link to cancer. but we can not pinpoint a banned substance's all effects and influences on health. too many variables - doze, individual tolerance, timing, age, life style etc.

it's a worthy subject.

 

[simo1733]

American football

Not to insinuate that you don't know what you are talking about, but if it wouldn't be too much trouble; can you possibly name one? And please, leave Pantani and VDB out of this discussion as their psychological problems are well documented prior to, and not the result of PED use.

As to the other myth that seems to be taking route here; it would seem that former TDF winners live longer and healthier lives than the average citizen, and certainly much longer than some other professional athletes.

In 2003 TDF 100th Anniversary route unveiling had in attendance all the living Tour winners going back to Roger Walkowiak who won in 1956. The only winners not in attendance were:

Jacques Anquetil (Cancer)
Gastone Nencini (Cancer)
Louis Ocana (Suicide)

This does not sound like the legacy of ill health and problems following a cycling career that is being made by many here. Every former Tour winner in attendance looked fit and healthy enough to ride most of us off their wheel. It seems to me that all of these athletes are none the worse for whatever "enhancements" were used in their day and which they most certainly availed themselves of.

Contrast that to a sport like American Football where the average former player has a life-span of 56 (52 for Linemen) and where substance abuse, alcoholism, and various directly related health problems are epidemic in post career life.

Thats a shocking statistic about American Football.So much for their college education