Riis' Health

[The Hitch]

I would also like to ask if pro cycling - doping can also cause health problems. Putting that much pressure on the body. Losing so much body fat for climbs. Going in the red for hours, mountain stage after mountain stage. Even without epo this can cause long term health problems no?

 

[tockit]

Bjarne Riis was a major doper for years. Absued his body to extreme lenghts.

However his health seem excellent. Head of a team is a very busy and stressful job yet his health seems perfect.

Therefore can we say such extreme doping is actually not bad for your health??

Virenque is another who seems in great condition.

We probably won't know the real answer to this question until the test results are back from Ozzy Osbourne's Gene Mapping Study!

http://popwatch.ew.com/2010/06/16/ozzy-genes-studied/

 

[Wallace]

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off-topic

 

[Tim_sleepless]

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off-topic

 

[Hugh Januss]

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off-topic

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

erm, one got cancer from doping and the other has locked himself away and is allegedly suffering from depression.

What part of good health am i missing?

The "other one" got the depression from a media witch hunt. I don´t see any connection of his illness to doping.

As long as we don´t have any long term study of life expectancy in pro cycling, all discussion are baseless.

I only know studies of former NFL players (the last was around 2000, so "new-age doping" is not included, but still heavy doses of painkillers, numbing shots and steroids). The actually live longer than the average american.

BTW, i am against doping. But because of a moral standpoint (like Bassons).

 

[hiero2]

The "other one" got the depression from a media witch hunt. I don´t see any connection of his illness to doping.

As long as we don´t have any long term study of life expectancy in pro cycling, all discussion are baseless.

I only know studies of former NFL players (the last was around 2000, so "new-age doping" is not included, but still heavy doses of painkillers, numbing shots and steroids). The actually live longer than the average american.

BTW, i am against doping. But because of a moral standpoint (like Bassons).

Surely you meant to say "Out of the ones who live, they live longer than average"? And surely you must have been tongue-in-cheek, as I recall something of that study as well.

If I recall correctly, it also showed that NFL players were more likely than would be expected from population averages to suffer brain damage (dementia). And how about chronic pain and crippling injuries? Joint replacements?

 

[hiero2]

What a strange original posting. It didn't really feel like a troll - but the subsequent entries by the op did. And then he basically confirmed it.

Well, doping may not be deleterious to an individual's health (hey, sometimes we can even get away with suicidal behavior!), but this thread has been deleterious to at least one (now former) member's status.

I liked Wallace's comment, I thought that was extremely well written. Obviously, I'm referring to his first post in this thread, where he compared the OP to an artist.

I actually liked ChrisE's first comment, too, but I didn't really focus on the IQ thing - the scenario (for me) really painted an illogical "common man" response. Obviously other people thought he was really out of line with that. I think the response to it went a little overboard. Judging from all the modded comments, the later conversation went a lot overboard.

Anyway, the topic of doping is a bit like global warming - or organic farming - or fast food health effects. Emotionally driven arguments can still reign.

There are a real problems with pulling two examples out, and saying that we can draw a conclusion based on their example. As has been pointed out, it is statistically invalid. Statistics are about groups - individual results will always vary.

Anquetil did a lot of speed to keep going - and other stuff, but I forget what he said. He admitted it openly. Constant use of speed kills, but slowly, as your body breaks down. Most drugs don't kill outright (opiates are an exception) - but rather through long term action on the body permitting something else to come up and kill - an opportunistic infection, cancer, etc. Does anybody still doubt that cigarettes are bad for you? They are a drug - and they don't kill you directly. They just make it more likely you will die at an earlier age than you would have otherwise. And more painfully.

Is I said - what a strange thread, that we should even be discussing this is somewhat amazing to me. But in this much, ChrisE got it right - in every population, there are groups of people who will continue to believe what they did yesterday, and they will look for ways to confirm that. Anything that doesn't is thrown out.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Surely you meant to say "Out of the ones who live, they live longer than average"? And surely you must have been tongue-in-cheek, as I recall something of that study as well.

If I recall correctly, it also showed that NFL players were more likely than would be expected from population averages to suffer brain damage (dementia). And how about chronic pain and crippling injuries? Joint replacements?

I just talked about Life expectancy, since this was the topic (somehow?!). Not only the ones who live, but (close to) all Ex-Players were included in those studies. Such studies were made once every decade.

Off topic: Of course the nature of the football game is grueling. So 2/3 of Ex-Players suffer from permanent pain and depression. But they (have to) live long with it.

I guess ex cycling pros also live longer than the average person. Simply because they can´t afford to smoke, drink too much, eat unhealthy etc.! Pipo tend to remember only the big stories. Examples: Fignons dead, Alzados dead, Magic Johnsons Aids, Lawrence Taylors cocaine abuse and rape. But for all the bad and/or sad stories their are countless anonymous quiet cyclists who live a long life. They just didn´t make it to the sensational news. Because no one is interested in good/boring news (at least that´s what many "journalists" think).

 

[Animal]

To the doping apologists who are questioning why any non-expert should be so audacious as to... haver an... opinion on the matter...

It's fecking CHEATING!

 

[Darryl Webster]

I recall some research in the 80`s that looked into the effects of GT riding on life expetancy and found that the average was reduced. Not by a vast amount as I recall but still significant.
Perhaps others might recall this research..I believe it was conducted by French academics and correlated average age at death of a large number of TDF riders from years gone by.

 

[Animal]

Not necessarily caused by the fact of being a GT rider though!

correlation vs causation!

Maybe some kind of underlying cause like the GT peloton of that time contained more than an average number of amphetamine users.

 

[Darryl Webster]

Not necessarily caused by the fact of being a GT rider though!

correlation vs causation!

Totaly agree...statisticly a very difficult thing to establish a direct link but non the less an interesting bit of research.

 

[Vonn Brinkman]

83% of people who play the original Russian roulette come out alive. Pretty good odds, huh?

How does that work?

 

[Jan the Man]

1/6 chance of getting a bullet. 5/6 chance of not getting a bullet.

 

[simo1733]

heartrate

Totaly agree...statisticly a very difficult thing to establish a direct link but non the less an interesting bit of research.

Animals that have higher heart rates generally have shorter lifespans.There is a theory that endurance atheletes,because they spend so much of their life with elevated heart rate, may see similar effect

 

[Bag_O_Wallet]

Bjarne Riis was a major doper for years. Absued his body to extreme lenghts.

However his health seem excellent. Head of a team is a very busy and stressful job yet his health seems perfect.

Therefore can we say such extreme doping is actually not bad for your health??

Virenque is another who seems in great condition.

IIRC, Riis mentions some undisclosed health issues in Overcoming. In no way does that suggest drugs were to blame, but, if verified, it challenges your stance that Riis is/was in excellent health.

I don't have a copy of the movie anymore... so, unfortunately, I can't verify.

 

[Benotti69]

the human body is still a mystery and what is put into has effects on some and none on others.

How many people smoked for 60years and died peacefully in their sleep at 80+...?

I don't think Fignon was going to ever admit that his doping caused his cancer (if true), it would end his time in cycling and he was never going to do that as he expected to survive his illness.

Those who have had illnesses derived of PED use will never get published unless they are the stars, we never hear of it. Also there is the chance that not all use PEDS for a long time and the body recovers, but until someone does a study with subjects such as athletes before PED use, during PED use and after PED use we will never have any hard facts...

so ultimately why take the risk?

for me PED use in sport is cheating.

 

[SpeedWay]

I am seriously impressed--moved, maybe even awed. I think that in the long and grueling search for the all-time stupidest cyclingnewsforums thread, this one might actually be the winner. And when you think of all the trolls who've come here, the endless, redundant, repetitive debates about the same issue over and over until your eyeballs bleed, for someone to have come up with an idea for a thread so stupid, so obviously misguided in all its assumptions, so mindshatteringly *** that you can actually feel your iq melting as you read the initial comments... it is a beautiful thing. Well done.

ditto. Don't you just love it! Ever time you think you have a candidate for the stupidest thread ever they shock and awe you with another one!

 

[galaxy1]

could the shape of Riis's forehead be influenced by PEDs?

 

[forty four]

Animals that have higher heart rates generally have shorter lifespans.There is a theory that endurance atheletes,because they spend so much of their life with elevated heart rate, may see similar effect

yes true but endurance athletes heart rates are only elevated when riding otherwise there heart rates are much lower than that of average out of shape fat american. as an example at rest im in the 50's or 40's hr. i have been around sedentary types whos resting was close to 100 no health problems either just sadly out of shape. i would think total heart beats in a year might actually be less for endurance athletes than for people beating away at 80 to 120 all day.

 

[forty four]

besides its not like sloths live forever and they barely move at all lol. i do feel that racing and riding at absolute max is bad for you and takes time off total life span this im sure of.

 

[ulrikmm]

could the shape of Riis's forehead be influenced by PEDs?

Perhaps BEDs?











Brain Enhancing Drugs - giggles..

 

[forty four]

Riis seems in great health. Not in favour of doping but himself and Virenque are two examples of former dopers in good health.

With all science there is an alternative argument. We know both used steroids and HGH yet I dont see any weird effects from it.

We know both used an tonne of EPO and I dont see them having heart problems

why would you think ped use is a guarantee for health issues later on? sometimes yes sometimes no same for everything in life smoking alcohol drugs weight issues etc.. you might do all these and live a long healthy life or you might live like a saint and get sick and die its all a matter of odds but there are no certainties with health very simple. dumb thread common sense not so common these days.

 

[Le breton]

Animals that have higher heart rates generally have shorter lifespans.There is a theory that endurance atheletes,because they spend so much of their life with elevated heart rate, may see similar effect

Obviously you have a problem with maths.

If I had not done sport my resting heart rate would probably have been around 60bpm like my dad's.
Because I trained consistently it went down near 40bpm.

On a year-round average I spend 1hr a day at say 140bpm.

Which increases my daily average to 44 bpm.

Therefore, because I do sport, i save about 36% on heartbeats. Not the other way around.

Of course many of us have parents whose resting heart rates were more like 70-80 bpm and they would have a much higher relative benefit from doing sport.