Rock & Roll will never die, but rim brakes are on the outs.

[Fenceline]

Agreed, unfortunately as with all rim brakes you will find a significant change in their performance as soon as it rains. This is the answer to the question that a number of people are asking.

 

[Benotti69]

Disc brakes are not going to be a solution in wet weather if road surfaces offer no grip. Getting instant stopping power is going to mean most riders end up on the black stuff instantly and that sounds like more riders hurt.

Not to many train in wet conditions so most dont know how to handle braking in the wet. We saw that perfectly illustrated at this years Giro (Pescara stage) where at one corner 5 of 6 riders in a break went down because they all grabbed their front break and boom down they went. A disc system would not have made any difference.

 

[Master50]

Disc brakes are not going to be a solution in wet weather if road surfaces offer no grip. Getting instant stopping power is going to mean most riders end up on the black stuff instantly and that sounds like more riders hurt.

Not to many train in wet conditions so most dont know how to handle braking in the wet. We saw that perfectly illustrated at this years Giro (Pescara stage) where at one corner 5 of 6 riders in a break went down because they all grabbed their front break and boom down they went. A disc system would not have made any difference.

Obviously there are road conditions where any BRAKING action will break traction and the rider will crash. Rim brakes have very good ultimate stopping power on aluminum rims but carbon rims have a problem with modulation in that they are grabby. Disks offer better modulation and predictability but if the difference between wheel lock up and slowing is only a few grams of force then yes most riders will lock the wheels up. The point is that disks can offer a predictable progression to lock up that is too variable on rim brakes.
Most riders do need more wet braking practice but hey who wants to crash learning how to do that?
One thing that may not be currently feasible is anti lock braking. While I am not predicting we will see Anti Lock braking it is technologically possible on a hydraulic disk brake system.

 

[deboat]

ABS will not come for a long long time because of the weight. The new ABS system on the KTM Adventure weight is about 2.5 kg. ABS system only, not including brakes. It also works extremely well!! This is new technology. Disc brakes on a bicycle is nothing new.

And no, more power is not needed but as tyre tech improves so should braking tech. Hydro disc brakes give the rider better feel and modulation if designed correct. If you don't understand this then maybe you don't ride in the mountains where braking is very important. Like if you ride near Berlin then almost no brakes are needed but near the Alps then total different story.

 

[The GCW]

For the love of climbing, don't add a gram.

I ride in the mountains which means I climb in the mountains. Climbs that extend a minimum of 4 to 8 miles on just about all the mountain passes, once You climb to get to the formal start of the pass. Sometimes the climbing can be 20 to 28 miles, like 14,xxx' Mount Evans.

That calls for a light bike. We spend the majority of Our life climbing. Don't add a gram.

I've ridden a few insane climbs where the descent was also very steep and only then have I felt like My (2006 model) Dura-Ace brakes could have been a little stronger. I just can not race down 15% grades with hairpins, so I simply keep it under control.

My bike weighs 15.56 lbs. I will pay to make it lighter. I will not pay to make it heavier. My next bike should be illegal. Under 15 lbs.

I have hydraulic disc brakes on My MTN bike and they are more of a pain in the saddle on every facet in comparison. There are consistent reasons which come up on a MTN bike that makes them better, that doesn't exist on the road bike.

 

[dsut4392]

I have hydraulic disc brakes on My MTN bike and they are more of a pain in the saddle on every facet in comparison.

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but what's wrong with the hydros on your MTB? I can't think of a single thing about any of mine that is a "pain in the saddle". OK, every now and then a niggling "ching ching ching ching..." when I've bent a disc, or a horrendous howl with new pads in the rain, but both of these have their rim brake equivalents.

*Shimano XT 2011- previous owner threw in the towel after failing to bleed them properly when swapping the levers left-right, but I followed the manual and they have needed no maintenance since installation on my commuter over a year ago.
*Avid juicy 3 - Owned since Aug 06 on my duallie, only maintenance in that time one bleed in 2009 following an operator error (popped a piston out by squeezing the lever while changing a pad trailside). These brakes get a hammering in all conditions (e.g. steep 1000m descent in pouring rain and mud on Saturday), and still work flawlessly.
*Hayes mag - on my hardtail since April 2003, no maintenance except pad changes in all that time. Lever feel is like wood, but they still work well.

 

[The GCW]

Hydro disc issue

It's extra work to keep the disc centered in the caliper brake shoes. They get bled and need to get bled again after using them for less than a couple months. When storing the bike, hanging by the rear wheel or upside down, it effects the brakes.

I've tried to center the disc at least a few times and there is still a slight rub. Been riding the road bike almost exclusively this summer or I'd be determined to fix that problem. Haven't learned to bleed the brakes yet... Gotta do that.

Magura Marta SL

 

[dsut4392]

ot -

It's extra work to keep the disc centered in the caliper brake shoes. They get bled and need to get bled again after using them for less than a couple months. When storing the bike, hanging by the rear wheel or upside down, it effects the brakes.

I've tried to center the disc at least a few times and there is still a slight rub. Been riding the road bike almost exclusively this summer or I'd be determined to fix that problem. Haven't learned to bleed the brakes yet... Gotta do that.

Magura Marta SL

Don't have any experience with Maguras sorry. If the brakes are bled properly the first time, you shouldn't get air entering from the master cylinder even if the bike is hung upside down. If you're getting constant problems, maybe you have a dud piston seal or master cylinder seal. Alternatively, hang it from the front wheel instead?

A slight pad rub on the disc is usually of no consequence, but should be fixable nonetheless. Unless one of your pistons is stuck and they're not pushing out evenly (or retracting evenly) as the pads wear, disc centering should be pretty much set and forget. Remove the wheel and push both pistons all the way in, then pull the lever to push them out again. If one piston moves significantly more than the other, the one that didn't move is the culprit. Just pushing them in and out a few times may be enough. If not, get this one to push out as far as you can (without popping it all the way out) and give it a good clean with some alcohol and a cotton bud/toothpick etc and repeat until it frees up. Cleaning with alcohol after a bleed (as recommended by most manufacturers) probably lessens the chance of crud sticking to the piston as well. FWIW, I clean my bike with a high pressure sprayer after muddy rides, including the brakes (but being real careful not to get direct spray in BB/freehub/hub bearings or down fork seals).

 

[Master50]

The last 2 world cup CX races are won on a bike with Disk Brakes. So that hurdle is past now.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

Not that it couldn't be done, but doing this with rim brakes on a road bike would be pretty hard.

Link

 

[LugHugger]

So, now we have both Shimano and TRP recalling 'road' disks.....How on earth have we manage with with calipers on tarmac for the last 50 years? I've never run out of power on a road descent on aluminium rims, just learned how and when to brake into corners of different angles. Does nobody actually want to learn anything anymore???? TV - drug of the nation....

 

[oldcrank]

Not that it couldn't be done, but doing this with rim brakes on a road bike would be pretty hard.

Link

Didn't he do pretty much the same thing on a Pinarello
with rim brakes last year, my friend?
I have no opinion on the rim vs. disc controversy as I
am mostly a track rider but just pointing out that he
does similar looking (to me at least) stunts with rim
brakes as he does with the discs.

 

[US Patent Exploding Cyclist]

That's why I said "not that it couldn't be done".

I am assuming the Front flip is the only thing that is made significantly easier with disc brakes, I wouldn't know as I can't say I have ever tried.

 

[oldcrank]

Yes, my friend, your caveat was noted.
I was only aware of the previous video on the Pinarello
because a club-mate set me the link due to the fact
that I ride a Pinarello track bike.
I don't intend to try any of the stunts either.

 

[GreasyMonkey]

So, now we have both Shimano and TRP recalling 'road' disks.....How on earth have we manage with with calipers on tarmac for the last 50 years? I've never run out of power on a road descent on aluminium rims, just learned how and when to brake into corners of different angles. Does nobody actually want to learn anything anymore???? TV - drug of the nation....

Now add SRAM to the list..... http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sram-recalls-road-hydraulic-disc-brakes

I will stick to cable-actuated calipers, thanks. I too have never run out of braking power using Campag Chorus differential calipers, on Alu or carbon wheels, in rain, snow, dry.

 

[biker jk]

So, now we have both Shimano and TRP recalling 'road' disks.....How on earth have we manage with with calipers on tarmac for the last 50 years? I've never run out of power on a road descent on aluminium rims, just learned how and when to brake into corners of different angles. Does nobody actually want to learn anything anymore???? TV - drug of the nation....

I totally agree. It's a "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. Really just the industry driving an upgrade cycle to increase profits.

 

[Master50]

I came to road racing at the time of delta brakes and the idea was they are for regulating your speed. When DA brakes were introduced they completely changed their performance. Now we had brakes that actually could stop a front wheel from turning with 1 or 2 fingers. Modulation had taken a huge step forward as well as ultimate stopping power. I think that has always been enough stopping power but the modulation is really only great on dry aluminum rims. My early MTB had cantilever brakes and frankly MTB Brakes are finally meeting all the conditions My latest XT brakes are fabulous in all conditions.
Only disk could deliver that all conditions braking. There is lots of room for road bikes to have this consistency but road brakes have enough ultimate power.

 

[avanti]

Cyclocross riders are discovering problems with disc brakes at low temperatures:
http://www.cxmagazine.com/sram-recall-hydraulic-brakes-replacement-policy-bb7

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I would think disk brakes will be very popular with the MAMILs on their once a year trip to the Alps / Etape / Marmotte etc.

No risk of blowing off the tyres even if you go down a 20k descent "on the brakes", which is all too common for inexperienced riders. It sounded like a war zone on my descent of the Glandon in last year's Marmotte with the expoding tyres!

I did the Marmotte in 2011 on my Boardman hybrid with disk brakes and they were f---ing superb even if the bike was a tad heavy. I've gone "traditional" since, but often find myself wishing I had the disk brakes, particular when it's wet or there are a lot of other riders descending and I have to choose between slowing down or going faster than I want to when encountering a slower rider.

 

[richwagmn]

After finally owning a mountain bike with disc brakes (new to mountain biking) I can't see disc brakes ever working for road racing.

Talk about a slow tire change. And once you get the tire in, better hope your rear caliper is aligned properly with the new wheel.

 

[Bustedknuckle]

After finally owning a mountain bike with disc brakes (new to mountain biking) I can't see disc brakes ever working for road racing.

Talk about a slow tire change. And once you get the tire in, better hope your rear caliper is aligned properly with the new wheel.

Yep, gonna be comedy central in the pro peloton when a disc bike needs a neutral wheel.....disc? rotor size? and the noise will cause others in the peloton to stop and beat him senseless with their waterbottles.

 

[Giuseppe Magnetico]

I see the 'can't teach an old dog new tricks' concept is still in play. Hey, why don't we just go back to stopping with our feet like Fred Flintstone style, you Luddites will have your day, right?!

Happy Retirement Bustedknuckle! Your party was a blast!!

 

[LugHugger]

I see the 'can't teach an old dog new tricks' concept is still in play. Hey, why don't we just go back to stopping with our feet like Fred Flintstone style, you Luddites will have your day, right?!

Happy Retirement Bustedknuckle! Your party was a blast!!

Maybe. Have you considered that disks are 'the emperors new clothes'?

 

[Master50]

Exactly.

So I rode DA9000 rim brakes for the first time today on alu rims - well, f@ck me, the braking power of DA9000 on alu rims is PHENOMENAL! I had back off the level power a lot to avoid going over the bars.

Why anyone would want more braking power than DA9000 rims brakes is beyond me. Disc brakes on road-bike = solution in search of a problem.

They are fantastic rim brakes with aluminum rims and no one is looking for more. They are looking for long braking and modulation as well as freedom from the carbon finer rim braking issues, especially when it is wet.
Fact is some people are not very good with their brakes and disks can improve the idiot resistance of brake systems.

 

[StyrbjornSterki]

Cyclocross riders are discovering problems with disc brakes at low temperatures:
http://www.cxmagazine.com/sram-recall-hydraulic-brakes-replacement-policy-bb7

You make it sound as if all disc brakes ware found wanting at low temperatures, but the linked article says nothing of the sort. It is not a general repudiation of disc brakes, just of SRAM's execution of them.