Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is harder?

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Which race is harder?

  • Paris - Roubaix

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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E

Echoes

Oct 8, 2009
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

He's said that multiple times, during his career and afterwards. Lol I think Roger never drinks now, sort of straight-edge. :p

I'm a big fan and I cherish all his interviews and think he's often misunderstood. But why the hell did he accept an interview with a @#§´%£ (tabu word) such as Museeuw that he disliked during the latter's career. :eek:

Rather a cross interview with Van Hooydonck. :)
 
SeriousSam

SeriousSam

Aug 31, 2012
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What exactly does "hardest" even mean? In the absence of good definition, everyone's just going to say if they love PR and no otherwise.

So what does it mean. Area under the power curve?
 
Flamin

Flamin

Jan 4, 2011
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Echoes said:
I'm a big fan and I cherish all his interviews and think he's often misunderstood. But why the hell did he accept an interview with a @#§´%£ (tabu word) such as Museeuw that he disliked during the latter's career. :eek:
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Really? Well, if you see the interview, there's not much to misunderstand. He's an arrogant idiot, stuck in the 70's and who has no clue about modern cycling.
 
E

Echoes

Oct 8, 2009
3,391
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

The interview is hard to understand for me because they speak in dialects. But he speaks some truth yes. As much as I like Vanmarcke, his criticism against him is spot on. Vanmarcke should race De Panne and then he should remain careful when the race breaks out.

No De Vlaeminck is not stuck in the 70's, he respect the modern riders a lot. Here's a pic of him showing respect to a creditable Italian riders of the noughties: Luca Mazzanti.

Mazzanti_e_De_Vlaemink_copy.jpg


When De Vlaeminck turned pro, his DS was Briek Schotte, himself a champion from the forties. Schotte had very old-fashioned ideas about training at that time and the young De Vlaeminck brothers, plus Monseré would rather chose to work with Noël Foré who had just stopped and was more in touch with the new training methods. Monseré and De Vlaeminck would mock Schotte: “In mien tied aten we rozienenstuten” ("in my time we ate grape bread", I think it means). So yeah each era had their nostalgitards ...

De Vlaeminck as a rider was not an old-fashioned dinosaur. He was a very avant-guardist rider re: training methods and diet and in this respect had a massive influence over future generations (same for his brother Erik and Monseré). He worked with a very knowledgeable physician, the late Georges Debbaut, who planned winter training for him, that was a revolution at that time. He brought fitness into the sport, he trained on interval, etc. A very diversified training programme, ahead of his time. So I don't like such criticism...
 
Flamin

Flamin

Jan 4, 2011
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Echoes said:
The interview is hard to understand for me because they speak in dialects. But he speaks some truth yes. As much as I like Vanmarcke, his criticism against him is spot on. Vanmarcke should race De Panne and then he should remain careful when the race breaks out.

No De Vlaeminck is not stuck in the 70's, he respect the modern riders a lot. Here's a pic of him showing respect to a creditable Italian riders of the noughties: Luca Mazzanti.

Mazzanti_e_De_Vlaemink_copy.jpg


When De Vlaeminck turned pro, his DS was Briek Schotte, himself a champion from the forties. Schotte had very old-fashioned ideas about training at that time and the young De Vlaeminck brothers, plus Monseré would rather chose to work with Noël Foré who had just stopped and was more in touch with the new training methods. Monseré and De Vlaeminck would mock Schotte: “In mien tied aten we rozienenstuten” ("in my time we ate grape bread", I think it means). So yeah each era had their nostalgitards ...

De Vlaeminck as a rider was not an old-fashioned dinosaur. He was a very avant-guardist rider re: training methods and diet and in this respect had a massive influence over future generations (same for his brother Erik and Monseré). He worked with a very knowledgeable physician, the late Georges Debbaut, who planned winter training for him, that was a revolution at that time. He brought fitness into the sport, he trained on interval, etc. A very diversified training programme, ahead of his time. So I don't like such criticism...
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I know you have great knowledge about the history of cycling, I don't, so I'm sure all of this you're saying is true.

But he IS stuck in the 70's. He's constantly referring to how they raced, how they trained etc. How the top guys should make the race on Oude Kwaremont (I suppose he means the 2nd passage) and not the helpers. (Although not in this interview), how he downplays the comparison with Boonen by saying Boonen never won Liège, and a lot more of this nonsense. He somehow can't accept things change.

What I'll never forget is that when he was a guest co-commentator in Tirreno 2013 and he was tipping Sagan to win the stage to Prati di Tivo :eek: that was hilarious.
 
E

Echoes

Oct 8, 2009
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Flamin said:
But he IS stuck in the 70's. He's constantly referring to how they raced, how they trained etc.
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Again the training methods in the seventies are still pretty much topical for what cycling is today and he was one of those who revolutionised it. Some things change but there are many invariants as well. And when you are given your opinion about something, you talk about the things you know. So obviously he has to refer to how he raced when he's asked about it. I once heard Vannieuwkerke asking him about the new cyclocross tubes, he didn't say anything because in his days, there was only one type of tubes. It means that he's wise enough to realise he's not competent to talk about that issue.

Flamin said:
how he downplays the comparison with Boonen by saying Boonen never won Liège, and a lot more of this nonsense.
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Talking about misunderstanding, that's the interview I had in mind. This one, I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=455-D0dOglI

Never understood how blind Boonen fans could ever trash him for saying this and was flabbergasted. When I first heard it I considered it a tribute/eulogy to Boonen. I heard De Vlaeminck praising Boonen more than once and this since the very start of Boonen's career: a bigger talent than Museeuw, he always said. But for die-hard Boonen fans, I guess you surely can't burn an idol. Boonen never won Liège. I guess it's some sort of a fact. He never even raced it. And it would've been perfectly possible for him to race it and to even perform in it.
Flamin said:
He somehow can't accept things change.
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Again, he helped the sport evolved, he contributed for a great deal to what the sport is today, for that very reason, he certainly accept things change.

Flamin said:
What I'll never forget is that when he was a guest co-commentator in Tirreno 2013 and he was tipping Sagan to win the stage to Prati di Tivo :eek: that was hilarious.
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Haven't seen that stage, so can't speak. But oh well ... Anyone can make mistakes. After all Sagan won a mountain stage in Switzerland, didn't he?

The reason I like De Vlaeminck is his life style today. Looks very healthy for his age, still rides a lot, living in his farm in Kaprijke with a lot of animals that he treats properly (sheep, some 20 chickens, canaries, fish, crows,...), nature lover, tries to live as much bio as possible. I'm eating kiwis and apples, everyday because so he does. Yeah call me fanboy, perhaps. :p But surely, the kind of life I'd dream to have. :)
 
Roude Leiw

Roude Leiw

Aug 3, 2009
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Having ridden the RvV cyclo last weekend, I would definitively say PR is harder. The hills are steep, but very short, so a pro can "sprint" them up. The only time at the RvV where I felt VERY uncomfortable was on Mariaborrestraat, 2km of cobbles slightly downhill and in a pretty bad shape. So that was the PR part for me and it was definitively harder (in terms of stress, physical exhaustion was comparable) than the hellingen. So, yes PR is harder and if it is wet , it is a nightmare to ride. You would need fantastic bike handling skills on top of physical strength
 
Flamin

Flamin

Jan 4, 2011
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Echoes said:
Again the training methods in the seventies are still pretty much topical for what cycling is today and he was one of those who revolutionised it. Some things change but there are many invariants as well. And when you are given your opinion about something, you talk about the things you know. So obviously he has to refer to how he raced when he's asked about it. I once heard Vannieuwkerke asking him about the new cyclocross tubes, he didn't say anything because in his days, there was only one type of tubes. It means that he's wise enough to realise he's not competent to talk about that issue.
Click to expand...

No, that's the point. He does even when nobody asks him about it.

Talking about misunderstanding, that's the interview I had in mind. This one, I guess: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=455-D0dOglI

Never understood how blind Boonen fans could ever trash him for saying this and was flabbergasted. When I first heard it I considered it a tribute/eulogy to Boonen. I heard De Vlaeminck praising Boonen more than once and this since the very start of Boonen's career: a bigger talent than Museeuw, he always said. But for die-hard Boonen fans, I guess you surely can't burn an idol. Boonen never won Liège. I guess it's some sort of a fact. He never even raced it. And it would've been perfectly possible for him to race it and to even perform in it.
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What makes you think I was talking about that interview? It's not like it's the only time he talked about Boonen.. and no, it was never possible for Boonen to race for the win in Liège unless he made huge sacrifices regarding Ronde and Roubaix.

Oh and I'm not a Boonen fan :)

Haven't seen that stage, so can't speak. But oh well ... Anyone can make mistakes. After all Sagan won a mountain stage in Switzerland, didn't he?
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It shows he had no clue what he was talking about. Like tipping Froome to win Roubaix. That stage in Switzerland was completely different. Fair enough if you don't follow cycling anymore, but stop acting like you still know everything then.

The reason I like De Vlaeminck is his life style today. Looks very healthy for his age, still rides a lot, living in his farm in Kaprijke with a lot of animals that he treats properly (sheep, some 20 chickens, canaries, fish, crows,...), nature lover, tries to live as much bio as possible. I'm eating kiwis and apples, everyday because so he does. Yeah call me fanboy, perhaps. :p But surely, the kind of life I'd dream to have. :)
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You know him personally or something? :p
 
E

Echoes

Oct 8, 2009
3,391
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Flamin said:
What makes you think I was talking about that interview? It's not like it's the only time he talked about Boonen.. and no, it was never possible for Boonen to race for the win in Liège unless he made huge sacrifices regarding Ronde and Roubaix.
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Perhaps it's the only interview he's talking about Boonen racing Liège that I know of and a few years ago I stumbled on a blog of a Boonen fan who trashed De Vlaeminck and then embedded that video, which I found odd because he's praising Boonen in that interview, except for those who treat Boonen like a God.

And the problem with Boonen is not that he hasn't won Liège but that he hasn't even ever started it. Same for Cancellara, by the way.
Flamin said:
Fair enough if you don't follow cycling anymore, but stop acting like you still know everything then.
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Sure I'm just humbly and honestly saying that I couldn't speak about that race and you claim I'm acting as if I know everything. What would it be when I really do, then ... And no I'm not watching every single stage of every single stage race. Other things to do, sometimes ...

Flamin said:
You know him personally or something? :p
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I have two biographies plus other books and seen some shows on the één, mind you ... The book by Canvas "De Flandriens van het veld" made after the eponymous show is very interesting re evolution of training methods
 
Flamin

Flamin

Jan 4, 2011
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Echoes said:
Perhaps it's the only interview he's talking about Boonen racing Liège that I know of and a few years ago I stumbled on a blog of a Boonen fan who trashed De Vlaeminck and then embedded that video, which I found odd because he's praising Boonen in that interview, except for those who treat Boonen like a God.

And the problem with Boonen is not that he hasn't won Liège but that he hasn't even ever started it. Same for Cancellara, by the way.
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I vaguely remember Boonen saying once that he could maybe top-20 Liège or something (or I'm imagining it), but that it is utterly pointless, which is completely right of course.

Sure I'm just humbly and honestly saying that I couldn't speak about that race and you claim I'm acting as if I know everything. What would it be when I really do, then ... And no I'm not watching every single stage of every single stage race. Other things to do, sometimes ...
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No no, I meant Roger :p
 
E

Echoes

Oct 8, 2009
3,391
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Re: Ronde van Vlaanderen v Paris - Roubaix - which one is ha

Top20 is a good reason to race it. If only out of respect for the organisers. The Pesant would certainly have loved to have Boonen in their race.

Sorry for the misunderstanding. :)
 
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