Agreed. At least there is no doubt regards number 1 - next 4 or 5 can be any order.
Problem is these days is that the great tour winners dont ride classics or at least successfully.
I have been racing since 50s so not biased for past 70 years.
Problem is these days is that the great tour winners dont ride classics or at least successfully.
I have been racing since 50s so not biased for past 70 years.
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You have been racing since the 1950s! When did you start? When you were 2?
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Cobo never won a GT.
Which brings up another point: no amount of prohibited methods would ever propel a rider to 34 TDF sprint victories.
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Saying Cobo never won, but Froome yes, is pure hilarity. As to your second point, ask Cipollini or Zabel, etc.
And then there is just no comparison between GT material riders and sprinters, so the point is moot. They must be treated separately, the one of more the other of less noble elements on the Periodic Table.
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Better at sprinting if that's what you mean, because Evans was definitely the better all around racer.
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"People are made up of two parts: a mind and a body. Of the two, the mind, of course, is the rider."
It was never Evans's mind that got him over the finish line first.
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Right the body is the engine and his was of the rather large cylinder type.
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Cookster15
Moderator
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Never? Nonsense. Once he won at Mendrisio Cadel's mind was immense. Go rewatch him pull the peloton up the Galibier chasing Andy and then again the following day after a mechanical to the Alpe and tell me his mind wasn't strong. His 2009 worlds win gave him self belief.
Cookster15
Moderator
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No Australian cycling fan would consider mcKewan to be a better racer than Cadel. McEwan was a sprinter who did his bit in the last 400 metres after getting a free ride from his teammates.
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I guess we have a different definition of "mind". I was referring to tactics, cunning, skill, etc. "Not prematurely giving up before body is exhausted" doesn't count as a skill to me. Seems like the bare minimum to be considered a professional.
Cookster15
Moderator
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Bare minimum? LOL, I think Evans finished with a pretty good palmares for any professional. Obviously you didn’t follow Evans closely enough.
Cadel was as tough as they come and was one of the best descenders in the peloton. Later in his career he also knew when to attack and how to position himself in the bunch. Sounds like skill to me?
When did he give up prematurely ? 9/10 pros would have given up in his situation on the Galiber that day or on the following stage when Andy and Contador teamed up. Did Contador give up when he cracked unable to hold Cadel’s wheel?
Edit:- An example how he learned was rather than immediately follow he would measure his efforts and diesel back to the wheel. In 2007 he blew himself up chasing every attack by Chicken and Alberto.
Evans never had a team full of climbers as Schlecks and Sastre did in 2008. No doubt Evans 2009 worlds win gave him self belief that was missing. But after that day nobody can accuse Evans of giving up or lacking skill. Who has defended yellow with a broken arm?
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The pilot, but unlike the pilot the cyclist is also the engine. Your anology is patently stupid.
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I think the Danish site prestigelisten.dk does a very good job of an all-time ranking. The only thing I have an issue with is that they weigh the WCRR 60% more than a monument which I think is too much, but I'm sure they have their reasons for that.
There are no points for secondary placings on stages, there is no difference between second and third in races apart from Olympics and Worlds where there are medals at play, there area few points for having the leader's jersey in Grand Tour but they decrease after the first couple of stages. There are only points for top 10 in Grand Tours, top 5 in monuments, podiums in other big races and only wins in the smallest races they have included (which isn't just picked generically as all .1 races but carefully selected).
Today they launched a new website. It's for now only in Danish but I think it should be manageable to navigate it. The link below is to the points system.
Spoiler: Merckx is number 1.
There are no points for secondary placings on stages, there is no difference between second and third in races apart from Olympics and Worlds where there are medals at play, there area few points for having the leader's jersey in Grand Tour but they decrease after the first couple of stages. There are only points for top 10 in Grand Tours, top 5 in monuments, podiums in other big races and only wins in the smallest races they have included (which isn't just picked generically as all .1 races but carefully selected).
Today they launched a new website. It's for now only in Danish but I think it should be manageable to navigate it. The link below is to the points system.
Spoiler: Merckx is number 1.
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Honestly, i see this guy pass by on twitter and the times my eyes rolled out of their sockets by reading his lists, can no longer be counted.I think the Danish site prestigelisten.dk does a very good job of an all-time ranking. The only thing I have an issue with is that they weigh the WCRR 60% more than a monument which I think is too much, but I'm sure they have their reasons for that.
There are no points for secondary placings on stages, there is no difference between second and third in races apart from Olympics and Worlds where there are medals at play, there area few points for having the leader's jersey in Grand Tour but they decrease after the first couple of stages. There are only points for top 10 in Grand Tours, top 5 in monuments, podiums in other big races and only wins in the smallest races they have included (which isn't just picked generically as all .1 races but carefully picked).
Today they launched a new website. It's for now only in Danish but I think it should be manageable to navigate it. The link below is to the points system.
Spoiler: Merckx is number 1.
Last week he used his parameters to judge who the best pro cyclists are born this millennium. Wait, let me look for it.
View: https://twitter.com/prestigelisten/status/1680263958597603328
Skjelmose at 3. Mayrhofer at 9. Vernon at 10. lolwut?
No Kooij or De Lie in sight. Sounds legit.
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It's only based on their system. I don't think De Lie or Kooij have scored yet because all the races De Lie won last year were not races they rate (and that's of course a problem with their list, because it doesn't take into account when a rider has such an impressive season as De Lie had if it's only in smaller races). And Kooij have probably only won stages in races they don't rate.
Skjelmose has won the Tour of Switzerland.
So I hope your eyes will stay in their sockets next time you. Their system is probably made to avoid the things people always say are what keep Valverde so high in such list - lots of secondary results and wins in Spanish February races (Valverde is of course still number 1 between the riders who didn't retire before this millennium).
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That's what i said, based on their system. So clearly their system is flawed. Mayrhofer his only notable result is winning the prestigious Cadel Evans Formidable Fantastic Worldly Sea Race. Uijtdebroeks
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Yes, the list cannot be used well to rank riders who are only starting their careers. But if Mayrhofer didn't win that race, he would also have 0 points, because only wins count. And it is a WT race, whether you like it or not.
In the tier 1 WT stage races, only stage winners and top 3s get points.
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@Pantani_lives any chance you could update your ranking after the Tour for a mid-season refresh?
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Which is why 'all WT races and nothing else' is a seriously flawed metric no matter what you're trying to measure. Does anyone really think CEGORR or the Tour of Guangxi is a bigger deal than Kuurne or Emilia?
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