Ryders crash -motor?

[yespatterns]

This may be the most awesome thread ever.I haven't seen the video yet, but I'm thinking alien technology. If you need me I'll be at the store buying tinfoil. Also, Spartacus wants this thread naturalized. But don't.

 

[sniper]

Two questions for you:
1. what part of the bike do you think was touching the ground?
2. what did I say was touching the ground?

i stand corrected, misread your post.

but your claim that it's due to gravity does not seem to hold.
from what i can tell, the incline seems not at all steep enough.
and note that the bike turns on the asphalt much more degrees than your theory would predict and, NB, at a constant speed, i.e. no acceleration and subsequent de-acceleration, as your theory would predict.
look at the video, it just doesn't look like gravity-induced, not at all in fact.

 

[Cycle Chic]

This may be the most awesome thread ever.I haven't seen the video yet, but I'm thinking alien technology. If you need me I'll be at the store buying tinfoil. Also, Spartacus wants this thread naturalized. But don't.

so you havent even seen the footage ?? what are you posting for then ?? oh yeh just like lots of other posters in this thread 'you just love the sight of your own posts'

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You went frame-by-frame, but missed the picture of the popcorn and soda?

How is that even possible?

*whoosh* NO idea what you're talking about.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

From experimental data (see the Discussion section of my paper at http://www.bikephysics.com), we know the rear wheel had roughly 30 Joules of kinetic energy after the crash (assuming 50 km/hr speed at time of crash).

The bike, at second 12 of the video begins to spin at a rate of roughly 2 pi radians per second. Assuming a bike mass of 7 kg, and assuming the mass is evenly distributed for ease of calculation, pivoting on its handlebars would give a moment of inertia of I = 7kg * 0.5m * 0.5m. I ~ 2kgm^2.

So after the crash, when the bike begins to spin, it attains a kinetic energy of KE = 1/2 I w^2. KE = 0.5 * 2 * (2*3.14)^2. That means the spinning bike had approximately 40 Joules of energy.

That's... right on the hairy edge of possibility and the plausibility is rather weak. It begs for more experimentation, but I doubt Ryder would take a dive for science.

John Swanson

 

[doolols]

Haven't you missed a huge assumption here, John? That all the energy from the wheel is transmitted into the turning moment for the bike, and therefore that the coefficient of friction between the tyre and road is 1. This is unlikely, especially as the bike had stopped, but the tyre is still spinning, and the wheel is very lightly loaded in the vertical direction.

 

[MonkeyFace]

This should be very easy to duplicate. Pick up a bike and spin the back wheel to 20 mph or so and then lay the bike down. Just mythbuster it.

 

[doolols]

The more I watch this video, the more dodgy this looks.

When he first hits the ground, the rear tyre is definitely in contact with the road, because it bounces up and then goes back onto the road. The bike spins and then comes to a stop when Ryder unclips, and then the bike begins spinning again. At no time does the wheel come off the road.

And looking at the footage of when he first comes off, the back wheel steps out slightly. This could be oil on the road (he was taking a different line to the other two), but then someone else would have come down in the peloton. OR the back wheel steps out because the motor control system goes wrong, engages full power, and Ryder doesn't have time to turn it off.

 

[Master50]

We have taken time to examine 2 of Ryder's bikes at the local shop and no signs of anything other than stock bicycle parts and nothing to suggest there were ever motors installed.
Ever watch wheels on TV? Never see them turn backward when the vehicle was unequivocally moving forward? I don't really know if TV scans can get the same effect but it is pretty normal for a film camera to take a picture at a point where the wheel looks to be turning opposite of the real direction of rotation. then a few frames later or a change in vehicle speed make the wheel look to be spinning the other way.
The other thing is he was riding past olive groves and the roads were greasy so there was some reduction in normal friction.

This is just silly. There is no motor. So lovely to see the fun.

 

[Benotti69]

We have taken time to examine 2 of Ryder's bikes at the local shop and no signs of anything other than stock bicycle parts and nothing to suggest there were ever motors installed.
Ever watch wheels on TV? Never see them turn backward when the vehicle was unequivocally moving forward? I don't really know if TV scans can get the same effect but it is pretty normal for a film camera to take a picture at a point where the wheel looks to be turning opposite of the real direction of rotation. then a few frames later or a change in vehicle speed make the wheel look to be spinning the other way.
The other thing is he was riding past olive groves and the roads were greasy so there was some reduction in normal friction.

This is just silly. There is no motor. So lovely to see the fun.

I dont which is sadder that you guys actually checked Hesjedal's old bikes for motors or that people are discussing it!

 

[doolols]

We have taken time to examine 2 of Ryder's bikes at the local shop and no signs of anything other than stock bicycle parts and nothing to suggest there were ever motors installed.

But did you check that particular bike?

 

[kingjr]

But if Hesjedal is only average on the motorized bike, how did he manage to get back to Tschopp and get 2nd on the stage on a spare bike? Or was that motorized too?

 

[BigMac]

I say get Vaughters here asap.

 

[ScienceIsCool]

Haven't you missed a huge assumption here, John? That all the energy from the wheel is transmitted into the turning moment for the bike, and therefore that the coefficient of friction between the tyre and road is 1. This is unlikely, especially as the bike had stopped, but the tyre is still spinning, and the wheel is very lightly loaded in the vertical direction.

Yup. But the idea was to only make an estimation of the energies involved. That way if the spinning bike had way more energy than the wheel, there would be no way the wheel was responsible for the spinning bike. But as it turns out, the two energies are pretty close to one another. So we don't really need exact measurements to know that what we saw in the video is at least possible. However, it would have been nice to have *way* more energy in the rear wheel than the spinning bike, because that would make everything more plausible.

John Swanson

 

[sniper]

interesting, scienceiscool, thanks for expanding.
i agree with doolols, it looks as if ryder lets himself fall. No signs of a slip. Odd to say the least.
Perhaps there's a post race interview with Ryder where he expands on the event?

 

[yespatterns]

so you havent even seen the footage ?? what are you posting for then ?? oh yeh just like lots of other posters in this thread 'you just love the sight of your own posts'

It was a joke. And a satirical statement on the similar aspects of the conspiracy theory laden Spartacus incident awhile back. Nothing to get twisted about.

 

[D-Queued]

*whoosh* NO idea what you're talking about.

Sigh

'Subliminal Advertising'

This being illegal in your country, as well as in the UK.

Takes the fun out of the joke, though, when you have to explain it.

In this case, as we are well into conspiracy theory... and a frame-by-frame analysis... leads logically to what message may have been implanted there, and for what purpose...

Sigh.

Dave.

 

[kingjr]

interesting, scienceiscool, thanks for expanding.
i agree with doolols, it looks as if ryder lets himself fall.

You are kidding, right? No offence, i just want to know

 

[Cycle Chic]

You are kidding, right? No offence, i just want to know

no ! the rider behind Hesjedal swerved suddenly and he didnt fall on the 'olive oily' road

 

[yespatterns]

In all seriousness, just checked out the steephill video, it definitely looks odd. Has anyone actually picked up on it besides the forums?

 

[doolols]

it looks as if ryder lets himself fall. No signs of a slip. Odd to say the least.

I did think (earlier) that the rear wheel stepped out, but if it did, it was almost imperceptible. Contrast that with the rider behind who, presumably, locked up the back wheel momentarily, it skids, but he doesn't go down at all. When the view is cleared by the rider turning inside Ryder, the back wheel still seems in line with the front. There was no sign of the front wheel slipping, which it would do if the road was Olive Oily [(c) Cycle Chic]

 

[sniper]

i'm noticing lots of honorable - yet miserably failed* - attempts at being funny in this thread by those incapable to engage with the topic. keep it up!


*i'll give jensattacks a pass here.

 

[sniper]

Sigh

'Subliminal Advertising'

This being illegal in your country, as well as in the UK.

Takes the fun out of the joke, though, when you have to explain it.

In this case, as we are well into conspiracy theory... and a frame-by-frame analysis... leads logically to what message may have been implanted there, and for what purpose...

Sigh.

Dave.

Dave, seriously question, i see two options here, either Hesjedal let himself fall for some odd reason, or he's among the worst decenders in the history of cycling.
which is it?

 

[kingjr]

Dave, seriously question, i see two options here, either Hesjedal let himself fall for some odd reason, or he's among the worst decenders in the history of cycling.
which is it?

If we put aside for a moment that most likely no one who wants to fall on purpose would do it like that, what do you think would have been a sufficient reason for Hesjedal to let himself fall?

 

[BigMac]

Dave, seriously question, i see two options here, either Hesjedal let himself fall for some odd reason, or he's among the worst decenders in the history of cycling.
which is it?

Maybe he inclined himself too much there, and when felt the wheels slipping, he let go. The crash may also have been caused by irregularities in the tarmac due to it melting because of the heat and solidifying in a different shape. I'd go with the first option, which is bad cornering.