Ryders crash -motor?

[Cycle Chic]

If we put aside for a moment that most likely no one who wants to fall on purpose would do it like that, what do you think would have been a sufficient reason for Hesjedal to let himself fall?

who says he fell on purpose -??

god why do we have to keep repeating over and over...just read the posts and it has already been explained.

 

[kingjr]

who says he fell on purpose -??

it looks as if ryder lets himself fall. No signs of a slip

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[jens_attacks]

guys we have to bring vaughters here. we demand some explanations!

 

[sniper]

Maybe he inclined himself too much there, and when felt the wheels slipping, he let go. The crash may also have been caused by irregularities in the tarmac due to it melting because of the heat and solidifying in a different shape. I'd go with the first option, which is bad cornering.

dunno.
it's an awkward fall.
i don't see his wheels slipping.
very clumsy, to say the least.
and don't forget, according to JV we're talking about perhaps the greatest cyclist in the modern history of cycling here.

 

[sniper]

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yeah, well, to be sure, i'm not claiming i know what happened there.
but again, his fall seems extremely clumsy and unnecessary.
see also doolols' commentary.

 

[kingjr]

yeah, well, to be sure, i'm not claiming i know what happened there.

No one said you do, I was just asking for your personal opinion on why he would let himself fall.

 

[sniper]

No one said you do, I was just asking for your personal opinion on why he would let himself fall.

see doolols comments.
it could be - could be - related to his rear wheel overdrive system malfunctioning.
what other options did he have?
if he'd break hard, he'd fly all over the place, if he'd do nothing he might not hold the curve and crash against the railing.
bottomline: if, going into that curve, he knew there was something wrong with his bike, letting himself fall to the side may have been the most plausible option.

and note that we haven't heard any explanation from Ryder yet.
don't you think that if his fall were due to oil on the road, he (or his spokesman JV) would be twittering about it or venting his anger about it in some interview?
the fall itself got plenty of coverage due to the motor crushing his bike, so there was all reason for Ryder to comment on the fall in some interview or on twitter.
but instead it's crickets.

 

[Granville57]

This may be the most awesome thread ever.

It's definitely on the podium. I feel like we're just getting warmed up.

We have taken time to examine 2 of Ryder's bikes at the local shop and no signs of anything other than stock bicycle parts and nothing to suggest there were ever motors installed.

Please clarify. Do you mean recently? As in since this incident? Or at some time in the past (and for what reason was that)?

But the fact that ANY rider's (Ryder's) bikes were left at the local shop and turned out to be 100% UCI compliant should hardly be newsworthy.

And who is "we"?

 

[Granville57]

Without going back and quoting specific members...

Regarding the road surface and such:
The rider who brakes behind Ryder (have we established who that is?) is on a different line. His rear wheel skids a bit but he seems to maintain control without too much difficulty. If there was oil or some other substance on the road, it doesn't mean they both would've been affected by it because they are on slightly different trajectories.

One other item of note:
At the 0:10 mark, Ryder's rear wheel appears to hit the road with a substantial horizontal impact. It looks briefly as if there is some deformity in the wheel as a result of this, which, of course, wouldn't be all that surprising. But I'm wondering if that would've inhibited the wheel from rotating—brake rub, etc. This would make any movement thereafter even stranger—and could possibly rule out any rotation of the wheel taking place, as opposed to it sliding. We just can't see from this footage if there is rotation of the wheel itself or not.

 

[Granville57]

You mean frames 208–211?

No, I mean the missing 18 minutes: Final Nixon tapes to be released http://www.cbsnews.com/news/final-nixon-tapes-to-be-released/

I was actually making a reference to this:

 

[kingjr]

see doolols comments.
it could be - could be - related to his rear wheel overdrive system malfunctioning.

Is there any known technology that could power only the rear wheel (without moving the cranks) that would not be visible to the eyes of other riders or specators even when the camera is very close?

 

[Nicko.]

That's an easy one, yes there is.
'All' electric rotational motors have a 'stator' and a 'rotor'.

I give you 'Frame' and 'Wheel'.
Put magnets in the rim and a series of coils in the wheel cutout of the frame, fire away

Or swap places, have the coils, batteries and electronics in the wheel. Very inconspicuous...

 

[sniper]

Is there any known technology that could power only the rear wheel (without moving the cranks) that would not be visible to the eyes of other riders or specators even when the camera is very close?

if there wasn't, they'd be working on it.
this is a million dollar industry.

That's an easy one, yes there is.
'All' electric rotational motors have a 'stator' and a 'rotor'.

I give you 'Frame' and 'Wheel.
Put magnets in the rim and a series of coils in the wheel cutout of the frame, fire away

interesting.

 

[mewmewmew13]

guys we have to bring vaughters here. we demand some explanations!

JV is gonna love this one...

 

[sniper]

One other item of note:
At the 0:10 mark, Ryder's rear wheel appears to hit the road with a substantial horizontal impact. It looks briefly as if there is some deformity in the wheel as a result of this, which, of course, wouldn't be all that surprising. But I'm wondering if that would've inhibited the wheel from rotating—brake rub, etc. This would make any movement thereafter even stranger—and could possibly rule out any rotation of the wheel taking place, as opposed to it sliding. We just can't see from this footage if there is rotation of the wheel itself or not.

the bolded is the core of the matter.
sceptics like hrotha, hitch and mewmewmew should have an extra look at that moment and then wonder if there'd be enough natural spin left in the rear wheel for it to turn the bike like that.

 

[doolols]

At the 0:10 mark, Ryder's rear wheel appears to hit the road with a substantial horizontal impact. It looks briefly as if there is some deformity in the wheel as a result of this, which, of course, wouldn't be all that surprising

Did you mean vertical impact? And yes, the wheel visibly deforms under that impact, but it's possible to continue rotation because it just bounces off the tarmac. But, once the wheel returns to the tarmac, it appears to stay on the tarmac (due to the front of the bike being lifted up by the bars at right angles to the frame, and the bike resting on the side of the bars). The bike spins round, but comes to rest, with the back tyre on the tarmac. It's hard to see how the rear wheel can then continue / restart spinning under those circumstances.

Edit: the bike is supported at the front by one / both brake levers.

 

[Granville57]

Did you mean vertical impact?

No.

Normal riding position for a wheel is vertical. I

When the rear wheel hits the ground, it does so horizontally, — thus possibly deforming it.

The rear wheel is nearly parallel with the road surface at the point of impact. That is what I was referring to.

 

[mewmewmew13]

^^^

 

[poupou]

That lecture could help too
http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/I_18.html#Ch18-S2

 

[willbick]

i gotta say it DOES look dodgy! i find it very hard to believe 1) the rear wheel would still be spinning with much rpm after that much contact with the ground and 2) even if it was somehow spinning with a reasonable rpm that it would cause the bike to keep moving over that distance with apparently no decelleration, in fact the rotation of the bike seems to be accelerating if anything, continuing to rotate the bike all the way until its hit by the moto.

and regarding the crank, can u say with total certainty that it ISNT turning? he's obviously gonna be in a big gear so the crank might only turn a small amount which is hard to see for certain

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

If you look really closely, you can see a motor in the apple!

 

[doolols]

No.

Normal riding position for a wheel is vertical. I

When the rear wheel hits the ground, it does so horizontally, — thus possibly deforming it.

The rear wheel is nearly parallel with the road surface at the point of impact. That is what I was referring to.

Indeed. The wheel was horizontal when it hit the tarmac. The impact was vertical (gravity and all that). /Pedantry

The acceleration of the spinning of the bike (from stationary when unclipping to whirling like a dervish when it gets run over) COULD be explained by the wheel continuing to rotate, skidding across the smooth tarmac but gradually gaining traction and accelerating the spinning of the bike. But for that to happen, the wheel would still need to be spinning, and I can't see that happening since it's in contact with the tarmac all the time from when it bounces back after the vertical / horizontal impact until it gets run over, including the time when the bike is stationary.

 

[Granville57]

If you look really closely, you can see a motor in the apple!

Garmin on a Pre-Vuelta training ride:

 

[Freddythefrog]

I was a sceptic as well

Motorised bikes !

Then I bumped into an engineer who designs miniature motors with battery power supplies for specialist applications; a Swiss guy working for a Swiss company. He has been doing it for years and flies all over the world doing specialist fitments. Listened to him and whilst I thought it was bonkers, he didn't. He had never heard any theory about motors being fitted to bikes but he thought it was quite attainable with technology available through the last decade or even earlier.

I put that on the back burner.

Now that video is weird. Ignore the stuff about Ryder turning on the motor for the descent, that handlebar and left hand lever smack the ground with a hit. Where's the switch - I don't know but it is going to be somewhere where the rider has his hands normally, it is not going to be a toggle switch on a fascia with a label "on for turbo boost" so it could easily be damaged in the crash and turn on.

Left hand pedal hard on the road, cranks turn through 130°, bike rotates around pedal on end of crank that is still trying to turn?

I don't see that bike turning on its own and a bit more important than my opinion of a few seconds of vid, neither do Ryder or the motorcyclist and they were the closest ones to the event.

 

[Granville57]

I don't see that bike turning on its own and a bit more important than my opinion of a few seconds of vid, neither do Ryder or the motorcyclist and they were the closest ones to the event.

Not sure how you're arriving at that conclusion.