Sagan Clean?

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Apr 20, 2016
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Tienus said:
Just for fun a link to what I think are three riders with motors battling.
At 3:30 Cancellara is doing his seated attack and Sagan follows. For me it doesnt look right if i focus only on the legs of Sagan.
https://youtu.be/kzw-96RkfL8?t=3m30s
I remember watchng that stage live...exciting finish! I watched the video you posted several times, and a family member looked at it a couple times also...so what isn't suppose to appear right with either Sagan or Spartacus? I see two very big guys producing big time power up a short, steep climb that flattens out near the finish...nothing out of the norm there. Look at the quads on these guys and their muscularity; those physical attributes can produce big-time power on short bursts. Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much? Wouldn't he be able to give less effort and keep his tempo going with a motor? Also, when the course flattens out both he & Sagan let up continuously looking back - why not keep charging if you're using a motor for that extra power? (they both look little toasted at that point...trying to stay clear of the charging peloton). IMO, Sagan just out-kicks an older Cancellara for the win...nothing too overwhelming there.

Maybe Mr. Froome should be the center of attention on this issue. Here's a very dimuinitive, frail, anorexic-looking rider doing his best Cancellara impression by crushing TTs with massive amount of power. Lol. Doesn’t that sound like the possibility of a motor involved? (the guy never demonstrated TT ability before the Miracle transformation of 2011). But he's Britain's "holier-than-thou" hero, so instead people are suspicious of big, muscular talented riders that can generate big-time power. Don't know what I'm missing on the video, other than seeing two very talented Clydesdales duking it out on one heck of a finish up a short, steep incline. :)
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Tienus said:
Just for fun a link to what I think are three riders with motors battling.
At 3:30 Cancellara is doing his seated attack and Sagan follows. For me it doesnt look right if i focus only on the legs of Sagan.
https://youtu.be/kzw-96RkfL8?t=3m30s
Good spot. The sudden high cadence on Sagan whilst jumping onto Cances wheel looks odd. Actually quite like what we saw from Froome on Ventoux. The high spinning, seated, massive acceleration. Unreal.
 
Jan 30, 2016
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Maybe they have more but I can't figure why they don't show it.
This is exactly what I was thinking at the time it was aired.

After naming Roglic I think there evidence is actually strong.
 
Jan 30, 2016
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Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much?
Because he is trying to drop another rider with a motor.



Also, when the course flattens out both he & Sagan let up continuously looking back - why not keep charging if you're using a motor for that extra power? (they both look little toasted at that point...trying to stay clear of the charging peloton). IMO, Sagan just out-kicks an older Cancellara for the win...nothing too overwhelming there.
The power Cancellara produced should have been more than Sagan as he was drafting. The SRM file from Sagan was online.
From Sagans wiki;
According to Sagan's SRM file, in the final 1.5 km when Cancellara initiated the move, Sagan ramped up his cadence to over 120rpm to stay with him and averaged 493 watts of power in the last 2 minutes 20 seconds of the race. His power output surged to 1,236 watts in the finale, averaging 970 watts in the last 200 metres.
There is a picture of the last 3k graph on this site:
edited: this graph was from stage 6
A couple more graphs here:
https://theathleteclinic.com/2012/07/03/tour-de-france-power-profiles-peter-sagan-stage-1-win/
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Nomad said:
Tienus said:
Just for fun a link to what I think are three riders with motors battling.
At 3:30 Cancellara is doing his seated attack and Sagan follows. For me it doesnt look right if i focus only on the legs of Sagan.
https://youtu.be/kzw-96RkfL8?t=3m30s
I remember watchng that stage live...exciting finish! I watched the video you posted several times, and a family member looked at it a couple times also...so what isn't suppose to appear right with either Sagan or Spartacus? I see two very big guys producing big time power up a short, steep climb that flattens out near the finish...nothing out of the norm there. Look at the quads on these guys and their muscularity; those physical attributes can produce big-time power on short bursts. Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much? Wouldn't he be able to give less effort and keep his tempo going with a motor? Also, when the course flattens out both he & Sagan let up continuously looking back - why not keep charging if you're using a motor for that extra power? (they both look little toasted at that point...trying to stay clear of the charging peloton). IMO, Sagan just out-kicks an older Cancellara for the win...nothing too overwhelming there.

Maybe Mr. Froome should be the center of attention on this issue. Here's a very dimuinitive, frail, anorexic-looking rider doing his best Cancellara impression by crushing TTs with massive amount of power. Lol. Doesn’t that sound like the possibility of a motor involved? (the guy never demonstrated TT ability before the Miracle transformation of 2011). But he's Britain's "holier-than-thou" hero, so instead people are suspicious of big, muscular talented riders that can generate big-time power. Don't know what I'm missing on the video, other than seeing two very talented Clydesdales duking it out on one heck of a finish up a short, steep incline. :)
Good laugh on this post. So you've had your family member couple of times looking at it? Then everything is all rght for sure. Everybody knows family members are well known to be cycling experts. Hard evidence there.

And when you think things can't get more ridiculous...
Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much? Wouldn't he be able to give less effort and keep his tempo going with a motor?
If I was cheating, using motor in such situation, certainly I would give it my best to look as fresh as daisy. Because everybody would say themselves "look at him, he looks fresh as daisy, he certainly isn't cheating", right?

Why are you trying to shift attention to Froome from Mr. Sagan here? Froome has his own thread where he was questioned for his TTing many times over the yers, by much, much more people than who question Sagan here.

Actually TTing ability was only ability Froome showed some glimpses of before 2011 "miraculous transformation". Froome has lower body fat than Sagan as you point out but that in fact could be advantage even in TTing. But he is not diminutive, he's tall actually, taller than Sagan or Cancellara. More importantly long TTs aren't only about power, they are about aerobic ability too so if Froome is superior in that regard to Cancellara or Sagan (as can be expected due to his smaller muscularity) he can compete with heavier, more muscular riders. In conformity with that he never was that good in shorter TT's or prologues which are more about power. And, not least importantly, he isn't tht dominant TTs which is how your opinion looks like according to your statement. There are better.

I am not saying Sagan or Cancellara is using motor there. I am just pointing out that your argumentation is faulty. Trying to shift focus to Froome is incomprehensible thus it raises some suspection why are you doing that.
 
Dec 25, 2016
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Incredible power data.

I think even more compelling is HOW can a clean rider perform well from January to September. I don't recall anyone in the 90s doing that.
 
Dec 25, 2016
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This is what Dr.Ferrari wrote about Sagan:

2013: "SAGAN: the 23 year-old Slovak surely won a lot, maybe he raced too much, but failed in the most important races, where he was the touted favorite, showing some limitations, for the moment, over the distance."

2015: "A Tour of Flanders with too many crashes and sensational incidents was dominated by the strongest rider of the period: Alexander Kristoff, with brutal force and a chain constantly on the 11 sprocket in the final few kilometers, easily got rid of the most dangerous opponents and dominated the final sprint ahead of a good Terpstra, while Sagan found himself yet again without legs in the decisive moments of the race."

2016: "PETER SAGAN has grown up: no longer subject to long distances, he dominated Gent and Flanders.
With the aid (not decisive, but significant) of Kwiatkow-SKY, he managed to get a few seconds gap off Fabian CANCELLARA; a gap that the Swiss rider failed to cover over the last 15 km of the windswept plains. The two athletes battled each other for a quarter of an hour in a thrilling duel on the edge of 50km/h separated by 12-14 seconds: the Czech pushing at 105-110RPM, the Swiss on slightly lower cadences; had he had the same form of a few years ago, he would have closed on his opponent in just a couple of kilometers."

And this is the last few km of Flanders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXkLkQ_IJXY
 
Sep 10, 2013
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sniper said:
Good grief, that's an insane powerpeak in the finale.
Compelling evidence.
Of what? A motor? You might presume it as evidence of doping but it is not definitely not evidence of a motor. In fact, it's the contrary.

Power from a motor driving the bottom bracket spindle would not show in a rider's power data. The power meter's torque is measured between the rank and the spindle. These "motors" as already speculated about put the power directly into the spindle so they would reduce a riders power reading for any given effort or acceleration
 
Jan 30, 2016
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Farcanal said:
sniper said:
Good grief, that's an insane powerpeak in the finale.
Compelling evidence.
Of what? A motor? You might presume it as evidence of doping but it is not definitely not evidence of a motor. In fact, it's the contrary.

Power from a motor driving the bottom bracket spindle would not show in a rider's power data. The power meter's torque is measured between the rank and the spindle. These "motors" as already speculated about put the power directly into the spindle so they would reduce a riders power reading for any given effort or acceleration

The power from a bottombracket motor will be measured by SRM powermeters or any other spider based powermeter. Your statement would be correct if Sagan would be using a crank based powermeter.
 
May 12, 2010
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sniper said:
Good grief, that's an insane powerpeak in the finale.
Compelling evidence.
BS, this is a perfectly fine graph for a finale. I bet, you have never ever looked at your own PM data or any actual PM data at all. He's a world class athlete, maybe on high-octane but not on a motor.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Mr.38% said:
sniper said:
Good grief, that's an insane powerpeak in the finale.
Compelling evidence.
BS, this is a perfectly fine graph for a finale. I bet, you have never ever looked at your own PM data or any actual PM data at all. He's a world class athlete, maybe on high-octane but not on a motor.
Sagan using a motor i'm pretty much certain.

but you're right, that PM data may not be the compelling evidence i made it out to be.

still, can you show me a similar power graph from another cyclist?
would love to see one.
 
May 12, 2010
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sniper said:
Mr.38% said:
sniper said:
Good grief, that's an insane powerpeak in the finale.
Compelling evidence.
BS, this is a perfectly fine graph for a finale. I bet, you have never ever looked at your own PM data or any actual PM data at all. He's a world class athlete, maybe on high-octane but not on a motor.
Sagan using a motor i'm pretty much certain.

but you're right, that PM data may not be the compelling evidence i made it out to be.

still, can you show me a similar power graph from another cyclist?
would love to see one.
As I said, all of my graphs in the same situation would (or do) look like this, just on a much lower absolute level. Go at VO2Max, peak within a second or two to open a gap, shortly settle on a high level to avoid blowing up, then keep the other riders away and pull through, slowly fading away. So what are you actually questioning here? His numbers are huge but I'm sure I can average 700+W for 18 seconds at the end of a race and I'm just a cat1.

Regarding the footage at Flanders, everything is possible but his body language is far more believable than Cancellara's moto-rides.
 
Apr 20, 2016
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Kokoso said:
Nomad said:
Tienus said:
Just for fun a link to what I think are three riders with motors battling.
At 3:30 Cancellara is doing his seated attack and Sagan follows. For me it doesnt look right if i focus only on the legs of Sagan.
https://youtu.be/kzw-96RkfL8?t=3m30s
I remember watchng that stage live...exciting finish! I watched the video you posted several times, and a family member looked at it a couple times also...so what isn't suppose to appear right with either Sagan or Spartacus? I see two very big guys producing big time power up a short, steep climb that flattens out near the finish...nothing out of the norm there. Look at the quads on these guys and their muscularity; those physical attributes can produce big-time power on short bursts. Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much? Wouldn't he be able to give less effort and keep his tempo going with a motor? Also, when the course flattens out both he & Sagan let up continuously looking back - why not keep charging if you're using a motor for that extra power? (they both look little toasted at that point...trying to stay clear of the charging peloton). IMO, Sagan just out-kicks an older Cancellara for the win...nothing too overwhelming there.

Maybe Mr. Froome should be the center of attention on this issue. Here's a very dimuinitive, frail, anorexic-looking rider doing his best Cancellara impression by crushing TTs with massive amount of power. Lol. Doesn’t that sound like the possibility of a motor involved? (the guy never demonstrated TT ability before the Miracle transformation of 2011). But he's Britain's "holier-than-thou" hero, so instead people are suspicious of big, muscular talented riders that can generate big-time power. Don't know what I'm missing on the video, other than seeing two very talented Clydesdales duking it out on one heck of a finish up a short, steep incline. :)
Good laugh on this post. So you've had your family member couple of times looking at it? Then everything is all rght for sure. Everybody knows family members are well known to be cycling experts. Hard evidence there.

And when you think things can't get more ridiculous...
Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much? Wouldn't he be able to give less effort and keep his tempo going with a motor?
If I was cheating, using motor in such situation, certainly I would give it my best to look as fresh as daisy. Because everybody would say themselves "look at him, he looks fresh as daisy, he certainly isn't cheating", right?

Why are you trying to shift attention to Froome from Mr. Sagan here? Froome has his own thread where he was questioned for his TTing many times over the yers, by much, much more people than who question Sagan here.

Actually TTing ability was only ability Froome showed some glimpses of before 2011 "miraculous transformation". Froome has lower body fat than Sagan as you point out but that in fact could be advantage even in TTing. But he is not diminutive, he's tall actually, taller than Sagan or Cancellara. More importantly long TTs aren't only about power, they are about aerobic ability too so if Froome is superior in that regard to Cancellara or Sagan (as can be expected due to his smaller muscularity) he can compete with heavier, more muscular riders. In conformity with that he never was that good in shorter TT's or prologues which are more about power. And, not least importantly, he isn't tht dominant TTs which is how your opinion looks like according to your statement. There are better.

I am not saying Sagan or Cancellara is using motor there. I am just pointing out that your argumentation is faulty. Trying to shift focus to Froome is incomprehensible thus it raises some suspection why are you doing that.
C'mon...man (as they say on "Monday Night football")...you ARE saying that Spartacus & Sagan are using a motor, or you wouldn't have ridiculed me for arguing that they aren’t. Who are you trying to fool?...simple common sense there based on the tone of your post. And I'm thrilled you find everything ridiculous with my post, since my arguments are faulty and your's so sound (I guess I'm just not in your league to offer a personal opinion on this issue).

And you speak of "hard evidence." Realistically, hard evidence in any of the motor argument is going to have to be tangible physical evidence such as a mechanically altered bike confiscated that's linked to a high-profile rider or team, along with video evidence, realiable witness statements, recorded conversations, etc. The kind of evidence you would need to prove a case beyond any doubt. Everything else here is just pure speculation, congecture & biased opinions. Some here have said that the UCI isn't interested in catching riders/teams with mechanically altered bikes. Maybe that's true, however, that doesn't preclude an aggressive investigative reporter(s) from obtaining sufficient evidence and wanting to make a name for themselves by going public with the information.

FWIW, shifting focus from Sagan to Froome is simply pointing out who's performances appear to be more suspicious of using a motor and/or doping. There's no magical transformation with Sagan from dud to winner. He's been a talented rider since entering WT competition. He wins a lot on courses that suits his riding style and body type. He's got a VO2max of 83 (up there with Froome), and legs built like pistons. He packs a powerful punch with that muscularity. A big, powerful athlete than can produce those impressive watts that some think are unachievable without a motor. Maybe because of the mere fact that he is very successful is evidence of biological doping in the eyes of many on the Clinic. Perhaps a possibility with low-octane PEDs, or at the least TUE drugs and non-banned substances...though I wouldn't really know (who would?). However, he doesn't look any more suspicious than others, and certainly doesn't come anywhere close to the egregious suspicion surrounding your hero, Froome.

And speaking of Froome; yes he is tall, but dimuinitive in terms of his body type. He's built like a Kenyan distance runner. Frankly, IMO, he looks anorexic & frail. Goodness, what kind of weight loss drugs is this guy using? Btw, he is dominate in TTs. Bronze in Rio after coming off his Tour performance. How about his crushing TT performances in this past Tour & Vuelta? And last year's Tour? And so on. Therefore, you tell me who appears more suspicious for motors and/or dope...your hero or Sagan???
 
Oct 16, 2010
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While I agree Froome is generally a more suspect rider, at present there is more tangible motorevidence for Sagan (as per the Stade 2 docu) than for Froome.

We already know via Cancellara that having big legs and big power doesn't mean a rider won't use a motor too.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Mr.38% said:
...
As I said, all of my graphs in the same situation would (or do) look like this, just on a much lower absolute level. Go at VO2Max, peak within a second or two to open a gap, shortly settle on a high level to avoid blowing up, then keep the other riders away and pull through, slowly fading away. So what are you actually questioning here? His numbers are huge but I'm sure I can average 700+W for 18 seconds at the end of a race and I'm just a cat1.

Regarding the footage at Flanders, everything is possible but his body language is far more believable than Cancellara's moto-rides.
thanks for expanding, points granted.
 
Re:

sniper said:
While I agree Froome is generally a more suspect rider, at present there is more tangible motorevidence for Sagan (as per the Stade 2 docu) than for Froome.

We already know via Cancellara that having big legs and big power doesn't mean a rider won't use a motor too.
We "know" Cancellara used a motor?

I still have seen no "tangible evidence" of Sagan using a motor in the Stade 2 documentary. Can you link me to the part where they show the motor footage with the thermal cam which they attribute to the 4th place rider? I didn't see where they showed this.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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Nomad said:
Kokoso said:
Nomad said:
Tienus said:
Just for fun a link to what I think are three riders with motors battling.
At 3:30 Cancellara is doing his seated attack and Sagan follows. For me it doesnt look right if i focus only on the legs of Sagan.
https://youtu.be/kzw-96RkfL8?t=3m30s
I remember watchng that stage live...exciting finish! I watched the video you posted several times, and a family member looked at it a couple times also...so what isn't suppose to appear right with either Sagan or Spartacus? I see two very big guys producing big time power up a short, steep climb that flattens out near the finish...nothing out of the norm there. Look at the quads on these guys and their muscularity; those physical attributes can produce big-time power on short bursts. Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much? Wouldn't he be able to give less effort and keep his tempo going with a motor? Also, when the course flattens out both he & Sagan let up continuously looking back - why not keep charging if you're using a motor for that extra power? (they both look little toasted at that point...trying to stay clear of the charging peloton). IMO, Sagan just out-kicks an older Cancellara for the win...nothing too overwhelming there.

Maybe Mr. Froome should be the center of attention on this issue. Here's a very dimuinitive, frail, anorexic-looking rider doing his best Cancellara impression by crushing TTs with massive amount of power. Lol. Doesn’t that sound like the possibility of a motor involved? (the guy never demonstrated TT ability before the Miracle transformation of 2011). But he's Britain's "holier-than-thou" hero, so instead people are suspicious of big, muscular talented riders that can generate big-time power. Don't know what I'm missing on the video, other than seeing two very talented Clydesdales duking it out on one heck of a finish up a short, steep incline. :)
Good laugh on this post. So you've had your family member couple of times looking at it? Then everything is all rght for sure. Everybody knows family members are well known to be cycling experts. Hard evidence there.

And when you think things can't get more ridiculous...
Furthermore, Spartacus is seriously grimacing in pain on the climb...if he's using a motor why would he be grimacing that much? Wouldn't he be able to give less effort and keep his tempo going with a motor?
If I was cheating, using motor in such situation, certainly I would give it my best to look as fresh as daisy. Because everybody would say themselves "look at him, he looks fresh as daisy, he certainly isn't cheating", right?

Why are you trying to shift attention to Froome from Mr. Sagan here? Froome has his own thread where he was questioned for his TTing many times over the yers, by much, much more people than who question Sagan here.

Actually TTing ability was only ability Froome showed some glimpses of before 2011 "miraculous transformation". Froome has lower body fat than Sagan as you point out but that in fact could be advantage even in TTing. But he is not diminutive, he's tall actually, taller than Sagan or Cancellara. More importantly long TTs aren't only about power, they are about aerobic ability too so if Froome is superior in that regard to Cancellara or Sagan (as can be expected due to his smaller muscularity) he can compete with heavier, more muscular riders. In conformity with that he never was that good in shorter TT's or prologues which are more about power. And, not least importantly, he isn't tht dominant TTs which is how your opinion looks like according to your statement. There are better.

I am not saying Sagan or Cancellara is using motor there. I am just pointing out that your argumentation is faulty. Trying to shift focus to Froome is incomprehensible thus it raises some suspection why are you doing that.
C'mon...man (as they say on "Monday Night football")...you ARE saying that Spartacus & Sagan are using a motor, or you wouldn't have ridiculed me for arguing that they aren’t. Who are you trying to fool?...simple common sense there based on the tone of your post.
No one, I really don't think that video proves Sagan using a motor. You've began with ridiculing with your post, I've just carried onin that tone. Saying that some arguments are faulty means claiming contrary? Come on.

And you speak of "hard evidence." Realistically, hard evidence in any of the motor argument is going to have to be tangible physical evidence such as a mechanically altered bike confiscated that's linked to a high-profile rider or team, along with video evidence, realiable witness statements, recorded conversations, etc. The kind of evidence you would need to prove a case beyond any doubt. Everything else here is just pure speculation, congecture & biased opinions.
Agreed, especially the last part. That's including you. Problem is, you fail to recognize that.

Some here have said that the UCI isn't interested in catching riders/teams with mechanically altered bikes. Maybe that's true, however, that doesn't preclude an aggressive investigative reporter(s) from obtaining sufficient evidence and wanting to make a name for themselves by going public with the information.
True, that's exactly what journalists in the other video are doing. But I don't see how you imagine journalist catching suspected rider: pushing him of the bike in the middle of race? Or do you think that any team or rider using bike with motor would go, present that bike to journalist and say "it's all yours to investigate". I can imagine it can be really hard, if not impossible for such journalist to obtain that bike, so probably impossible to obtain sufficient evidence.
There's no magical transformation with Sagan from dud to winner. He's been a talented rider since entering WT competition.
Most importantly you know nothing about his talent. Anyway, do you know that story when young Sagan goes and beats all in Slovakian MTB cup on his sister's borrowed *** bike? And that was in 2007, back than he was 17 years old. Speaking of miraculous stories, this sounds as miraculous as miraculous transformation of Froome. You don't have 17 years old rider beating pro's on borrowed bike, have you? I can hear argument "but he's insanly talented, duh" :) So Froome was talented but began to train really hard or he become really talented in later age and that's it ;) By the way, isn't fact that Sagan began to beat the best from point zero in very young age suspect story, too? I don't know :)

He wins a lot on courses that suits his riding style and body type. He's got a VO2max of 83 (up there with Froome), and legs built like pistons. He packs a powerful punch with that muscularity. A big, powerful athlete than can produce those impressive watts that some think are unachievable without a motor. Maybe because of the mere fact that he is very successful is evidence of biological doping in the eyes of many on the Clinic. Perhaps a possibility with low-octane PEDs, or at the least TUE drugs and non-banned substances...though I wouldn't really know (who would?). However, he doesn't look any more suspicious than others, and certainly doesn't come anywhere close to the egregious suspicion surrounding your hero, Froome
Nice adoration. We know you have soft spot for Sagan (same way you could say Froome wins on courses that suit him and that's it). Of course others have legs of mud, low VO2 max and *** punch. Certainly Sagan doesn't look as suspicious as others, all others are winning bunch of races too, aren't they? Sprinting with best, TTing, climbing with best (with such impressive muscularity) on occasion and so on. Absolutely nothing suspicous there. Why is suspicious Froome to you, anyway? He wins races which suit him, so what's the problem? If he was pack fodder, THEN he would become suspicious, or not?

Froome is not my hero (how have you come to such conlusion? Your wits begans to betray you :rolleyes: Froome is one of the most suspect out there, as is Sagan.

It's clear who your hero is though. If it's about Sagan, your rationality leaves you. Nevertheless I find it useful.
 
May 12, 2010
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sniper said:
Mr.38% said:
sniper said:
Good grief, that's an insane powerpeak in the finale.
Compelling evidence.
BS, this is a perfectly fine graph for a finale. I bet, you have never ever looked at your own PM data or any actual PM data at all. He's a world class athlete, maybe on high-octane but not on a motor.
Sagan using a motor i'm pretty much certain.

but you're right, that PM data may not be the compelling evidence i made it out to be.

still, can you show me a similar power graph from another cyclist?
would love to see one.
Just for you, a race winning move in the finale of a local classic criterium (267/361W avg/norm). Very tricky uphill finish with cobbles and partly wet surface this year. You can see how incredibly erratic the power output is and how I jump to over 1000W almost instantly.

https://abload.de/img/race_winning_moveiqxwl.jpg
 
Oct 16, 2010
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Thanks MR.38.
Appreciate it.
Looks compelling (a word I shouldn't have used first time round).
 
Oct 16, 2010
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red_flanders said:
sniper said:
While I agree Froome is generally a more suspect rider, at present there is more tangible motorevidence for Sagan (as per the Stade 2 docu) than for Froome.

We already know via Cancellara that having big legs and big power doesn't mean a rider won't use a motor too.
We "know" Cancellara used a motor?

I still have seen no "tangible evidence" of Sagan using a motor in the Stade 2 documentary. Can you link me to the part where they show the motor footage with the thermal cam which they attribute to the 4th place rider? I didn't see where they showed this.
I don't think there is anybody who both (a) has seen all the moto-evidence for cance and (b) thinks he didn't use a motor.

Point taken wrt Sagan. It's not really tangible if we don't actually get to see it. That said, I personally have little reason to doubt the Stade 2 findings, which include a suspicious heat spot on the bike of the guy who finished 4th at Strade B. A heat spot for which a motor is by far the most straightfirward explanation.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I would lean with those that say Sagan is using PEDs and a motor. His power, stamina and ability to dish out incredible performances day in and day out make it a bit less than believable. He is great for the sport - young, approachable, interesting, etc. so I think he has a level of protection from the powers that be. He is a draw for the sport and his antics bring in even the casual cyclists.

I do think he knows how to race a bike, read a race, and play the game. A little extra power at key moments just helps to ensure he makes the move or has enough left for the sprint.
 
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