Sagan Clean?

[Mr.38%]

Bu`llsh`it. Actual weights have been documented here and elsewhere for a long time and rarely does a medium sized bike scratch the legal limit. Professional riders will break too light wheels, just ask former Milram riders about Lightweight. While mere mortals hand them over to their grandchildren after 50,000 mls, the team went through them faster than you can say "Obermayer".

 

[Tienus]

Re:

Bu`llsh`it. Actual weights have been documented here and elsewhere for a long time and rarely does a medium sized bike scratch the legal limit. Professional riders will break too light wheels, just ask former Milram riders about Lightweight. While mere mortals hand them over to their grandchildren after 50,000 mls, the team went through them faster than you can say "Obermayer".

The first word is a nice summary of your post. Can you provide some links for your claims?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMsgzD-JFQs
At a sprint stage where weight is not a factor most aero bikes weight within 500grams of the limit.

Plenty of brands have sub 1kg wheels.
https://cyclingtips.com/2013/08/the-6-8kg-limit/
Wheel-sets are a huge-factor for the overall-weight – but just some specialized brands offer workable sub 1 kilo wheel-sets.

 

[Mr.38%]

I cannot link face to face talks during long training rides with people like Gerdemann, Knees, Ciolek, Roels, Grabsch or Gajek. You can ping Dominik or Linus on Facebook, they are currently snowboarding in Sicily and on Mallorca respectively. Artur is MIA, last seen as doorman several years ago, so I'd be interested what he does as well. You might also want to check with Luke Roberts, he works for SRAM/Zipp these days and will share his experience for sure.

For the rest, google "pro bikes" on site:cyclingnews

 

[Mr.38%]

Sure, you got me, I'm trolling. We have a few sets of white LWs from the Milram clearance sales still going strong on some hobby riders in our training groups here (as well as Focus frames and full bikes). So I'm totally and absolutely trolling and I make all this stuff up. Have fun analyzing Youtube then.

Edit: achilles heel are the rims breaking pinch flatting in potholes - only in my mind, of course.

 

[proffate]

Re:

You buy yours from a shop, Sagan is riding custom frames. His size is probably custom too.

this is all true but I think you have it backwards. Spec et al make the frames they sell to the public as light as possible (because it drives sales). They make the frames they give to pro teams sturdier and therefore heavier. They don't want their frames breaking on live TV and riders probably want to avoid bike changes or sudden post-crash failures while descending at 90kph without having checked for cracks...

Of course I don't work at spec so take this with a grain of salt. But several years back a local masters team got leftover frames that had been made for OPQS and they were substantially heavier than production models.

 

[Tienus]

Re: Re:

You buy yours from a shop, Sagan is riding custom frames. His size is probably custom too.

this is all true but I think you have it backwards. Spec et al make the frames they sell to the public as light as possible (because it drives sales). They make the frames they give to pro teams sturdier and therefore heavier. They don't want their frames breaking on live TV and riders probably want to avoid bike changes or sudden post-crash failures while descending at 90kph without having checked for cracks...

Of course I don't work at spec so take this with a grain of salt. But several years back a local masters team got leftover frames that had been made for OPQS and they were substantially heavier than production models.

Making the frames stronger and stiffer makes perfect sense. Its better than adding fishing weight to the bikes.

The Vias has a realtively heavy frame and some components like the brakes. In the tour he was riding a bare frame and updated brakes from different materials.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/peter-sagans-specialized-venge-vias-gallery/
I dont think his vias should have been much heavier than the minimum weight.

 

[yaco]

Yeah - Never seen a rider exhausted after a race - It's normal for athletes to eat candy/jelly beans or anything with sugar after an event.

 

[fmk_RoI]

What's even worse abut his Haribo doping is he's doing it all the time. Like, really all the time.

 

[sniper]

A good diet, the only way to beat those pesky dopers.

 

[sniper]

And what happened to gatorade?

 

[sniper]

As you begin to catch your breath, go for the banana

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/maximize-your-post-race-recovery

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

As you begin to catch your breath, go for the banana

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/maximize-your-post-race-recovery

How the fecking feck can you trust that source? It doesn't mention doping! FFS, real world, please.

 

[Valv.Piti]

#TheClinicIn17

 

[kingjr]

More than once, I've seen my father do this after a bike ride. I'm very sure it wasn't to mask a PED.

 

[sniper]

Re:

More than once, I've seen my father do this after a bike ride. I'm very sure it wasn't to mask a PED.

Do what?
Did he have a soigneur feeding him kids candies after winning a pro-race?
Plus your father doesn't need to mask PEDs. Sagan does.

Think about all the tricks pros (have) pull(ed) to beat the system.
Sagan using Haribo to mask peds would be SSDD.

 

[kingjr]

Empty a Haribo bag right after coming home from a bike ride.

Well, maybe not empty it right away, but eating lots.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Empty a Haribo bag right after coming home from a bike ride.

Well, maybe not empty it right away, but eating lots.

He's not a millionaire pro though with a millionaire contract and soigneurs and dietists and doctors to take care of his recovery, so of course he's gonna eat junk.

It's just funny how it makes an absolute mockery of the claim (put forward by the likes of Team Sky and a whole shitload of pseudo-sports-scientists) that sports nutrition being the decisive factor at the prolevel.

 

[Scatto]

Ok, admittedly it's a hypothesis and I had never noticed it before (doesn't make the argument invalid), but it certainly is a strange image and there must be a reason other than him being the weirdest thing on a bicycle in the history of the sport. Like when they painted their hair grey or blonde, or when riders shaved their legs but not the in-between.

 

[kingjr]

Re: Re:

Empty a Haribo bag right after coming home from a bike ride.

Well, maybe not empty it right away, but eating lots.

He's not a millionaire pro though with a millionaire contract and soigneurs and dietists and doctors to take care of his recovery, so of course he's gonna eat junk.

He's a doctor himself, as it happens.

I'll just toss this in here

http://stellar.ie/skills/heres-why-haribo-is-one-of-best-foods-you-can-eat-before-and-after-a-workout/32433
http://blog.russhowepti.com/post-workout-haribo-gummy-bears/
http://www.bodybuilding.com/content/the-benefits-of-post-workout-carbohydrates.html

 

[Scatto]

But also:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/01/testosterone-gummies-rocket-cream-a-rods-doping-secrets-revealed/
https://ewwty.com/2012/06/05/how-to-get-away-with-stuff-3-passing-a-urine-drug-test/5/ (this one, what about all the toilet breaks?)
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/how-athletes-strategically-use-caffeine/283758/

Apparently gummy bears can absorb whatever you want and the pectin takes out substances from your urine to your stool.

 

[kingjr]

Re:

But also:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/01/testosterone-gummies-rocket-cream-a-rods-doping-secrets-revealed/
https://ewwty.com/2012/06/05/how-to-get-away-with-stuff-3-passing-a-urine-drug-test/5/ (this one, what about all the toilet breaks?)
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/how-athletes-strategically-use-caffeine/283758/

Apparently gummy bears can absorb whatever you want and the pectin takes out substances from your urine to your stool.

Eh? Where does it say that?

About the pectin, the substance that is referred to here is marijuana.

And I fail to see the relevance of link no. 3, please elaborate.

 

[Tom the Engine]

Re:

But also:

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2014/01/testosterone-gummies-rocket-cream-a-rods-doping-secrets-revealed/
https://ewwty.com/2012/06/05/how-to-get-away-with-stuff-3-passing-a-urine-drug-test/5/ (this one, what about all the toilet breaks?)
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2014/03/how-athletes-strategically-use-caffeine/283758/

Apparently gummy bears can absorb whatever you want and the pectin takes out substances from your urine to your stool.

Please tell me you didn't post a link to a blog from a self-identified "pothead with a laptop" (where he claims that drinking a total of 5 litres of water with gelatin in the 4 hours before a drug test helps you pass a urine test for marijuana) as supporting evidence that gummy bears are abused as masking agents for PEDs during the minutes between finishing the race and doping test..

That's embarassing. Or comical. I'm undecided.

(And the other two links are about a baseball player who allegedely ate "PED-laced lozenges, which he called "gummies"" before games and triathletes discussing normal gels that have consistencies "kind of like gummy bears". Have you even read and understood those articles or have you just quickly inserted the first couple of results of your Google keyword search?
There's no need for scientific rigour in the Clinic, but posting such terribly nonsensical links for others to read is kinda insulting, you're wasting peoples time. Up your game!)

 

[Scatto]

Life is a waste of time, so let's skip the philosophy.

It is a hypothesis based on strange behavior and inspired by what I read in the book of Willy Voet. The Google search results are indeed only verification, and yes, it is always possible to eat gummy bears for the sugar intake or because you like it. The quantity and the manner in which ... still look suspicious.

Of course Haribo won't make masking agents, but if sportsmen use gum for testosterone and caffeine, they might as well use it for masking agents. If you look around you will find that gum takes up spirits like vodka, and it's even water-soluble, so hence why I said it can absorb whatever you want. The idea of using a binding agent may be something to look at too. Sagan is the best rider of the last couple of years, and he eats most gummy bears, so there is a correlation. It does sound silly and it may be non-causal, but every suggestion of doping practices sounds laughable until proven true, so don't judge too soon.

(edited for grammar mistakes)

 

[sniper]

Re:

Life is a waste of time, so let's skip the philosophy.

It is a hypothesis based on strange behavior and inspired by what I read in the book of Willy Voet. The Google search results are indeed only verification, and yes, it is always possible to eat gummy bears for the sugar intake or because you like it. The quantity and the manner in which ... still look suspicious.

Of course Haribo won't make masking agents, but if sportsmen use gum for testosterone and caffeine, and if you look around you will find that gum also takes up spirits like vodka (it's even water-soluble, so no need for alcohol). The possibilities are endless and the idea of using a binding agent may be something to look at too. Sagan is the best rider of the last couple of years, and he eats most gummy bears, so there is a correlation. It does sound silly and it may be non-causal, but Every suggestion of doping practices sounds laughable until proven true, so don't judge too soon.

Good reply to an embarrassing (or comical) post.

It certainly looked weird enough to ask questions about it.
I don't think any selfrespecting topsports nutritionist would recommend Sagan to take two mouths full of gummy bears after the race.
Unless of course gummy bears have some other beneficial side effects besides containing sugar.
Masking of certain peds could be one such benefit.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

it is always possible to eat gummy bears for the sugar intake or because you like it. The quantity and the manner in which ... still look suspicious.

To someone who maybe only noticed something for the very first time on Sunday, but to someone who has seen this and similar things at race finishes since forever? You cited Occam, that requires the fewest assumptions. That results in sugar rush.