Sagan Clean?

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

As you and fmkrol have nicely illustrated, a simple fanta or a coke would make a tadbit more sense.

No, I didn't. A Coke is just as 'bad' as Haribo sweeties, if not worse, when it comes to 'clean' food Puritanism. Ditto that Sub.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Which was the football team chowed down on Pizza's post game? Arsenal? Man Utd? Am I misremembering or was there a cycling team had similar culinary tastes?

Fact is, sports people eat rubbish, just like the rest of us. Only they don't do it all the time.

 

[Valv.Piti]

How many calories do you burn in an average race, 3k-5k? You need a bit of sugar the other way in again.

 

[Eyeballs Out]

I hoped it was a bag of pork scratchings

 

[red_flanders]

#GummiGate

 

[Scatto]

To the poster who kicked this off, two questions:

1) what is being masked? It must be something taken during the race, yes, otherwise the masking could have been done ... well, less publicly?

2) what do you think the masking agent is? Are you suggesting this is like the flake of soap powder in the urine that used to be used to spoil tests? Or are you suggesting that the gummy bears contain some agent that changes the evidence of doping within the body, say turns EPO in, I dunno, sugar? Or are you suggesting it's just the normal diuretic, used down through the ages of anti-doping as a way of reducing the concentration of metabolites of flushing them from the system quicker?

Having tossed this theory out there, you really do need to stand it up, explain the science. And properly explain it, not just chuck up some URLs you found when you Googled a couple of key words in the questions.

I don't know, but those are the right questions.

The gum has this pectine (hence the link to that pothead), requires chewing, allows to spare some behind the teeth, maybe to spike the sample. ... Apparently it is useful to administer caffeine and testosterone, so maybe someone produces special candy to cover up PED taken during the final.

One advantage I can see is that the soigneur only adds the modified gums at the last moment, on top of real candy. Before and after, controls would find just that. Also, it's possible that the laced candy tastes horribly and therefore there is need to take in a huge amount, like Sagan does.

At this point it would be recommended that a chemist or biologist jumps in. I only noticed a pattern that logic can't explain. Sugar intake is not good enough.

 

[Huapango]

Re:

To the poster who kicked this off, two questions:

1) what is being masked? It must be something taken during the race, yes, otherwise the masking could have been done ... well, less publicly?

2) what do you think the masking agent is? Are you suggesting this is like the flake of soap powder in the urine that used to be used to spoil tests? Or are you suggesting that the gummy bears contain some agent that changes the evidence of doping within the body, say turns EPO in, I dunno, sugar? Or are you suggesting it's just the normal diuretic, used down through the ages of anti-doping as a way of reducing the concentration of metabolites of flushing them from the system quicker?

Having tossed this theory out there, you really do need to stand it up, explain the science. And properly explain it, not just chuck up some URLs you found when you Googled a couple of key words in the questions.

I don't know, but those are the right questions.

The gum has this pectine (hence the link to that pothead), requires chewing, allows to spare some behind the teeth, maybe to spike the sample. ... Apparently it is useful to administer caffeine and testosterone, so maybe someone produces special candy to cover up PED taken during the final.

One advantage I can see is that the soigneur only adds the modified gums at the last moment, on top of real candy. Before and after, controls would find just that. Also, it's possible that the laced candy tastes horribly and therefore there is need to take in a huge amount, like Sagan does.

At this point it would be recommended that a chemist or biologist jumps in. I only noticed a pattern that logic can't explain. Sugar intake is not good enough.

Interesting. I thought he was only motor-doping, but I suppose one needs a reliable backup when all the batteries die on all the extra bikes and there are no teammates in the area to switchout with.

 

[Scatto]

Nutritionist Nicolas Paraskevopulos of Bakala Academy says it is nothing but a change of taste after a day with gels. Lame excuse or disappointing truth? Time will tell.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/952/Wielre...an-en-co-gummibeertjes-eten-na-aankomst.dhtml

 

[fmk_RoI]

Lame excuse or disappointing truth? Time will tell.

Oh FFS. Are you auditioning for US tabloid TV now?

 

[sniper]

Nutritionist Nicolas Paraskevopulos of Bakala Academy says it is nothing but a change of taste after a day with gels. Lame excuse or disappointing truth? Time will tell.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/952/Wielre...an-en-co-gummibeertjes-eten-na-aankomst.dhtml

Good link.

To your question,
"they work just as well as expensive recuperation shakes" is clearly a lame excuse. Money is not an issue, so given the choice, you'd always expect a clean millionaire-contract rider and his soigneur to go for the 'expensive recuperation shake' in search of marginal gains.

Also, I thought it was interesting that diëtist Nicolas Paraskevopulos suggesting it's a recent phenomenon.
"candies for recovery are in fashion for some time now. Who invented it, I don't know, but it works."

The rest of that interview is basically Paraskevopulos making a mockery of Asker Jeukendrup's and Jeroen Swart's sports nutrition business.

 

[fmk_RoI]

given the choice, you'd always expect a clean millionaire-contract rider and his soigneur to go for the 'expensive recuperation shake' in search of marginal gains.

That does not logically follow. If the 'expensive recuperation shake' tastes nasty (as many do) and the nasty junk food tastes good and both have the same effect, more people will go with their taste buds than a display of conspicuous consumption.

 

[veganrob]

given the choice, you'd always expect a clean millionaire-contract rider and his soigneur to go for the 'expensive recuperation shake' in search of marginal gains.

That does not logically follow. If the 'expensive recuperation shake' tastes nasty (as many do) and the nasty junk food tastes good and both have the same effect, more people will go with their taste buds than a display of conspicuous consumption.

Except that Bora-Hansgrohe has a sponsor in High5 sports Nutrition. I would think that they would want to see one of their drinks in Sagan's hand after a race and not a bunch of gummy worms.

 

[sniper]

given the choice, you'd always expect a clean millionaire-contract rider and his soigneur to go for the 'expensive recuperation shake' in search of marginal gains.

That does not logically follow. If the 'expensive recuperation shake' tastes nasty (as many do) and the nasty junk food tastes good and both have the same effect, more people will go with their taste buds than a display of conspicuous consumption.

Except that Bora-Hansgrohe has a sponsor in High5 sports Nutrition. I would think that they would want to see one of their drinks in Sagan's hand after a race and not a bunch of gummy worms.

 

[kingjr]

given the choice, you'd always expect a clean millionaire-contract rider and his soigneur to go for the 'expensive recuperation shake' in search of marginal gains.

That does not logically follow. If the 'expensive recuperation shake' tastes nasty (as many do) and the nasty junk food tastes good and both have the same effect, more people will go with their taste buds than a display of conspicuous consumption.

Except that Bora-Hansgrohe has a sponsor in High5 sports Nutrition. I would think that they would want to see one of their drinks in Sagan's hand after a race and not a bunch of gummy worms.

What do you think they're gonna do about it?

 

[carton]

Bora-Hansgrohe, in particular, is sponsored by High5 (sports nutrition), Sunroot (health food -including gels and the like- his wife's family's company, where he is a spokesperson and where she works), Proviant (fruit juices) and even an espresso maker and an alcohol-free beer (actually not a bad recovery drink). So he has quite a dazzling array of sponsor products to chose from, any of which would have love to have provided him with anything could have wanted from their wares. That he sent someone out for Haribos and them gulfed them down during the post-race interview is just a massive display of NFG. But then again this is Peter Sagan we're discussing.

But yeah, wanton doses of junk food have fueled cyclists for as long as there have been bikes. The current year mileage record apparently was set on a lot of McDonalds. You can find literally hundreds of pictures of Grand Tour stage winners, many of them sponsored by other drinks companies, downing a store bought soda at the finish line. Not quite a clinic-worthy issue, IMHO.

 

[Sorped]

If I'm proved wrong down the line so be it, but for now - get a *** grip.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Reckon Sniper and his cohorts should hire someone with an infra-red camera or similar to take pics of rider's feed bags and bidons - You never know what you'll find !

yes let's do that. But not before we check the background of every CAS jury member for any kind of conflict of interest that could cloud their judgement and cause them to conspire against clean athletes. :lol:

I want the whole anti-doping system to be cleaned up from top to bottom - Not interested in sound bites or picture grabs.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

...Not interested in sound bites or picture grabs.

...which is just a tadbit inconsistent with you chiming in here with a shabby attempt to make it about the poster. But apart from that fair enough.

I want the whole anti-doping system to be cleaned up from top to bottom -

join the club.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Except that Bora-Hansgrohe has a sponsor in High5 sports Nutrition. I would think that they would want to see one of their drinks in Sagan's hand after a race and not a bunch of gummy worms.

But we all know it doesn't always work like that, hence taped over logos on kit etc.

 

[sniper]

Except that Bora-Hansgrohe has a sponsor in High5 sports Nutrition. I would think that they would want to see one of their drinks in Sagan's hand after a race and not a bunch of gummy worms.

But we all know it doesn't always work like that, hence taped over logos on kit etc.

And why do you think that is so? Indeed.
Because winning and not getting popped are a tadbit more important than trivial sponsor obligations.

 

[fmk_RoI]

And why do you think that is so?

Because people are people and not the machines you want to treat them as. Some like a particular shoe, a particular saddle, a particular food.

 

[sniper]

And why do you think that is so?

Because people are people and not the machines you want to treat them as. Some like a particular shoe, a particular saddle, a particular food.

Agreed. And some like to dodge tests.

 

[Benotti69]

And why do you think that is so?

Because people are people and not the machines you want to treat them as. Some like a particular shoe, a particular saddle, a particular food.

some a particular PED........

 

[red_flanders]

Nutritionist Nicolas Paraskevopulos of Bakala Academy says it is nothing but a change of taste after a day with gels. Lame excuse or disappointing truth? Time will tell.

http://www.hln.be/hln/nl/952/Wielre...an-en-co-gummibeertjes-eten-na-aankomst.dhtml

Good link.

To your question,
"they work just as well as expensive recuperation shakes" is clearly a lame excuse.

It's not clear to me at all. I looked and could find no studies which supported a claim either way, though certainly that information could be out there. I mean yeah, I'd like to think that products specifically aimed at aiding recovery worked better, but I'd also be wary that they are pure marketing nonsense, and clearly replacing glycogen is somewhere at the heart of the recovery question. Sure, who cares that recovery drinks cost a tiny bit more. No team cares about the 1 Euro savings, but that really isn't the central point. I have personal experience with candy-based recovery that tells me sugar works darned well. A total bonk out in the back roads of France, not a sports nutrition outlet to be found, and 4 snickers bars later I finished out the last 45 miles of a 110 mile day. I love gummies. Would rather eat them than a gel any day. Only advantage of a gel is that it's easier to carry and consume while on the bike. After? Who cares.

It's also not clear why it's an "excuse" because it's not been made clear how gummies specifically could be breaking or aiding in breaking the rules. Some have speculated that the gelatin masks or clears doping agents, but I think this was related to cannabis and it's far from clear they could have an immediate effect. I tend to doubt one could eat a bunch of gummies and instantly have all the cannabis clear from one's system, before a doping control, or that cannabis is the drug at issue.

If one is going to make a case that these are suspicious, maybe at least...make a case. So far I don't see anything.

 

[PeterB]

Actually, seeing Haribos reminded me something and now I finally found what it was: https://cyclingtips.com/2014/05/lotto-belisol-team-bus-tour-with-adam-hansen/
I'm sure I saw them also at least in one other team bus video but don't have time to search for it now. What a job to be supplied with candies at work!