Sagan Clean?

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re: Re:

You'd guess wrong then. Doping is prevalent in the U23 categories as well. And no, he wasn't required to dope, he made that decision himself. His results mean nothing as he wouldn't have won a fraction of the races he won as a pro if he was clean. Kelme was one of the most disgusting teams to ever exist, using domestiques as guinny pigs nearly killing at least one of them. If hell exists Valverde will burn for his sins, along with all the others who were responsible in maintaining that doping culture + omerta.

That will include Contador, Nibali, Gilbert and Boonen for example...

Here we were thinking hell was for the unbelievers; turns out it's filled to the brim with professional sporters.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

You'd guess wrong then. Doping is prevalent in the U23 categories as well. And no, he wasn't required to dope, he made that decision himself. His results mean nothing as he wouldn't have won a fraction of the races he won as a pro if he was clean. Kelme was one of the most disgusting teams to ever exist, using domestiques as guinny pigs nearly killing at least one of them. If hell exists Valverde will burn for his sins, along with all the others who were responsible in maintaining that doping culture + omerta.

That will include Contador, Nibali, Gilbert and Boonen for example...

they didn't almost kill their team-mates with disgusting experiments. Also where's your proof against some of the mentioned names? Yet you claim Valverde is clean LOL. You're delusional.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

You'd guess wrong then. Doping is prevalent in the U23 categories as well. And no, he wasn't required to dope, he made that decision himself. His results mean nothing as he wouldn't have won a fraction of the races he won as a pro if he was clean. Kelme was one of the most disgusting teams to ever exist, using domestiques as guinny pigs nearly killing at least one of them. If hell exists Valverde will burn for his sins, along with all the others who were responsible in maintaining that doping culture + omerta.

That will include Contador, Nibali, Gilbert and Boonen for example...

they didn't almost kill their team-mates with disgusting experiments. Also where's your proof against some of the mentioned names? Yet you claim Valverde is clean LOL. You're delusional.

Nor did Valverde.
I don't need proofs, I'm not a prosecutor. Common sense leads to that "proofs". Nibali worked and is still working with Il dottore Michelle Ferrari. Gilbert rediscovered his 2009-2011 form when reunited with Ibarguren. And do you really think Boonen was only on cocaine?
And I'm not claiming Valverde is clean.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re: Re:

You'd guess wrong then. Doping is prevalent in the U23 categories as well. And no, he wasn't required to dope, he made that decision himself. His results mean nothing as he wouldn't have won a fraction of the races he won as a pro if he was clean. Kelme was one of the most disgusting teams to ever exist, using domestiques as guinny pigs nearly killing at least one of them. If hell exists Valverde will burn for his sins, along with all the others who were responsible in maintaining that doping culture + omerta.

That will include Contador, Nibali, Gilbert and Boonen for example...

they didn't almost kill their team-mates with disgusting experiments. Also where's your proof against some of the mentioned names? Yet you claim Valverde is clean LOL. You're delusional.

Nor did Valverde.
I don't need proofs, I'm not a prosecutor. Common sense leads to that "proofs". Nibali worked and is still working with Il dottore Michelle Ferrari. Gilbert rediscovered his 2009-2011 form when reunited with Ibarguren. And do you really think Boonen was only on cocaine?
And I'm not claiming Valverde is clean.

and now Nibali is still working with Ferarri lmao? Even if he's doping nobody would be that stupid to still work with him as just being seen with him can get you banned these days. As I said, you're completely delusional and in denial. Valverde was one of the leaders at Kelme, he's guilty and the fact you still suck up to him makes you deplorable.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Hold up a second, sunshine. You seem to be confused as to the location of the Valverde thread, as lately you've just coming in swinging at him in a number of threads in the hope that you've found the right one. But this is the Sagan thread. This is my turf. I'm the one that runs the vendetta round here, kiddo. Don't make me dust off my Rock impressions again.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Hold up a second, sunshine. You seem to be confused as to the location of the Valverde thread, as lately you've just coming in swinging at him in a number of threads in the hope that you've found the right one. But this is the Sagan thread. This is my turf. I'm the one that runs the vendetta round here, kiddo. Don't make me dust off my Rock impressions again.

Obviously he hates Valverde and wants to make that clear apparently in all threads.

 

[Jspear]

Re: Re:

Hold up a second, sunshine. You seem to be confused as to the location of the Valverde thread, as lately you've just coming in swinging at him in a number of threads in the hope that you've found the right one. But this is the Sagan thread. This is my turf. I'm the one that runs the vendetta round here, kiddo. Don't make me dust off my Rock impressions again.

Obviously he hates Valverde and wants to make that clear apparently in all threads.

Yes and others love Valverde and want to make that clear in apparently all the threads. It evens its self out I'd say.

That said. Nope he's dirty.

 

[El Pistolero]

Re:

Hold up a second, sunshine. You seem to be confused as to the location of the Valverde thread, as lately you've just coming in swinging at him in a number of threads in the hope that you've found the right one. But this is the Sagan thread. This is my turf. I'm the one that runs the vendetta round here, kiddo. Don't make me dust off my Rock impressions again.

I wasn't the one that brought Valverde into this discussion. It's other people that keep bringing him up in unrelated threads, so I retaliate. I agree it's annoying, but when someone uses Valverde as an example of clean cycling I just have to respond.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

But in this thread Valverde was introduced as the counter-example to the idea that those who are good all year round are less suspicious than those who super-peak, and that line of conversation ended back in November.

This is one of the few threads on the board where a counter-opinion on Peter Sagan is allowed by his minions, therefore we shouldn't be wasting this opportunity by getting sidetracked.

 

[Bardamu]

Re: Re:

You'd guess wrong then. Doping is prevalent in the U23 categories as well. And no, he wasn't required to dope, he made that decision himself. His results mean nothing as he wouldn't have won a fraction of the races he won as a pro if he was clean. Kelme was one of the most disgusting teams to ever exist, using domestiques as guinny pigs nearly killing at least one of them. If hell exists Valverde will burn for his sins, along with all the others who were responsible in maintaining that doping culture + omerta.

That will include Contador, Nibali, Gilbert and Boonen for example...

they didn't almost kill their team-mates with disgusting experiments. Also where's your proof against some of the mentioned names? Yet you claim Valverde is clean LOL. You're delusional.

Nor did Valverde.
I don't need proofs, I'm not a prosecutor. Common sense leads to that "proofs". Nibali worked and is still working with Il dottore Michelle Ferrari. Gilbert rediscovered his 2009-2011 form when reunited with Ibarguren. And do you really think Boonen was only on cocaine?
And I'm not claiming Valverde is clean.

Valverde riding for a dirty team is way more suspicious than Boonen having one of the biggest dopers of the quintessential doping era as a personal mentor, didn't you know?

 

[saganftw]

Re:

But in this thread Valverde was introduced as the counter-example to the idea that those who are good all year round are less suspicious than those who super-peak, and that line of conversation ended back in November.

This is one of the few threads on the board where a counter-opinion on Peter Sagan is allowed by his minions, therefore we shouldn't be wasting this opportunity by getting sidetracked.

ignorant and condescending :lol:

no wonder this thread isnt going anywhere

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

But in this thread Valverde was introduced as the counter-example to the idea that those who are good all year round are less suspicious than those who super-peak, and that line of conversation ended back in November.

This is one of the few threads on the board where a counter-opinion on Peter Sagan is allowed by his minions, therefore we shouldn't be wasting this opportunity by getting sidetracked.

ignorant and condescending :lol:

no wonder this thread isnt going anywhere

I thought the tone of the first post made it pretty self-evident that, whether or not anybody found it amusing, I was gently joshing Pisti with some self-aware humour mainly at the expense of my own bias, but clearly I overestimated.

But since Sagan's brand of humour is more along the Dude, Where's My Car? lines, perhaps that shouldn't surprise me.

 

[Netserk]

Dude, you forgot to plaster your post with emojis. Impossible to get a correct read on it then.

 

[Brullnux]

Re: Re:

But in this thread Valverde was introduced as the counter-example to the idea that those who are good all year round are less suspicious than those who super-peak, and that line of conversation ended back in November.

This is one of the few threads on the board where a counter-opinion on Peter Sagan is allowed by his minions, therefore we shouldn't be wasting this opportunity by getting sidetracked.

ignorant and condescending :lol:

no wonder this thread isnt going anywhere

I thought the tone of the first post made it pretty self-evident that, whether or not anybody found it amusing, I was gently joshing Pisti with some self-aware humour mainly at the expense of my own bias, but clearly I overestimated.

But since Sagan's brand of humour is more along the Dude, Where's My Car? lines, perhaps that shouldn't surprise me.

That film is misunderstood. It's a very clever exploration of hedonism and epistomology, I won't hear a word against it.

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

But in this thread Valverde was introduced as the counter-example to the idea that those who are good all year round are less suspicious than those who super-peak, and that line of conversation ended back in November.

This is one of the few threads on the board where a counter-opinion on Peter Sagan is allowed by his minions, therefore we shouldn't be wasting this opportunity by getting sidetracked.

ignorant and condescending :lol:

no wonder this thread isnt going anywhere

Thank you for saying this. LS, I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts as you have a depth of knowledge rivalled by few others. Please don’t sink to the level of the trolls.

 

[red_flanders]

Weird, I keep clicking on this thread to read about Sagan. Maybe next week.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

Re:

Weird, I keep clicking on this thread to read about Sagan. Maybe next week.

This year he was arguably the worst he's been since Tinkoff criticised him after the spring of 2015. Let's wait until he wins the Amstel on sunday, then we'll have something new to talk about.

 

[Durden93]

Re: Re:

Weird, I keep clicking on this thread to read about Sagan. Maybe next week.

This year he was arguably the worst he's been since Tinkoff criticised him after the spring of 2015. Let's wait until he wins the Amstel on sunday, then we'll have something new to talk about.

Have we been watching the same races? Won GW and Roubaix fairly convincely. He wasn’t quite his top form in still Flanders but still looked better than most aside from Terpstra.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Thank you for saying this. LS, I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts as you have a depth of knowledge rivalled by few others. Please don’t sink to the level of the trolls.

You mean like those many Sagan fans who set on all posts critical of their man like a Froome fan wandering unaware into the Clinic, until posters simply don't bother, and silence all negative opinions and who were attacking and mocking me in conversations about him that I hadn't even participated in? Maybe it's got better now and it's possible to hold a critical opinion without it being made to feel unwelcome (I've noticed the treatment of many posters whose positions were much less vitriolic than mine, before you ask), but since Sagan and the furore that surrounds him have become a huge dent in my enjoyment of the sport, I simply don't watch any race he's in and avoid the discussions at least on race days when emotions are riding high, to try to stop getting into arguments like I used to.

This thread is one of the few where a discourse which can be both supportive of, and critical of, Peter Sagan has been able to flourish, for better or for worse (and given some of the ridiculous stuff like the Gummi Bears, often for worse admittedly), and I thought self-deprecating humour was a good-natured way to steer the conversation back towards its intended subject without either personally attacking Pisti or Sagan himself. Unfortunately for me, it fell flat.

 

[GuyIncognito]

LS mate, if the Sagan love here gets your pulse up this much, you'd go on a killing spree on a few other cycling forums.

I can't be sure of the exact words but over on reddit/peloton someone said something along the lines of....if Sagan stabbed a baby everyone there would applaud and claim the baby had it coming, or somesuch. It was an accurate description. The Sagan love over here may be over the top biased, but it's tame in comparison to other places

 

[pastronef]

just compare the people pissed off at Froome for the illegal feed on Alpe Huez 2013 vs the almost unnoticed Sagan´s illegal feed in the Roubaix last kms

 

[Parker]

Re:

LS mate, if the Sagan love here gets your pulse up this much, you'd go on a killing spree on a few other cycling forums.

I can't be sure of the exact words but over on reddit/peloton someone said something along the lines of....if Sagan stabbed a baby everyone there would applaud and claim the baby had it coming, or somesuch. It was an accurate description. The Sagan love over here may be over the top biased, but it's tame in comparison to other places

There's plenty of it in the proper media as well. He could inject himself with EPO in a press conference and half the journalists would rave about his needle technique.

 

[Jancouver]

Re: Re:

Thank you for saying this. LS, I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts as you have a depth of knowledge rivalled by few others. Please don’t sink to the level of the trolls.

You mean like those many Sagan fans who set on all posts critical of their man like a Froome fan wandering unaware into the Clinic, until posters simply don't bother, and silence all negative opinions and who were attacking and mocking me in conversations about him that I hadn't even participated in? Maybe it's got better now and it's possible to hold a critical opinion without it being made to feel unwelcome (I've noticed the treatment of many posters whose positions were much less vitriolic than mine, before you ask), but since Sagan and the furore that surrounds him have become a huge dent in my enjoyment of the sport, I simply don't watch any race he's in and avoid the discussions at least on race days when emotions are riding high, to try to stop getting into arguments like I used to.

This thread is one of the few where a discourse which can be both supportive of, and critical of, Peter Sagan has been able to flourish, for better or for worse (and given some of the ridiculous stuff like the Gummi Bears, often for worse admittedly), and I thought self-deprecating humour was a good-natured way to steer the conversation back towards its intended subject without either personally attacking Pisti or Sagan himself. Unfortunately for me, it fell flat.

It's funny how you are trying to ignore all the positive that Sagan has done for the sport and still view him as some rapist who committed the biggest sin when he pinched the podium girl.

Actually, it is not funny, it is sad that some real cycling fans could be so stubborn.

... and I don't believe it one bit that you do not watch any race with Sagan because, like most of us around here, you love cycling more than you are willing to admit.

 

[Koronin]

The Sagan fans here don't seem to be as bad (in not accept that he can make mistakes) as many on other pages are. Many here do seem to know he can and has made mistakes.

As for the pinching mistake, I wouldn't be surprised if that has become a visible example/reason why some of the races that have chosen to eliminate podium girls have done so.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Yet again, that old game, characterize it as if that incident is the only possible reason to dislike Sagan, because it makes it easier to dismiss criticism as unwarranted, despite the fact that I - and plenty of others - have enumerated various patterns of behaviour and attitude that I have explained would make me despise him regardless of that incident. And you post it directly underneath at least two posts which humorously mock the extent of the sycophancy among the fans and the media, which in and of itself is a further turn-off for me. You can see my various posts about people like Petter Northug as proof that the dislike of Sagan is not a one-off grudge but part of a pattern in who I like and dislike.

But of course, it can't be that, or it would actually justify not liking Sagan without the opportunity to dismiss the opinion as invalid. Therefore, we've got to characterize it differently, it's better to dismiss it just me not letting a sleeping dog lie of a one-off incident (that wasn't a one-off incident) several years ago. Gotta protect Brand Sagan. And if I don't correct the intentional misrepresentation, then it becomes accepted, and if I do, conversation becomes circular, everyone has their little session of telling me how wrong they think I am, and then we wonder why we go over this over and over again.

As for the great positives he's done for the sport, you mean like giving Oleg Tinkoff more of a platform and increasing the audience share among the MTV reality show viewing demographic? I'd say help me out here, but then conversation won't move on. Like I said, I came into this thread with a gentle joke with Pisti at my own expense, somebody took exception to one word, and now we're back to Sagan fans shutting down criticism and me rising to bait again.

I've corrected your deliberate mischaracterisation, but we know both of our positions are entrenched and further discussion will only get us bogged down. So let's call it quits before it gets to that point, capiche?