Sagan Clean?

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Wiggo's Package said:
Nomad said:
I wonder if Sagan were to slim down and focus his training on climbing could he win a GT? I saw him climb Mt. Baldy at the TOC a few years back where he looked phenomenal finishing 6th just 47 secs back of the winner JA. I know this an era of cycling now where big guys can't climb anymore and the "skin & bones" or diminutive body type is the preferred build for GT contenders. That being said though, I never thought a bigger rider like Dumoulin would ever win a GT.
Yes indeedy

When he joins Team Sky

Age 32

Jeroen Swart has the "he just lost the fat" paper ready to go (auto-replace "Froome" with "Sagan")

;)
:D well done
 
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Kokoso said:
GuyIncognito said:
The Sagan love over here may be over the top biased, but it's tame in comparison to other places
I bet worst situation is probably on Slovakian and then Czech forums and discussions (quite a few Slovakians are visiting Czech discussions but it doesn't happen other way round for some reason). There if you dare to say something what isn't exactly complimenting Sagan, you are done. Of course it's worst when you say something true about him what fanboys realize is true; then they are pretty mean. Mostly by Slovaks but some Czechs too. You can't say uncomplimenting truth about their idol.
Some Slovaks nicknamed him God. :D
Replace Sagan W/Nibali/Froome or Wonderboys names, and that's spot on.
 
0% chance he's clean but we could be looking at the premier cyclist of our generation.

In the case he's busted I hope he takes his medicine and takes the 6-9 month suspension instead of dragging the case through the mud for months to years.

That and I hope he goes easy on the motors. It's comical the first couple of times but it gets old fast.
 
i would say he's def in a "protected tier" so unless there's is some leak, his wins will stick. also he's generally liked and he's not being a *** to people (yet) so chances of some "inside whistler" are slimmer...
 
Jul 1, 2017
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On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
 
Apr 22, 2012
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ctaylor said:
On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
that correlates well with Sagan whole light years from best climbers ability.

So no, he doesn't look any more or less human.
 
Feb 10, 2010
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ctaylor said:
On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
Right. I'd argue he's clean-ish given how consistently he rides. Unlike a Froome, he was a prodigious talent.
 
Apr 22, 2012
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DirtyWorks said:
ctaylor said:
On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
Right. I'd argue he's clean-ish given how consistently he rides. Unlike a Froome, he was a prodigious talent.
There is basically no way to compare so called talent. So argumenting with talent doesn't make a sense.
 
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DirtyWorks said:
ctaylor said:
On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
Right. I'd argue he's clean-ish given how consistently he rides. Unlike a Froome, he was a prodigious talent.
It's a shame Pistolero is banned because now actually would be a good time to bring up Valverde.

Now, given your contrasting Sagan as somebody who has always had the level and consistently so vs. somebody like Froome, who is far less elegant on a bike, has deficiencies in a number of skills and so forth, I actually agree with you to some extent, but that doesn't necessarily make Sagan any cleaner per se, just that were the péloton to be completely paniagua as of tomorrow, we could expect Sagan to continue to be one of the top performers. After all, Valverde was one of the most ridiculously talented kids Spain ever produced. Not just at espoir level (which was actually his weakest time results-wise), not just at junior level, but back to cadets and back to when he was 11 years old when he went on his ridiculous winning streak that led to the "El Imbatido" nickname. Alejandro Valverde is just about the first guy you should be able to point to and say, "that guy always had the talent to be one of the best". But he's also a well-known doper and nobody in their right mind would say that his consistent excellence into his late 30s is a sign of cleanliness. Somewhere along the line he started doping and seemingly never stopped, but we can't pinpoint exactly where, because he kept on getting results.

Sagan, like Valverde, has consistently been a top results-getter from very early on. How clean that makes him is a total crapshoot. All we can say with any certainty is that on the Cipollini scale, he's more like Basso than di Luca.
 
Jun 27, 2013
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Basso being that guy that even Aldo Sassi said didn't have the natural talent of others.
It's always a crapshoot with everyone, we can't know
 
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Libertine Seguros said:
DirtyWorks said:
ctaylor said:
On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
Right. I'd argue he's clean-ish given how consistently he rides. Unlike a Froome, he was a prodigious talent.
It's a shame Pistolero is banned because now actually would be a good time to bring up Valverde.

Now, given your contrasting Sagan as somebody who has always had the level and consistently so vs. somebody like Froome, who is far less elegant on a bike, has deficiencies in a number of skills and so forth, I actually agree with you to some extent, but that doesn't necessarily make Sagan any cleaner per se, just that were the péloton to be completely paniagua as of tomorrow, we could expect Sagan to continue to be one of the top performers. After all, Valverde was one of the most ridiculously talented kids Spain ever produced. Not just at espoir level (which was actually his weakest time results-wise), not just at junior level, but back to cadets and back to when he was 11 years old when he went on his ridiculous winning streak that led to the "El Imbatido" nickname. Alejandro Valverde is just about the first guy you should be able to point to and say, "that guy always had the talent to be one of the best". But he's also a well-known doper and nobody in their right mind would say that his consistent excellence into his late 30s is a sign of cleanliness. Somewhere along the line he started doping and seemingly never stopped, but we can't pinpoint exactly where, because he kept on getting results.

Sagan, like Valverde, has consistently been a top results-getter from very early on. How clean that makes him is a total crapshoot. All we can say with any certainty is that on the Cipollini scale, he's more like Basso than di Luca.

Wow, a Valverde/Sagan comparison that actually makes a lot of sense. Actually it is a good comparison. It's riders like both Valverde and Sagan that have always been good and continue to be good won't raise suspicion like a rider who was never good and then becomes great overnight.
 
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GuyIncognito said:
Basso being that guy that even Aldo Sassi said didn't have the natural talent of others.
It's always a crapshoot with everyone, we can't know
Please tell me more. I got into cycling when he had just changed team to CSC, so I got to know him a lot around that period of time because the media in Denmark loved him. Don't really know that much before he joined up with Riis
 
Jul 6, 2016
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Libertine Seguros said:
DirtyWorks said:
ctaylor said:
On the bright side, at least he looks like an athletic human, rather than a Salbutamol powered stick man!
Right. I'd argue he's clean-ish given how consistently he rides. Unlike a Froome, he was a prodigious talent.
It's a shame Pistolero is banned because now actually would be a good time to bring up Valverde.

Now, given your contrasting Sagan as somebody who has always had the level and consistently so vs. somebody like Froome, who is far less elegant on a bike, has deficiencies in a number of skills and so forth, I actually agree with you to some extent, but that doesn't necessarily make Sagan any cleaner per se, just that were the péloton to be completely paniagua as of tomorrow, we could expect Sagan to continue to be one of the top performers. After all, Valverde was one of the most ridiculously talented kids Spain ever produced. Not just at espoir level (which was actually his weakest time results-wise), not just at junior level, but back to cadets and back to when he was 11 years old when he went on his ridiculous winning streak that led to the "El Imbatido" nickname. Alejandro Valverde is just about the first guy you should be able to point to and say, "that guy always had the talent to be one of the best". But he's also a well-known doper and nobody in their right mind would say that his consistent excellence into his late 30s is a sign of cleanliness. Somewhere along the line he started doping and seemingly never stopped, but we can't pinpoint exactly where, because he kept on getting results.

Sagan, like Valverde, has consistently been a top results-getter from very early on. How clean that makes him is a total crapshoot. All we can say with any certainty is that on the Cipollini scale, he's more like Basso than di Luca.
There are always exceptions.

Doping techniques vary. A rider will change techniques over time, and sometimes be forced to change them due to losing a doc or a new test showing up. This can cause serious performance fluctuations for athletes who are big dope users and big dope responders. What are the odds that Valverde has been on a top notch functioning doping programme every year for the last 15-20 years? There has to be a sublime talent level filling in the gaps in dope efficacy at times, in my opinion. (Not saying this to defend Valverde in some strange way.. he's just the example used for the topic)
 
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Valv.Piti said:
GuyIncognito said:
Basso being that guy that even Aldo Sassi said didn't have the natural talent of others.
It's always a crapshoot with everyone, we can't know
Please tell me more. I got into cycling when he had just changed team to CSC, so I got to know him a lot around that period of time because the media in Denmark loved him. Don't really know that much before he joined up with Riis
Haha, no talent whatsoever..Already at the Fassa Bortolo, before CSC, challenging/ripping top dogs like Vinokourov, Beloki, Jaja, Millar and taking white jersey at the TdF :cool:
 
Jul 21, 2010
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All the comments in the Clinic about Thomas and Dumoulin, but Sagan has been totally ridiculous this Tour.
 
Jul 4, 2017
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Which part is ridiculous? Finishing more than two minutes behind his team on the 35 km TTT or a very tight sprint victory over Kristoff?
 
King Boonen said:
akrogirl said:
All the comments in the Clinic about Thomas and Dumoulin, but Sagan has been totally ridiculous this Tour.
I think the issue is that Sagan doesn’t have a large number of people defending him so conversations are not perpetuated.
Yeah, Sagan is a pretty clear open and shut case. A massive talent who is taking what is necessary to realize his talent in the pro peloton.
 
Jul 21, 2010
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Aimar16 said:
Which part is ridiculous? Finishing more than two minutes behind his team on the 35 km TTT or a very tight sprint victory over Kristoff?
As we were watching the team time trial, I told my husband that I thought Sagan was tanking it so that he had a better chance of winning the the sprint the following day.
 
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