Salzwedel

[blackcat]

this is one dodgy guy.

Does anyone find it suspicious that in 2008 Denmark rode Cervelo
when Heiko was at the helm, and in 2012 Russia rode Cervelo and
now GB is on Cervelo! Are motors easier to hide in a Cervelo??

nah, just like Daamstard. Daamsgaard gets bikes free from Vroomen, Heiko gets the free bike from CSc, no, Cervelo I mean.

but I ferkin luv the conspiracy, I wish I had come up with it and could take credit. Cos they kicked me out of college because I was plagiarising

#Poe'sLaw

 

[sniper]

this is one dodgy guy.

Does anyone find it suspicious that in 2008 Denmark rode Cervelo
when Heiko was at the helm, and in 2012 Russia rode Cervelo and
now GB is on Cervelo! Are motors easier to hide in a Cervelo??

So it is about the bike after all.

 

[blackcat]

touche

but what if the bike is not a bike. some like April Macy turned him down for a ride

 

[fmk_RoI]

A question that came up when I reviewed the Cadel Evans hagiography, Close to Flying. Maybe someone can answer it:

Or what of his [Evans's] early years, at the Australian Institute of Sport? There he was under the tutelage of Heiko Salzwedel. Salzwedel was a former DDR coach, lured to Australia after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Anybody connected with the former DDR is considered toxic. It may be unfair to individuals, but the depth and breadth of the East German doping system mean that that's the way it is. So I was hoping that Close To Flying might help to detox Salzwedel for me. Instead, it leaves even more questions. Arnold alludes to a story behind Salzwedel's departure from the AIS, at the end of 1997, but chooses not to tell it. All he offers is this tantalising comment:

"[Salzwedel's] impact in the sport in Australia should never be underestimated. He, too, has his critics and the politics at the time of his departure were scandalous at worst, unnecessary at best."

 

[sniper]

Re:

A question that came up when I reviewed the Cadel Evans hagiography, Close to Flying. Maybe someone can answer it:

Or what of his [Evans's] early years, at the Australian Institute of Sport? There he was under the tutelage of Heiko Salzwedel. Salzwedel was a former DDR coach, lured to Australia after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Anybody connected with the former DDR is considered toxic. It may be unfair to individuals, but the depth and breadth of the East German doping system mean that that's the way it is. So I was hoping that Close To Flying might help to detox Salzwedel for me. Instead, it leaves even more questions. Arnold alludes to a story behind Salzwedel's departure from the AIS, at the end of 1997, but chooses not to tell it. All he offers is this tantalising comment:

"[Salzwedel's] impact in the sport in Australia should never be underestimated. He, too, has his critics and the politics at the time of his departure were scandalous at worst, unnecessary at best."

no answer to that, but there's this one-paged thread:
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19949
when you scroll down a bit there's a rather salient post by a poster called GotDropped who seems to have ridden for/under Walsh and Salzwedel.

I rode with Jay on the national team in 97. He was awesome. Better than anyone. In that era, if he couldn't make it drug free, unless you were a real freak, no-one could. I also experienced the injections that you weren't allowed to ask what they were. After a while I chose not to take them and said no. I went from winning races in europe to not being able to finish. That's the diference it makes. I waited 13 years and kept it to myself. A coward? Yes. But I had nothing to gain by telling my story. I've moved on. It's not my problem anymore. After the reasoned decision I contacted ASADA and told them everything I knew. There must be some very nervous people out there. People who have made careers out of their success as doped athletes. Current pros, coaches, directors. I decided to tell my story, because this must stop. Jays story is like many hundreds more. Doping ruined his career, and it ruined mine.

Would be nice if GotDropped could chime in again.

edit: and good review btw. as always.

 

[bobbins]

Sweet was a really good bike rider, I remember him giving the pros a hard time on more than one occasion. Learning now that most of the pros were lit up like christmas trees only goes to show how good he could have been.

People always forget that it's guys like Jay who missed out due to doping. Seeing the Dave Millar chamois sniffing weekends and the Michael Barry training seminars must really p1ss them off.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Talking of Dave Millar, nice little get-together in South Africa, August 2012:

www.thehubsa.co.za/forum/topic/119047-mind-body-bike-ride-harder-race-faster-finish-stronger/

invited speakers:

Robbie McEwen
Top Professional Cyclist and author of “One Way Road”

David Millar
Stage Winner 2012 Tour de France and Author of “Racing Through the Dark”,

Pat McQuaid
President of the UCI

Phil Liggett
“The Voice of Cycling”

Heiko Salzwedel
Coach Extraordinaire, and coach to Robbie McEwen and Cadel Evans

Mario Zorzoli
Scientific Advisor to UCI

Yikes.
Would have loved to be there. It took place post-USADA, but the program was doubtlessly put together pre-USADA.


Something else: what about Salzwedel's former AIS buddy Brian Stephens joining BC in 2014?

While details of his new role are unknown, Stephens will reunite with renowned track coach Heiko Salzwedel after the pair worked together with an Australian Institute of Sport team in the 1990s.

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/brian-stephens-poised-to-join-cycling-australias-arch-rival-great-britain-two-years-out-from-rio-olympics/news-story/86df9613fdb691a6f0cd62f873b899dc?sv=de86e2df68ff9e21a37af1635f0f6a1


Also found this from cyclingtips:

Those who don’t put in the effort simply don’t make it. I know many riders from the Charlie Walsh and Heiko Salzwedel era where East German training regimes were adopted for the AIS. Yes they were tough, but they may have unnecessarily broke a lot of talented riders. The talent ID programs that the AIS now have in place can identify the physical and character traits of what will make a successful cyclists without needing to smash them down and see who’s left standing. cyclingtips.com.au/2012/02/the-generation-of-storytellers/

On a side, riders like Matt White and Jens Voigt are former Walsh/Salzwedel disciples.
White and Stephens were together again at Greenedge before Stephens joined BC.
All cleans of course.

 

[bobbins]

Yeah, Voight order for the AIS pro team. How that guy has any credibility is beyond me, he's more teflon coated than Stevo.

 

[Ferminal]

I used to think it was a sure thing he was dodgy but his RusVelo times actually made me change my view, e.g:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15013/Salzwedel-disappointed-and-sad-by-four-RusVelo-positives-this-year.aspx

Yes his background speaks for itself and no doubt doping has been pretty rampant everywhere he has been, but he doesn't seem like the central character. He may just be a very good coach that is agnostic about preparation, whether that makes him any different is for you to decide.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re:

I used to think it was a sure thing he was dodgy but his RusVelo times actually made me change my view

He's also been quite critical of the way WADA relaxed rules on the use of products like caffeine and pseudoephedrine. Obviously, for many hereabouts there's no two sides to this, it's as clear as day he's rotten, rotten to the core, but when you actually look at him it's far from clear.

 

[sniper]

Re:

I used to think it was a sure thing he was dodgy but his RusVelo times actually made me change my view, e.g:

http://www.velonation.com/News/ID/15013/Salzwedel-disappointed-and-sad-by-four-RusVelo-positives-this-year.aspx

So he's no longer dodgy in your eyes?
What's in that story that made you change your mind?
Obviously that string of positives at RusVelo after he left is not evidence of Heiko being corrupt or a facilitator, but I'm interested to know why you see it as an indication to the contrary.
From what I can tell it surely doesn't suggest he cultivated strong antidoping ethics into the team?

A possible scenario is that Makarov brought him in to put a proper internal testing system in place.
Then when Salzwedel left, some riders went full gas.

I used to think it was a sure thing he was dodgy but his RusVelo times actually made me change my view

He's also been quite critical of the way WADA relaxed rules on the use of products like caffeine and pseudoephedrine. Obviously, for many hereabouts there's no two sides to this, it's as clear as day he's rotten, rotten to the core, but when you actually look at him it's far from clear.

no need for the strawman.

As to your point about caffeine, who was that Garmin doc who tried to get tramadol on the banned list?
I don't think it means much in terms of how 'legit' or not someone is. It does show he can talk the talk.

 

[Ferminal]

Nothing in that article per se, of course what you say means nothing. But the question remains why he was forced out if his doping regime was so successful and returned no positives (ever?). The guilty until proven otherwise grows thin in the absence of anything workable. It's different to riders where performance in itself is enough of an indicator to maintain high levels of suspicion. The "works in cycling and has successful riders so we should be suspicious line" is fine but no point having a discussion about if that's all it is.

From what I can tell it surely doesn't suggest he cultivated strong antidoping ethics into the team?

If you read my post I'm pretty much saying that's probably exactly what he hasn't done

 

[sniper]

Re:

Nothing in that article per se, of course what you say means nothing. But the question remains why he was forced out if his doping regime was so successful and returned no positives (ever?). The guilty until proven otherwise grows thin in the absence of anything workable. It's different to riders where performance in itself is enough of an indicator to maintain high levels of suspicion. The "works in cycling and has successful riders so we should be suspicious line" is fine but no point having a discussion about if that's all it is.

From what I can tell it surely doesn't suggest he cultivated strong antidoping ethics into the team?

If you read my post I'm pretty much saying that's probably exactly what he hasn't done

thanks for clarifying and fair points.

"works in cycling and has successful riders so we should be suspicious line" is fine but no point having a discussion about if that's all it is.

it's more like "former East German doc pops up working with Australia/AIS, BC/Brailsford, RusVelo/Makarov, back to BC/Brailsford/Wiggins."
Now working for one of the most vocal cleans zero-tolerance national cycling teams that have ever existed, reunited with Brian Stephens and with Shane Sutton reenforcing the AIS-BC link which in itself deserves extra attention. How does Salzwedel tie in there? Certainly doesn't strike me as just a pawn. Go through the thread and you'll find plenty of eyebrowraisers. The way Wiggins talks about him suggests he's been instrumental to Wiggins, and I bet that aint just about saddle sore and nutrition drinks.

There's the Salzwedel-White link which ties in with the multiple AIS-OricaGE-Sky-BC links.
Voigt is there going back to Salzwedel's East German roots.

And nota bene, nobody here ever tests positive. Some get exposed (e.g. White), but seldom through positive tests.

Don't forget AIS was already settled in Tuscany in the early 2000s, and it was Shayne Bannan who introduced Brailsford and Sciandri into the Italian scene when the latter two set up the BC Acadamy in Tuscany. Sassi and Cecchini are right there in the mix, as are guys like Scinto, Mikhaelov, Ferrari, and Tinkov.
Bannan and Salzwedel go back a long way.
It's not pretty.
In sum, although I'm not sure how Salzwedel ties in, finding that out seems like a fair purpose of this thread. I think there's enough 'workable' stuff here, though admittedly whether/how the thread develops depends on the willingness of people who've been closer to the action to chime in and add info.
People such as GotDropped.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

I bet that aint just about saddle sore and nutrition drinks.
...
It's not pretty.

fair points sniper

Matt Bazzano:
In 1990, Matt was awarded one of the inaugural scholarships in the Australian road cycling program at the Australian Institute of Sport, alongside riders Rob Crowe, Pat Jonker, Rob McLauchlin, Jason Phillips, Grant Rice and Jamie Kelly. Run by a young East German coach Heiko Salzwedel, Matt felt privileged to be part of this “pioneer period”.

Salzwedel would become one of the most influential people in Australian cycling for decades, setting up the AIS road programme and launching the careers of many great Australian road cyclists. Matt recalls, “He was very intense, but jeez we all loved him. He was more than a coach, he influenced everything about you, a real mentor. And look at the riders he produced …”
http://cyclingtips.com/2013/11/where-are-they-now-matt-bazzano/

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I bet that aint just about saddle sore and nutrition drinks.
...
It's not pretty.

fair points sniper

Matt Bazzano:
In 1990, Matt was awarded one of the inaugural scholarships in the Australian road cycling program at the Australian Institute of Sport, alongside riders Rob Crowe, Pat Jonker, Rob McLauchlin, Jason Phillips, Grant Rice and Jamie Kelly. Run by a young East German coach Heiko Salzwedel, Matt felt privileged to be part of this “pioneer period”.

Salzwedel would become one of the most influential people in Australian cycling for decades, setting up the AIS road programme and launching the careers of many great Australian road cyclists. Matt recalls, “He was very intense, but jeez we all loved him. He was more than a coach, he influenced everything about you, a real mentor. And look at the riders he produced …”
http://cyclingtips.com/2013/11/where-are-they-now-matt-bazzano/

Good find and nothing new in the sport. Former East German employed to use the experience from former life to 'INFLUENCE' athletes for countries prepared to pay.

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

I bet that aint just about saddle sore and nutrition drinks.
...
It's not pretty.

fair points sniper

I might need help in having this explained.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

I bet that aint just about saddle sore and nutrition drinks.
...
It's not pretty.

fair points sniper

I might need help in having this explained.

basically just trying to establish how central (or not) the guy has been to the success of his teams/riders.

As for RusVelo, Ferminal had a point of course. If Salzwedel was deliberately removed from the RusVelo setup, one possible reason is that he was considered too conventional, not allowing his riders to go full genius.
Could be.
Then again, the only source I've seen suggesting Salzwedel was removed (rather than quitting voluntarily in favor of a better job at BC) is Salzwedel himself, who, after those 4 positives, would have had obvious PR gains by pretending he was removed. Hell, it's perfectly possible he was tipped off by a Zorzoli kind of guy on the inside telling him to jump ship as soon as possible because positives were coming.

Maybe somebody who understands Russian could look into the Russian media coverage of those four positives and Salzwedel's possible involvement?

As for Salzwedel and the AIS, I found two interesting Scott McGrory blogs on cyclingtips. Here, too, there are 'mixed' messages that can be explained/interpreted in different ways. Now, in that second blog, McGrory quite clearly suggests doping didn't play any part, but the big caveat is of course that McGrory doesn't have any motivation to spill the beans wrt doping even it had been rampant.

Those who don’t put in the effort simply don’t make it. I know many riders from the Charlie Walsh and Heiko Salzwedel era where East German training regimes were adopted for the AIS. Yes they were tough, but they may have unnecessarily broke a lot of talented riders. The talent ID programs that the AIS now have in place can identify the physical and character traits of what will make a successful cyclists without needing to smash them down and see who’s left standing. http://cyclingtips.com/2012/02/the-generation-of-storytellers/

Charlie’s training programs were infamous for their brutality. Truth be known, he bought the East German Team Pursuit training program from Heiko Salzswedal at the 1988 Olympics, translated it and from 1989 onwards we were doing extraordinary amounts of kilometers on the road, track and ergo’s. We were also very young, and there was a key element to the East German program that we didn’t have, it enabled them to sustain a brutal regime and some how get stronger, and stronger, if you know where I’m going…
http://cyclingtips.com/2014/03/reflecting-on-a-legend-charlie-walsh/

 

[sniper]

Interview with Salzwedel when he started RusVelo.
http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/rusvelo-re-building-the-salzwedel-way/

Anybody heard of this Popov guy?

Salzwedel's project is still very much in the building phase, and he's still in the process of surrounding himself with the right people so that the project can be on the right path to reaching its potential. One of the people that the East German maestro has got on board is Victor Popov – Russian born-Australian sports scientist and physiotherapist, probably best known for his work with Robbie McEwen. Popov's role is sports science co-ordinator not only for RusVelo but for the Russian Federation. Popov worked with the Australian Institute of Sport from 1987 and was still there when Salzwedel set up the road and mountain bike program there in 1990.

McEwen (Katusha) in 2009:

"My osteopath Victor Popov will help me through this recovery period so I can train well and arrive at the Giro in top condition."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/cycling/lancearmstrong/5167704/Lance-Armstrong-confirms-Giro-dItalia-entry.html

Wasn't "osteopath" one of those omerta metaphors for fixer/facilitator?

On a side, the multiple links between Katusha-Makarov-AIS-BC/Sky on different levels (riders, docs, sports scientists, coaches) are fascinating. And not exactly reassuring.

 

[sniper]

Victor Popov, "Robbie's right hand man"
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/archive/robbies-right-hand-man-73829

But Popov?s career as a physio took him to the Brisbane Lions in 1999. Then an under-performing Aussie Rules team, a new coach swept through the backroom staff and appointed Popov.

?I love working for the Lions,? Popov says. ?Rugby was my game when I was younger but you can?t beat footie. I?m the head physio and we have a team of three who work on the players.

Like Leinders, you wonder what it is he does that makes him so wanted

?I do Robbie?s massage because I know him and his body so well and I look after a couple of the others too,? he says.
?My job is to give physio to prevent niggles developing into big problems that may force a rider to quit the race. For example, Christophe Brandt?s elbow got hit by a motorcycle mirror. The pain is causing him to ride in a different position and that could give him a problem in his hip or knee. We try to straighten him up so it doesn?t affect his position on a bike.

?Most of my work is about alignment. If a rider is crooked on his bike he will get problems. Not only that but it compromises power. I can sometimes see a rider and think he should be in a different position but setting a rider?s position is not my job, although I?ll make suggestions.?

 

[sniper]

Popov:
http://qsmc.net.au/our-team/sports-physiotherapists/victor-popov/

He has been a National team physiotherapist with Cycling and Swimming teams since 1987. Victor has also worked with professional cycling teams internationally, including Credit Agricole, Francois de Jeux, and with Davitamon Lotto at the 2004, 2005 & 2006 Tour de France.

Brisbane Lions and Australian national swimming team.
Head physio.
not pretty.

 

[sniper]

Re:

the plot thickens...

A question that came up ...

Arnold alludes to a story behind Salzwedel's departure from the AIS, at the end of 1997, but chooses not to tell it.

this piece relates directly to your question viz. to the sacking of Heiko in 1997/8:

Dear http://www.cyclingnews.com readers:

Today we announce that the Australian Institute of Sport has sacked AIS Road Cycling Coach Heiko Salzwedel. For overseas readers, and perhaps some Australian readers, the significance of this move may be lost. But let me tell you that in my opinion it means that Jonathan Hall, who recently signed a professional contract with Festina-Lotus, will be the last professional rider Australia produces for a long-time. The pipeline that Heiko created which has seen Patrick Jonker, Henk Vogels, Jonathan Hall, Jay Sweet, Alan Iacuone, Robbie McEwen, and more in recent years has been cut off.

A lot of cyclists in Australia have their own versions of the affair. They point to an alleged over-funded, under-achieving National Track program as being instrumental in the downgrading of the road program. They allege that there are petty jealousies tearing the sport apart. They allege that officialdom is out of control and they allege that it does not serve or properly promote our sport. And without naming names they allege drug cover-ups, misuse of funds and more. I may or may not present further evidence on these issues.

But whatever the riders think about all of this, the loser is Australian road cycling which has already begun its decline back into mediocrity. And isn't the Olympics here in 18 months. What a joke!

Laurie Cousins, has sent me another transcript from the ABC radio program, Grandstand with ABC sport's reporter, Tim Gabriel talking with Heiko. Here it is. Sad day here.

bill

http://autobus.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/jul98/jul5.html

who's bill and who covered what up?

 

[fmk_RoI]

Re: Re:

who's bill

Bill Mitchell. CN founder.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

who's bill

Bill Mitchell. CN founder.

cheers.

so Bill knows more about those drug cover-ups involving Salzwedel?
Would be good to hear from him in this regard, if only to protect clean athletes in the present-day peloton.

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

Good find and nothing new in the sport. Former East German employed to use the experience from former life to 'INFLUENCE' athletes for countries prepared to pay.

Here's Heiko selling Garmin/Sky/Cookson snakeoil avant la lettre...
We're counting July 2005 TdF, Heiko comments on Frigo's positive. All the new clean are talking points are there:

googletranslate:
To the case of Dario Frigo I join the opinion of Jean-Marie Leblanc. The Italian is one of the few diehards who simply refuse to believe that since a few years a new wind is blowing in professional cycling. As a sign of the new era in professional cycling, I also value the fact that it was Frigos team Fassa Bortolo itself, the police provided the vital clue. The team managers have long recognized the signs of the time and the new policy already internalized in the fight against doping. The riders, who still dope themselves are, in my opinion, belong to an endangered species. What we are experiencing now, are no more than the last convulsions. http://www.radsport-aktiv.de/freizeit/freizeitnews_35195.htm

Right. No wonder BC wanted him back!
And yikes...scapegoating the riders whilst safeguarding the enablers.
Not pretty, at all.

 

[oldcrank]

this is one dodgy guy.

Does anyone find it suspicious that in 2008 Denmark rode Cervelo
when Heiko was at the helm, and in 2012 Russia rode Cervelo and
now GB is on Cervelo! Are motors easier to hide in a Cervelo??

nah, just like Daamstard. Daamsgaard gets bikes free from Vroomen, Heiko gets the free bike from CSc, no, Cervelo I mean.

but I ferkin luv the conspiracy, I wish I had come up with it and could take credit. Cos they kicked me out of college because I was plagiarising

#Poe'sLaw

I thought it was for perving on Tamsyn Lewis in the weight room?