How To Say my name! Pronunciation thread

[Armchair Cyclist]

Just use forvo, people

Mainly good, some very misleading: Richard Carapaz by a Spaniard, with a lisped z that would never be used by an Ecuadorian; Meurisse given as though it were a French name; Ben O'Connor in a northeast US accent so that it comes out as OCahnnor;guy from China (!!!) rendering McLay as Mak-Lay...

 

[hrotha]

Mainly good, some very misleading: Richard Carapaz by a Spaniard, with a lisped z that would never be used by an Ecuadorian; Meurisse given as though it were a French name; Ben O'Connor in a northeast US accent so that it comes out as OCahnnor;guy from China (!!!) rendering McLay as Mak-Lay...

But that's why Forvo tells you where the person who provided the clip comes from. It's not a bug, it's a feature

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Mainly good, some very misleading: Richard Carapaz by a Spaniard, with a lisped z that would never be used by an Ecuadorian; Meurisse given as though it were a French name; Ben O'Connor in a northeast US accent so that it comes out as OCahnnor;guy from China (!!!) rendering McLay as Mak-Lay...

Not sure how you think Meurisse should be pronounced. The guy does pronounce Xandro the way a Frenchman would, but if you name your child Xandro, then you are basically asking for it and i can not feel sorry for your offspring. Meurisse is in fact a French name in origin to my knowledge, so the way he pronounces it is likely the correct way.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

But that's why Forvo tells you where the person who provided the clip comes from. It's not a bug, it's a feature

So they may as well have an Englishman pronouncing the surnames of Guillaume and Sara Martin the same way as Dan Martin, and say that is how its said in England. If the idea is to give an authentic pronunciation of the name of an individual, it ought to reflect his/her own region.

It's an editing error rather than a bug (or more likely, the result of no editing and just trusting contributors): it's certainly not a useful feature.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Not sure how you think Meurisse should be pronounced. The guy does pronounce Xandro the way a Frenchman would, but if you name your child Xandro, then you are basically asking for it and i can not feel sorry for your offspring. Meurisse is in fact a French name in origin to my knowledge, so the way he pronounces it is likely the correct way.

Very possibly the original way, but he is Flemish, and I have certainly heard other Flemish speakers say it as (excuse poor phonetic spellings) Murr-issuh rather than Mureess.

And if one of the three pronounces Xandro as Ex-andro, and the others use a z sound for the initial X, it gives little confidence than anyone is doing more than guessing.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

So they may as well have an Englishman pronouncing the surnames of Guillaume and Sara Martin the same way as Dan Martin, and say that is how its said in England. If the idea is to give an authentic pronunciation of the name of an individual, it ought to reflect his/her own region.

I fundamentally disagree. It's why we get this crap with commentators pronouncing Jorgenson as if it were an American name. So let's say next year a Japanese rider breaks into the pro scene, but he has a French name. What are you going to do then? Half the Belgian riders come from a part of the country with a speech impediment, and no i am not joking. Should we start pronouncing their names the way they THINK their names are supposed to be pronounced as well?

 

[hrotha]

So they may as well have an Englishman pronouncing the surnames of Guillaume and Sara Martin the same way as Dan Martin, and say that is how its said in England. If the idea is to give an authentic pronunciation of the name of an individual, it ought to reflect his/her own region.

It's an editing error rather than a bug (or more likely, the result of no editing and just trusting contributors): it's certainly not a useful feature.

Of course it's a useful feature. First of all, the main purpose of Forvo is not to be database of celebrity personal names, but to record how natives say words in their own accent of their native languages. So it's important that it can include different variants. It's very much a feature, and an essential feature at that

Secondly, the way it works you can already look up how other Ecuadorians say Carapaz's name, so it's not really a problem, but the thing is, the name is used outside of Ecuador. If you come to Spain and want to talk about cycling with Spanish fans, you'll hear people say [käɾäˈpäθ]. So if you click on the recording that is clearly labelled as "Spain" and you get the Spanish pronunciation, why would you say that's misleading? You got exactly what you requested

 

[RedheadDane]

It's why we get this crap with commentators pronouncing Jorgenson as if it were an American name.

In the case of the guy on Visma, it is an American name.

Do you also agree with the guy who claimed that Seixas is pronouncing his own name wrong because it's originally a Portuguese name?

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Of course it's a useful feature. First of all, the main purpose of Forvo is not to be database of celebrity personal names,

That claim does not hold water when they have an index of, eg cyclists at the 2021 Tour de France

Secondly, the way it works you can already look up how other Ecuadorians say Carapaz's name, so it's not really a problem,

Where? Only one rendition given, and that is the lisping Spaniard

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

I fundamentally disagree.

So you think exactly the same pronunciation should be given to Sara Martin, Guillaume Martin, Dan Martin and Tony Martin? (admittedly, I'd struggle to differentiate between the last two, but an ear attuned to a Sorbian accent might) That an English language commentator should imitate a Castillian pronunciation of a Z in an Ecuadorian name?

 

[jono]

As part of registration with a pro team, riders should submit a recording to the UCI of them saying their own name. This would be added to a database that is shared with all broadcast partners. I doubt all announcers would bother to learn the names properly, but at least it would leave them no excuse for getting it wrong.

American announcers are especially entertaining. Often their pronunciation attempts invent or omit syllables or letters, all done with the absolute confidence that they couldn't possibly be wrong.

 

[hrotha]

That claim does not hold water when they have an index of, eg [cyclists at the 2021 Tour de France


Where? Only one rendition given, and that is the lisping Spaniard

Main purpose =/= Only purpose
The site is full of normal words, expressions and sentences. Its tag literally says "The pronunciation dictionary. All the words in all the languages pronounced by native speakers". The list of latest pronunciations in popular languages at the bottom of the page only has a couple personal names

As for Carapaz's name in particular, I didn't check if other renditions were given, but what does that change? It's clearly labelled "Spain". And it's user-generated content - can't blame Forvo if no Ecuadorians have provided their own recording, it's still the site working as intended (and as it should)

 

[Netserk]

Absolutely laughable to call him Jørgensen with a Danish pronunciation. No one does that, and he wouldn't even be able to.

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Main purpose =/= Only purpose
The site is full of normal words, expressions and sentences.

But that is not the purpose for which it was recommended to us here. And its usefulness for that purpose is what I am commenting on.

As for Carapaz's name in particular, I didn't check if other renditions were given, but what does that change?

Well it does render your statement "you can already look up how other Ecuadorians say Carapaz's name, " untrue.

And it means that we have no more than a guess by someone who obviously does not know how the language is spoken in Ecuador, which is about as useful as an English speaker saying "I know how I pronounce 'bean', so I will apply that to Sean Kelly's name."

 

[RedheadDane]

As for Carapaz's name in particular, I didn't check if other renditions were given, but what does that change? It's clearly labelled "Spain". And it's user-generated content - can't blame Forvo if no Ecuadorians have provided their own recording, it's still the site working as intended (and as it should)

But it's still nice that PCS provides the option to hear how the riders pronounce their own names.

As part of registration with a pro team, riders should submit a recording to the UCI of them saying their own name. This would be added to a database that is shared with all broadcast partners. I doubt all announcers would bother to learn the names properly, but at least it would leave them no excuse for getting it wrong.

Hopefully nobody does the same thing Norsgaard did when he joined Movistar, and mistakenly pronounced his name in English.
(At least I don't think he could do that with his new(ish) middle name...)

 

[hrotha]

But that is not the purpose for which it was recommended to us here. And its usefulness for that purpose is what I am commenting on.

You said it's an error, I explained why it isn't 🤷

Well it does render your statement "you can already look up how other Ecuadorians say Carapaz's name, " untrue.

Well yes, but I was talking about the site as a whole using Carapaz as an example, so the point still stands even if the specific example doesn't work

And it means that we have no more than a guess by someone who obviously does not know how the language is spoken in Ecuador, which is about as useful as an English speaker saying "I know how I pronounce 'bean', so I will apply that to Sean Kelly's name."

No, it doesn't work like that. Sean is a name of Irish origin that keeps the Irish spelling and pronunciation. Carapaz may or may not be of indigenous origin, but it is a Spanish name and its pronunciation is 100% predictable everywhere in the Spanish-speaking world

 

[SafeBet]

As part of registration with a pro team, riders should submit a recording to the UCI of them saying their own name.

Agree. The Olympics did it for Paris 2024 and it was very useful.

 

[Unchained]

Because of the roots of Del Toro's first name pretty much global, don't think he cares if people use varied pronunciations.
In Mexican dialect most people say something that sounds like It's-zack or It's-sack with the Z being very subtle when pronounced. But Isaac doesn't currently appear to be butchered like let's say Paul Seixas name which I have heard 4,5 variations that I wouldn't be able to spell if attempted .

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

Carapaz may or may not be of indigenous origin, but it is a Spanish name and its pronunciation is 100% predictable everywhere in the Spanish-speaking world

No it isn't, because some people in Spain, but no-one in Spanish speaking Ecuador, pronounce the end of the word with a th sound.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Absolutely laughable to call him Jørgensen with a Danish pronunciation. No one does that, and he wouldn't even be able to.

Which obviously is irrelevant. A person's name doesn't change because he or she is incapable of pronouncing it correctly. And if we shouldn't try to pronounce the name correctly, then why even bother pronouncing it incorrectly in a different language instead of incorrectly in your own language.

So you think exactly the same pronunciation should be given to Sara Martin, Guillaume Martin, Dan Martin and Tony Martin? (admittedly, I'd struggle to differentiate between the last two, but an ear attuned to a Sorbian accent might) That an English language commentator should imitate a Castillian pronunciation of a Z in an Ecuadorian name?

No because there are plenty of languages that have common origins that far predate the name. But if a certain German surname actually comes from Spain, then yes it should be pronounced the same as the Spanish name. Because... that's the name.

 

[RedheadDane]

Which obviously is irrelevant. A person's name doesn't change because he or she is incapable of pronouncing it correctly. And if we shouldn't try to pronounce the name correctly, then why even bother pronouncing it incorrectly in a different language instead of incorrectly in your own language.

But Jorgenson is American, so pronouncing his name in Danish would be wrong.

If a name originally comes from [country A], but a specific family has been living in [country B] for several generations, then it would be silly to insist they should continue pronouncing it the way it's done in [country A].

 

[hrotha]

No it isn't, because some people in Spain, but no-one in Spanish speaking Ecuador, pronounce the end of the word with a th sound.

Which is entirely predictable from the spelling, and completely consistent

Which obviously is irrelevant. A person's name doesn't change because he or she is incapable of pronouncing it correctly. And if we shouldn't try to pronounce the name correctly, then why even bother pronouncing it incorrectly in a different language instead of incorrectly in your own language.

What. Of course a person's name changes when they and everybody around them pronounce them a certain way in a different language, because at that point it's not a name in X language, but a name in Y language of X origin. It's been loaned. The speakers of the original language are no longer relevant

Like, if you want to argue that, you'd have to say the Danes are doing it wrong by not sticking to the Greek pronunciation

 

[Armchair Cyclist]

No because there are plenty of languages that have common origins that far predate the name. But if a certain German surname actually comes from Spain, then yes it should be pronounced the same as the Spanish name. Because... that's the name.

I would argue that that was the name. But assimilation is a thing, and denying that it has happened serves no purpose.

Pronunciation is necessarily a by-product of accent: to cite the example of O'Connor that I referred to earlier, should all those with different regional accents in the English speaking world abandon their native accent to produce the word as it is said in Galway? And should they be spelling it Ó Conchobhair?

 

[kingjr]

When speaking English, I don't think I would go out of my way to pronounce the names of compatriots such as Jan Ullrich or Michael Schumacher in the "original" German way. It wouldn't feel natural.

 

[Logic-is-your-friend]

Like, if you want to argue that, you'd have to say the Danes are doing it wrong by not sticking to the Greek pronunciation

No, because surnames are a far more recent phenomenon.