Schlecks Depreciation Thread

[The Hitch]

We're discussing Andy Schleck. When in Rome...

Nicely done Libertine

 

[airstream]

ok, Libertine, look. you are making the conclusion about schleck's descending primarily on the base of possibly his worst downhill ever to gap and equaling it just about to anton or basso's level. i can recall valverde's downhill from sierra nevada where he lost the vuelta to vino (purely on the descent, unlike andy, not having been dropped uphill) and say "alex is a bad descender". would you agree with it?

 

[The Hitch]

I would actually agree that Andy Schleck is not the worst descender. Gap and his fear of descent quotes aside, he was doing it pretty well on stage 18 this year and stayed with Evans and co on the brutal descent into Pinerolo where Samus back wheel was at times going over his head, Chouchou ended up in a garden (and somewhere else), and Hivert and possibly a few others crashed.

Also hes not as bad as Basso cos Basso came 30 seconds down there.

No doubt woodenswan will tell me ive logged into the wrong account

 

[airstream]

He's about as good as most pure climbers (Antón, Basso etc), but can't hold a candle to any of the more 'all-round' guys (Evans, Vino, Sánchez, Valverde)...

let us assume that you are right. how can you explain the fact that andy put 15-20 sec into attacking nibali on col du romme descent? a happystance or he was stronger in that in 2009? he was very courageous then, had a risk a lot, though schleck's anthropometry сlearly is not for brilliant downhill skills initially. everyone can make a mistake, all the more so the only excessive braking can cost much time, in case a rider stays alone on a descent.
basso is an unique descender, remembering how he rode his bike perpendicularly on the way to la thuile.

The Colle Pramartino descent isn't too bad. It's only 5km long and had been raced in the Giro a couple of years earlier. Di Luca, Pellizotti, Arroyo and Sastre couldn't gap Menchov on that descent, and took less than 20 seconds out of such noted descenders as Leipheimer, Soler and Basso. But if Pramartino is a problem for you since you feel many would have considered it dangerous, let's consider the previous day's ride into Gap. Much wider, friendlier roads there.

it was extremely technical. have you ever seen something similar on other gts? i didnt watch 09 stage but seriously doubt that the descend was passed so agressively as last year.

Maybe, but he is one who probably represents the feeling of 99% of the silent peleton and so quite rightly speaks out against what he/they perceive as dangerous because he will be quoted.

apparently andy had to keep silent or smile modestly being reconciled to his fate, as basso did. public opinion is ready to make out a whining in any words.

 

[Nick C.]

ok, Libertine, look. you are making the conclusion about schleck's descending primarily on the base of possibly his worst downhill ever to gap and equaling it just about to anton or basso's level. i can recall valverde's downhill from sierra nevada where he lost the vuelta to vino (purely on the descent, unlike andy, not having been dropped uphill) and say "alex is a bad descender". would you agree with it?

um er I think Valverde and Sastre were left behind by Vino, Kaschekin and one other were up the hill. If you look at the stsge just as Valverde is coming up to the trio on the descent Vino looks back (or Kaschekin does and shouts) and takes off. Then it becomes a chase of Vino v. Valverde, with Vino picking up Danielson (who works him) while Valverde's group is joined by several non-working riders and a gassed Sastre. Superficially the same, but in reality nothing close.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

it was extremely technical. have you ever seen something similar on other gts? i didnt watch 09 stage but seriously doubt that the descend was passed so agressively as last year.

I didn't say Andy was the WORST descender, just that he's a bad one. You said he was a GOOD descender, and that's not true. Andy is not as bad as Moncoutié, or Soler, or Basso, or Antón, or his brother, most of the time. But being a better descender than David Moncoutié doesn't make you a good descender, which is something Andy Schleck has never been.

As for have we ever seen something similar to the Pramartino descent in other GTs? It was only 5km long. Well, we've seen that very descent in the Giro 2009, of course, the Mortirolo descent is technical and steep, San Lorenzo in the Vuelta isn't a piece of cake to descend, and besides there are other races outside of the Grand Tours where such descents can be found, especially in places like the Basque country and Switzerland where flat terrain is at a premium. The Giro descends Finestre, and was going to descend Crostis. Pramartino is by no means unique, and its inclusion in the Tour is by no means a one-off that Andy couldn't have prepared himself for.

 

[uphillstruggle]

Descents themselves are not especially dangerous. It's the speed which you descend at that makes them dangerous. Andy could not be honest and say that: 'Evans, Samu and Alberto went too fast and I got scared' so he blamed the parcours instead. What he really should have done was said nothing but I suppose as a star you are expected to give interviews on how the race went.

To be fair you could see Sanchez losing some ground on AC and Evans on that descent so even one of the best descenders out there was losing his bottle.

 

[Ripper]

Most amusing thing I have seen on this forum for a while.

I agree, that was quite funny

 

[Ripper]

...

I honestly do not know why there is so much arguing going on about Andy's descending.

Is Andy the worst descender? No. Is he the worst technical rider? No. Does he whine the most? Perhaps not.

However, when you combine the factors, he is pretty sucky. Cycling is a game of fitness, skill, and tactics. His skills could be better. His tactics could be better. He could hone these through actually trying in more races he 'participates' in during the year. I have more respect for Frank because at least he 'races' more during the year.

Umm, how many races has Andy won?

 

[Ripper]

I should add ...

"Girls girls girls, all this beetching about andyla is making me want to sprint over him just for fun" (Mark Cavendish )

 

[airstream]

schleck is a pretty good descender to keep a minimal gap after hypothetically gained 20-25 sec at the summit of bale. initially the talk was about it cos we discussed zero contador's advantage over schleck, excluding chaingate.

 

[Ripper]

Like I was saying ...

All this beetchin makes me think of the Greipel. Andyla is also the sheet

 

[Zam_Olyas]

I honestly do not know why there is so much arguing going on about Andy's descending.

Is Andy the worst descender? No. Is he the worst technical rider? No. Does he whine the most? Perhaps not.

However, when you combine the factors, he is pretty sucky. Cycling is a game of fitness, skill, and tactics. His skills could be better. His tactics could be better. He could hone these through actually trying in more races he 'participates' in during the year. I have more respect for Frank because at least he 'races' more during the year.

Umm, how many races has Andy won?

From one dude to another dude. Good post

 

[bikeguy]

I have more respect for Frank because at least he 'races' more during the year.

Same here. Respect for Frank.

 

[lostincosmos]

Same here. Respect for Frank.

me three...at least more respect than his brother. Frank has actually been known to take off up a hill at the correct time without staring in a rear-view and stopping when others come with.
andy? umm...

 

[Angliru]

Same here. Respect for Frank.

Much more respect for Frank than Andy...although Frank certainly can get his whine on as well as Andy when he wants to (well not as well as Andy because that'd be pretty difficult to top.).

 

[airstream]

so much whining about whining. it seems most of you root for them secretly.

 

[markene2]

Never liked Andy, but Frank is OK. He at least races in every race he is participating in. And you dont hear that much whining from him.

 

[Angliru]

so much whining about whining. it seems most of you root for them secretly.

I root for them to lose, but not secretly.

 

[The Hitch]

Same here. Respect for Frank.

me three...at least more respect than his brother. Frank has actually been known to take off up a hill at the correct time without staring in a rear-view and stopping when others come with.
andy? umm...

Much more respect for Frank than Andy...although Frank certainly can get his whine on as well as Andy when he wants to (well not as well as Andy because that'd be pretty difficult to top.).

if im going to be fair i can't place frank much higher than Andrew because he has been far worse with regards to sastre. i mean what is complaining about a descent compared to trashing a fellow cyclist like that.

 

[woodenswan]

if im going to be fair i can't place frank much higher than Andrew because he has been far worse with regards to sastre. i mean what is complaining about a descent compared to trashing a fellow cyclist like that.

what exactly did Frank say?

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

if im going to be fair i can't place frank much higher than Andrew because he has been far worse with regards to sastre. i mean what is complaining about a descent compared to trashing a fellow cyclist like that.

agreed.
I can't stand either of those arrogant brats.

Sure I respect Frank's attitude to racing more then andy, but really that is cause the juxtoposion of his brother's racing attitude is a bleak one.

 

[Parrulo]

if im going to be fair i can't place frank much higher than Andrew because he has been far worse with regards to sastre. i mean what is complaining about a descent compared to trashing a fellow cyclist like that.

ya i used to like frank and said it plenty of times on this forum, but it became impossible after the sastre comments

 

[woodenswan]

ya i used to like frank and said it plenty of times on this forum, but it became impossible after the sastre comments

what did he say?! i don seem to be able to find it. im really curious

 

[Parrulo]

what did he say?! i don seem to be able to find it. im really curious

pretty much that he would have won the tour if the traitor that is carlos sastre hadn't attacked on the alp d'huez. . . .