Teams & Riders Sepp Kuss is the next Sepp Kuss thread

[meat puppet]

GC Kuss The Survivor

GC Kuss the Survivor. More grit than knives. Vamos Sepp!!! Available in Women's

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Meanwhile Kuss thinking I was spoon fed a GT and all I got was this t shirt design.

 

[RedheadDane]

Hey, @Extinction, just to be clear; if Vingegaard had taken the jersey on Angliru by a very small margin, then Kuss should still have been allowed - or even expected - to attack him on the following stages to try get the jersey back, right?

 

[Extinction]

Yes, the time gap would have been so small that practically you would have had two guys in the lead. Although Vingegaard would have attacked first to increase his advantage, with Roglic working for Kuss to close the gap and possibly counter.

 

[RedheadDane]

Yes, the time gap would have been so small that practically you would have had two guys in the lead. Although Vingegaard would have attacked first to increase his advantage, with Roglic working for Kuss to close the gap and possibly counter.

What if they'd made the decision to actually ride for Vingegaard?

 

[Extinction]

What if they'd made the decision to actually ride for Vingegaard?

I don't think Roglic would have taken to that and I bet Kuss for the win was the only way to settle internal differences. Kuss was the only rider that could tame the ambitions of Roglic and Vingegaard to win a second GT this year, without resulting in acrimonious breakdown of team relationahips. Whereas I do not think Roglic would have appreciated team orders to sacrifice himself for Vingegaard. Primoz already let on after his Angrilu victory that the situation wasn't ideal, but it would have gotten worse had Vingegaard taken the lead from Kuss. Of course, I wouldn't have had any problem with it, because it would have benefitted the race, the melodrama and hence entertainment value.

 

[CyclistAbi]

What if they'd made the decision to actually ride for Vingegaard?

They did.

 

[theyoungest]

Yes, because that's exactly why Jumbo worked so damn hard to put Sepp up the road. It certainly wasn't to serve him victory on a plate that was prepared for Vingegaard and Roglic. If Remco hadn't been so stupid as to broadcast to the world he wanted to give the jersey away, there simply would not have been such a ferocious fight to get into a break, while that break certainly would not have been so numerous as a result. The size of the break was caused by the great many who fancied their chances of obtaining red (for themselves or a teammate) and it was that size that gave Kuss such a margin of time, whilst a free ride to victory.

Jumbo wanted to test Quickstep, and use Kuss as a tactical pawn. Of course they didn't develop this plan because Evenepoel had said he wanted to give the jersey away. I'm sure Kuss wasn't the guy he had in mind

 

[RedheadDane]

They did.

Well, no. Coz Kuss kept the jersey on Angliru, at which point the final decision - to ride for him - was made.

 

[Bolder]

For non-Americans, there's an expression "Now that he's seen Paris, how are you going keep him down on the farm?" -- which should be self explanatory. So...now that Kuss has tasted what it means to win a big race, what's next? Will he just meekly go back to donkey duty riding 5 meters behind Jonas or Primoz on only the steepest pitches? Or will GC Kuss rear up on his hind legs and demand Giro leadership?

You've got a guy who, whether he was gifted a huge victory, still pedaled his a** off and with a decent team of his own can likely Top 10 any GT -- with some ITT upside, even. If I were Jumbo and there's going to be money on the table after the sponsorship shuffles, I'd sign him on a big 3-year deal, give him Giro leadership and some ITT training and say "be ready for the Tour as top mtn dom/semi-protected leader if things really go pear shaped." Worst case, you lock up the best climbing helper so other teams can't poach him.

If I were Kuss I'd demand that deal. (not sure when his contract ends, but he could always seek to renegotiate)

 

[RedheadDane]

For non-Americans, there's an expression "Now that he's seen Paris, how are you going keep him down on the farm?" -- which should be self explanatory. So...now that Kuss has tasted what it means to win a big race, what's next? Will he just meekly go back to donkey duty riding 5 meters behind Jonas or Primoz on only the steepest pitches? Or will GC Kuss rear up on his hind legs and demand Giro leadership?

In his case, surely the saying should be "Now that he's seen Madrid."

 

[theyoungest]

For non-Americans, there's an expression "Now that he's seen Paris, how are you going keep him down on the farm?" -- which should be self explanatory. So...now that Kuss has tasted what it means to win a big race, what's next? Will he just meekly go back to donkey duty riding 5 meters behind Jonas or Primoz on only the steepest pitches? Or will GC Kuss rear up on his hind legs and demand Giro leadership?

You've got a guy who, whether he was gifted a huge victory, still pedaled his a** off and with a decent team of his own can likely Top 10 any GT -- with some ITT upside, even. If I were Jumbo and there's going to be money on the table after the sponsorship shuffles, I'd sign him on a big 3-year deal, give him Giro leadership and some ITT training and say "be ready for the Tour as top mtn dom/semi-protected leader if things really go pear shaped." Worst case, you lock up the best climbing helper so other teams can't poach him.

If I were Kuss I'd demand that deal. (not sure when his contract ends, but he could always seek to renegotiate)

Giro leadership was on the cards for him regardless. Kuss for GC, Kooij for the sprints. He hinted at it during the Tour, wanting to try for GC but not with an entire team dedicated to him. Operate from the shadows a bit, he's a reluctant leader.

He'll probably never find himself in a situation as perfect as he did these last few weeks. Nobody expected anything from him, he got "handed" the jersey, everybody rooted for him, and if he lost it it would be mostly thanks to his evil backstabbing teammates. But if he now starts in the Giro with GC ambitions of course he can't do so anymore in relative anonimity. He's the Vuelta champion. That creates a different dynamic, one I'm not too sure he feels very comfortable with.

 

[Salvarani]

For non-Americans, there's an expression "Now that he's seen Paris, how are you going keep him down on the farm?" -- which should be self explanatory. So...now that Kuss has tasted what it means to win a big race, what's next? Will he just meekly go back to donkey duty riding 5 meters behind Jonas or Primoz on only the steepest pitches? Or will GC Kuss rear up on his hind legs and demand Giro leadership?

You've got a guy who, whether he was gifted a huge victory, still pedaled his a** off and with a decent team of his own can likely Top 10 any GT -- with some ITT upside, even. If I were Jumbo and there's going to be money on the table after the sponsorship shuffles, I'd sign him on a big 3-year deal, give him Giro leadership and some ITT training and say "be ready for the Tour as top mtn dom/semi-protected leader if things really go pear shaped."

If I were Kuss I'd demand that deal.

Depends on a lot of things that cant be discussed here properly.

But yeah, naturally a rider wont step back to his former role after a breakthrough performance like that. Not that Kuss has never showed potential, but he probably deserves to ride for himself just as much as the other two now unless there are other things we dont know about or can dicuss properaly here as stated.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Giro leadership was on the cards for him regardless. Kuss for GC, Kooij for the sprints. He hinted at it during the Tour, wanting to try for GC but not with an entire team dedicated to him. Operate from the shadows a bit, he's a reluctant leader.

He'll probably never find himself in a situation as perfect as he did these last few weeks. Nobody expected anything from him, he got "handed" the jersey, everybody rooted for him, and if he lost it it would be mostly thanks to his evil backstabbing teammates. But if he now starts in the Giro with GC ambitions of course he can't do so anymore in relative anonimity. He's the Vuelta champion. That creates a different dynamic, one I'm not too sure he feels very comfortable with.

Well, of course the other thing is that it's then going to be somewhat impossible to 'operate from the shadows' as a GC rider when you've just won a GT, no matter how fortuitous it is. You only have the benefit of surprise once.

I mean, even guys like David Arroyo got treated as threats after their breakout, and he got a much bigger time gift than Sepp and didn't even win that race. Somebody like Melcior Mauri had his breakthrough GC win but then it was only after a couple of years of failures on that front that he got back to the kind of freedom to ride for GC without the pressure, and even then it was largely as a domestique. The problem for Sepp in that comparison is that Melcior won his shock GT at 25 whereas Sepp just turned 29, so the question would be, if that was the situation that played out, whether he'd still have the gas in the tank for it after that down period, or whether he needs to maximise the next couple of years and operate under the pressure of a protected leader that he's indicated isn't something that comes naturally to him.

 

[Salvarani]

Well, of course the other thing is that it's then going to be somewhat impossible to 'operate from the shadows' as a GC rider when you've just won a GT, no matter how fortuitous it is. You only have the benefit of surprise once.

I mean, even guys like David Arroyo got treated as threats after their breakout, and he got a much bigger time gift than Sepp and didn't even win that race. Somebody like Melcior Mauri had his breakthrough GC win but then it was only after a couple of years of failures on that front that he got back to the kind of freedom to ride for GC without the pressure, and even then it was largely as a domestique. The problem for Sepp in that comparison is that Melcior won his shock GT at 25 whereas Sepp just turned 29, so the question would be, if that was the situation that played out, whether he'd still have the gas in the tank for it after that down period, or whether he needs to maximise the next couple of years and operate under the pressure of a protected leader that he's indicated isn't something that comes naturally to him.

Maybe that was true in the past but showing himself he can do it and that he actually won, should be a big confidence booster going forward. Could not get much better.

Plenty of riders who used to be a super-dom of sorts have taken a similar career path and become a leader around that age. Question is if the team can keep everyone happy and afford them.

 

[Bolder]

Giro leadership was on the cards for him regardless. Kuss for GC, Kooij for the sprints. He hinted at it during the Tour, wanting to try for GC but not with an entire team dedicated to him. Operate from the shadows a bit, he's a reluctant leader.

He'll probably never find himself in a situation as perfect as he did these last few weeks. Nobody expected anything from him, he got "handed" the jersey, everybody rooted for him, and if he lost it it would be mostly thanks to his evil backstabbing teammates. But if he now starts in the Giro with GC ambitions of course he can't do so anymore in relative anonimity. He's the Vuelta champion. That creates a different dynamic, one I'm not too sure he feels very comfortable with.

Agreed with all points. the one thing that seems to have changed, at least publicly, is that he now has more confidence in himself. This is the first time he's actually raced an entire GT for position, correct? So, he's got the skills, the experience, the team...and also a big fat target on his back...

 

[IndianCyclist]

Every superdomestique could be a GC leader in another team. But they have <1% chance to win because while they are very good on the mountains, they are usually 1 level below the best climbers and they lack TT skills which always puts them onto a back foot. Kuss should continue what he did in the past and be a foil to his leaders. If and when an opportunity like this Vuelta presents itself or he is solo leader, he can go for the win

 

[theyoungest]

Agreed with all points. the one thing that seems to have changed, at least publicly, is that he now has more confidence in himself. This is the first time he's actually raced an entire GT for position, correct? So, he's got the skills, the experience, the team...and also a big fat target on his back...

A few years ago they wanted him to stay in GC as well in the Vuelta, with Roglic as the leader. But it just didn't work out. He really doesn't handle pressure well. His trainer Mathieu Heijboer has said that since then they've just told him: do what you do on the days that matter, and on the rest just take it easy. The GC Kuss crowd think they deliberately held him back from his true destiny, but that was not quite what was going on.

Of course dealing with pressure is something you can learn, famously Vingegaard was really bad at it as well. But I don't know if Kuss really likes this newfound leadership role. Somehow it seems to me he doesn't.

 

[Andon]

He's never gone into a GT with the notion that his time trial result would have any relevance. So there might be some potential gains in the future years (if he would captain a Giro or Vuelta).

 

[Squire]

So what odds did the bookies give on a Kuss Vuelta win? Is he a bigger surprise betting-wise than TGH in 2020?

 

[SafeBet]

So what odds did the bookies give on a Kuss Vuelta win? Is he a bigger surprise betting-wise than TGH in 2020?

I've seen him at 250 somewhere.
THG was probably a little higher? 300 maybe? Don't remember precisely.

 

[Krzysztof_O]

Of course dealing with pressure is something you can learn, famously Vingegaard was really bad at it as well. But I don't know if Kuss really likes this newfound leadership role. Somehow it seems to me he doesn't.

He was the 3rd strongest guy in his own team so a leadership role was awkward, wasn't it? He can do it again in the future but at most as a co-leader - simply because JV has two GT monsters in their roster.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Enough of Sepp Kuss being a dom. He's won a GT. Time to go elsewhere and be a team leader. JV has enough cooks. Sepp can be the head chef on another team.

 

[Netserk]

Enough of Sepp Kuss being a dom. He's won a GT. Time to go elsewhere and be a team leader. JV has enough cooks. Sepp can be the head chef on another team.

He will be a bottom *** wherever he goes.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

He will be a bottom *** wherever he goes.

Well, I'm sure people thought that he'd peak as a domestique at Jumbo too, but now he's a GT champion.

 

[Red Rick]

Well, I'm sure people thought that he'd peak as a domestique at Jumbo too, but now he's a GT champion.

Kuss readily admits he doesn't like the pressure of being a GT leader. Vingegaard and Roglic were being the perfect training wheels in that regard. There's a reason he floated the idea of doing the Giro for GC without a full team to back him up.