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Teams & Riders Sepp Kuss is the next Sepp Kuss thread

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theyoungest

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Moose McKnuckles said:
Enough of Sepp Kuss being a dom. He's won a GT. Time to go elsewhere and be a team leader. JV has enough cooks. Sepp can be the head chef on another team.
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He's won a GT thanks to the fact he's on Jumbo. Wouldn't have won it on any other team.

He could be a GC leader for EF, for example. Vaughters must have been very jealous watching the last couple of weeks. But there he's probably a candidate for top-5, at best a podium.
 
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Moose McKnuckles

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Red Rick said:
Kuss readily admits he doesn't like the pressure of being a GT leader. Vingegaard and Roglic were being the perfect training wheels in that regard. There's a reason he floated the idea of doing the Giro for GC without a full team to back him up.
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His own words were:
“We didn't know how far I could go physically and mentally because it’s a new experience for me to be leading a race. But from the moment I became the race leader, I felt so good that I thought I wouldn't lose the jersey,” Kuss said.
 
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FroomeWagon

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AmRacer said:
Vinge, Rog, Pog and A Yates are better than Kuss. Kuss can win another GT, if those four don't race.
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I could definitely see those first three not riding the Giro next year if they all go as leaders to the TDF on different teams. (I still don't think Roglic will be on Jumbo next year, he is just going to have way better options as lead dog on a team like Ineos or Trek. )

I also think Kuss would prefer to ride the Vuelta each year. He lives in Andorra, has a Spanish wife/gf?, speaks the language fluently and appears to enjoy it so much he might even adopt that as his home country after he retires. Heading into this year he had no intention to ride the Giro, however illness on the team forced his participation at the last moment. I don't see why he couldn't try and ride all three again next year. Leader in Giro, domestic in TDF, co-leader in Vuelta (with Vinge winning his first).
 
Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

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Blanco said:
Their abilities are maybe about equal (Sepp is maybe a bit better in the high mountains, while Yates is maybe more consistent and versatile), but 3rd in the Tour can only be level down from a Vuelta winner.
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You know that this argument will forever rage though, debating the actual finishing positions vs. whether how strong they actually were relative to other riders in the race. Third strongest rider in Tour supersedes third strongest rider in Vuelta if you want to be critical of the comparison, but a win always trumps a podium just by being a win, and you have to bear in mind that the Tour form is likely to be peak for any athlete contesting it, whereas the Vuelta was Kuss on his third GT of the year and often at the Vuelta a lot is settled by what riders have left in the tank (which was a surprisingly large amount in Kuss' case considering it being his third GT of the year).

I think the primary difference maker would be that Yates has more experience of going for GCs, even if only as kind of middling top 10s which were part of why for many years I'd explain to people that the way to tell the difference between the Yates brothers was "if they're doing something interesting, it's probably Simon". He can probably win a bit of time relative to Kuss in hilly stages that he's shown to be very adept in and via time bonuses thanks to a decent sprint, as against Sepp being slightly better in the mountains, so a lot would depend on the course. Of course, assuming both came in as protected sole leaders, thus precluding the kind of situation where a tactical decision between multiple leaders could settle it.
 
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GroupDK

GroupDK

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Big Sepp-jump in today's update +39 spots. ;)

p730


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Netserk

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Libertine Seguros said:
You know that this argument will forever rage though, debating the actual finishing positions vs. whether how strong they actually were relative to other riders in the race. Third strongest rider in Tour supersedes third strongest rider in Vuelta if you want to be critical of the comparison, but a win always trumps a podium just by being a win, and you have to bear in mind that the Tour form is likely to be peak for any athlete contesting it, whereas the Vuelta was Kuss on his third GT of the year and often at the Vuelta a lot is settled by what riders have left in the tank (which was a surprisingly large amount in Kuss' case considering it being his third GT of the year).
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If so, both Kuss and Rogla should rank above Pogi. Hindley and Evenepoel should have ranked above him last year as well.

No, a win does not trump a Tour podium (necessarily).
 
Libertine Seguros

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Netserk said:
If so, both Kuss and Rogla should rank above Pogi. Hindley and Evenepoel should have ranked above him last year as well.

No, a win does not trump a Tour podium (necessarily).
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Of course, in terms of absolute power outputs. But if you offered me 3rd in the Tour or 1st in the Vuelta, I'm taking the latter.

I am uncharitable and would argue that 3rd strongest in the Tour (as Yates was) is a greater achievement than 3rd strongest in the Vuelta (as Kuss was, despite being the overall winner, for reasons we all already know), but at the same time the gap between the top 2 performers at the Vuelta and Kuss was also likely smaller than the gap between the top 2 performers at the Tour and Yates, so does that balance off the difference between the top end performances at the Tour and the Vuelta? That's the issue, because it's very hard to make a fair judgement on, because of the difference in the time of year, the field, and the different styles of stage and route.

And no matter how fair a judgement I think I'm making, the fact that people who I have well-known strong opinions about are involved means any conclusion I make is hardly going to be seen as the most objective either.
 
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Valv.Piti

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Nah man, if Sepp rode as Adam did in this year's Tour and doesn't crash (more protected role), he's for sure on the podium. Being better at punchy stuff and maybe slightly better in the TT means close to nothing in a GT usually, at least in a GT such at this year's Vuelta and Tour where it just came down to high mountain climbing.
 
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Hugh Januss

Hugh Januss

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Valv.Piti said:
Nah man, if Sepp rode as Adam did in this year's Tour and doesn't crash (more protected role), he's for sure on the podium. Being better at punchy stuff and maybe slightly better in the TT means close to nothing in a GT usually, at least in a GT such at this year's Vuelta and Tour where it just came down to high mountain climbing.
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Regarding that crash in the Tour and more protected role saving him: go back and look at that crash, Vingegaard was either on Sepps's wheel or next one behind. He just got lucky.
 
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