Teams & Riders Sepp Kuss is the next Sepp Kuss thread

[Potomac]

I see a little kid with the jumbo visma vuelta red jersey

 

[Sciatic]

Those are some big crowds. And what's most important is that he's inspiring future generations

Great to see.

 

[18-Valve. (pithy)]

Sepp Kuss: I think it's better for everybody that Roglič is on a different team

In an interview from his Vuelta winning parade, the American reflects on his departing teammate, what's to come in 2024 and the lessons he learned from his career-best season

www.globalcyclingnetwork.com

 

[Potomac]

Did they just Kuss-proof the TdF for 2024?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Sepp seems to believe the media. Sign of the times that he seems to believe he won it fair and square when, you know, he didn’t. Having said that, still a big fan.

 

[ManicJack]

Sepp seems to believe the media. Sign of the times that he seems to believe he won it fair and square when, you know, he didn’t. Having said that, still a big fan.

What is fair and square?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

What is fair and square?

We’ve come to this, huh? “Fair and square”
means beating competitors head to head on the road with all key competitors actually trying to win.

 

[Bolder]

Sepp seems to believe the media. Sign of the times that he seems to believe he won it fair and square when, you know, he didn’t. Having said that, still a big fan.

Is that your takeaway from the interview? I read it as him gently acknowledging that he was gifted it but still being proud of his performance. Which is his right, I think.

I'm certain he knows exactly how and why he won, and his strength relative to Vingegaard and Roglic.

I doubt he'll be in that situation again, though.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Is that your takeaway from the interview? I read it as him gently acknowledging that he was gifted it but still being proud of his performance. Which is his right, I think.

I'm certain he knows exactly how and why he won, and his strength relative to Vingegaard and Roglic.

I doubt he'll be in that situation again, though.

Maybe I read a little more salt into it than I should have. Just reread it and I overstated it. It seemed like a little coded shade about Roglic without much of a thanks in there but it’s also edited by a journalist with a sensationalized headline.

 

[theyoungest]

Maybe I read a little more salt into it than I should have. Just reread it and I overstated it. It seemed like a little coded shade about Roglic without much of a thanks in there but it’s also edited by a journalist with a sensationalized headline.

I don't understand this perception of Roglic as some kind of fragile entity that needs to be protected, even when he gets elaborate praise like Kuss is giving him in this interview. You have to do a whole lot of reading between the lines to somehow find shade in this.

 

[noob]

Sepp Kuss: I think it's better for everybody that Roglič is on a different team

In an interview from his Vuelta winning parade, the American reflects on his departing teammate, what's to come in 2024 and the lessons he learned from his career-best season

www.globalcyclingnetwork.com

I felt like rambling:

The way plan b documentary 2021 showed off Jonas as such incredible humble, shy and quiet, giving everything for others etc versus how Kuss describes him "Jonas especially is more of a verbal leader anyways so it's more his nature, but he really coached me in certain situations,” . (Honestly from what I see in the races Jonas does seem to be rather verbal rather than quiet.) It's just interesting how different images of him are painted. Logically I don't see them conflict but Jumbo exaggerated some of his traits for PR lol.

Maybe I read a little more salt into it than I should have. Just reread it and I overstated it. It seemed like a little coded shade about Roglic without much of a thanks in there but it’s also edited by a journalist with a sensationalized headline.

I don't see any shading of Rogla, but in a way he seems to paint a picture of Rogla as a bit more withdrawn/focused/quiet?

[journalist hat on]The way Kuss himself sounds so different in text versus voice is also noticable. I can't hear his own voice reading this. It doesn't fit with the character talking in the text somehow as if the written media changed Kuss voice language too much. It doesn't sound like him. It might be the language of the journalist.
Historically the journalist also won't be the one writing the headline, nor the introduction of the article. It might have changed nowadays when media houses are more slimmed, not sure. [/journalist hat off]

 

[Potomac]

Sepp seems to believe the media. Sign of the times that he seems to believe he won it fair and square when, you know, he didn’t. Having said that, still a big fan.

He cheated?

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

He cheated?

Of course not.

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

Listen, I’m stoked the Sepp Kuss won. I’m an American and a huge fan. I also think Vingegaard is a monster who at least didn’t not deserve the Velo d’Or, and I love the way Remco races, so don’t take this as me just trying to “protect” fragile Roglic. The emphasis on Roglic having taught Kuss not by actually teaching him but by illustrating how to fail and with how he framed it being better for everyone that he is gone seemed like a passive aggressive midwestern / southern style shade to me. If he were Dutch, I would not have perceived shade. Anyways, I’m not all upset about it, just passing the time here.

I’m just not sure he showed he can compete for the Tour de France, absent circumstances like in this Vuelta. I think he could sneak onto the podium if Remco collapses like in the Vuelta and Roglic crashes (neither that unlikely honestly), but Vingegaard and Pogi will put minutes on him in the ITT and I imagine drop him on at least a couple climbs. Kuss is a monster and rode with a lot of tenacity and heart, but the Vuelta did not show he is on the level of the top 3-5, IMO. He lost over a minute to Roglic in the ITT, got dropped on multiple mountains, etc.

 

[Unchained]

Listen, I’m stoked the Sepp Kuss won. I’m an American and a huge fan. I also think Vingegaard is a monster who at least didn’t not deserve the Velo d’Or, and I love the way Remco races, so don’t take this as me just trying to “protect” fragile Roglic. The emphasis on Roglic having taught Kuss not by actually teaching him but by illustrating how to fail and with how he framed it being better for everyone that he is gone seemed like a passive aggressive midwestern / southern style shade to me. If he were Dutch, I would not have perceived shade. Anyways, I’m not all upset about it, just passing the time here.

I’m just not sure he showed he can compete for the Tour de France, absent circumstances like in this Vuelta. I think he could sneak onto the podium if Remco collapses like in the Vuelta and Roglic crashes (neither that unlikely honestly), but Vingegaard and Pogi will put minutes on him in the ITT and I imagine drop him on at least a couple climbs. Kuss is a monster and rode with a lot of tenacity and heart, but the Vuelta did not show he is on the level of the top 3-5, IMO. He lost over a minute to Roglic in the ITT, got dropped on multiple mountains, etc.

Many of the best racers today and in history will tell similar stories about self pacing vs pace set by a teammate.. and those stories are not only from extensive, difficult climbs, but breakaways and time trials. With the shoe suddenly on the other foot because of the colossal cycle snafu caused by Remco paying attention to the media and his peacock feathers, he wrote Kuss off as a non factor. Let him roll away in a group of 30+ nobodys. And Sepp Kuss did win fair and square and he found himself in the bike racing dream state of being paced and supported by not 1 but 2 gran tour winners and the current TDF champion was working for Kuss not the other way around. Don't know how much sports in general you watch, the actual sport is not important, but the heavily favored obvious choice will often make a mental or physical miscalculation that causes them to get beat. All that flawed thinking does not rest on the shoulders of Remco alone, other riders who were predicted to get great results also thought that Kuss was just having a one off good day, all turned out to be wrong because he didn't crack, ever, sustained the pressure of brand new role and responsibility and held the jersey throughout.
The weird part about the gifting of the race is really just a silly argument about the personal and professional character of Roglic and Jonas who would have had to attack a teammate in the pursuit of something personal instead of the professional team overall objective. As Kuss publicly tells the media, he will intentionally try to win will he have same supporting cast? Obviously no unless Bora has a temporary transfer provision in their contract.

 

[SHAD0W93]

It was gifted in the sense that the two strongest riders didn’t race against him. Would he have won on another team, most likely not. It wasn’t gifted because he rode a very good TT and better than almost anyone thought, he dominated that breakaway, and held on at the end to not lose his lead when he was in trouble.

Gifted or not doesn’t matter, the trophy and jersey at the Kuss residence for life and he won’t care how he got it.

 

[Peter von]

It was gifted in the sense that the two strongest riders didn’t race against him. Would he have won on another team, most likely not. It wasn’t gifted because he rode a very good TT and better than almost anyone thought, he dominated that breakaway, and held on at the end to not lose his lead when he was in trouble.

Gifted or not doesn’t matter, the trophy and jersey at the Kuss residence for life and he won’t care how he got it.

Yes it is true, the whole race was dominated by Jumbo tactics. There were some weird instances when Jonas attacked, but then the other two couldn't defend either, but the big break away only went because Jumbo said it could.

And yes I think for Kuss the big takeaway was his stability and ITT performance and obviously the overall win. Afterall he was "only" gifted around 3 mins it wasn't an Óscar Pereiro win.

 

[Izzyeviel]

It was gifted in the sense that the two strongest riders didn’t race against him. Would he have won on another team, most likely not. It wasn’t gifted because he rode a very good TT and better than almost anyone thought, he dominated that breakaway, and held on at the end to not lose his lead when he was in trouble.

Gifted or not doesn’t matter, the trophy and jersey at the Kuss residence for life and he won’t care how he got it.

Roglic & Jonas were allowed to put time on him. Without Landa's heroics on Angliru, Kuss doesn't win.

Kuss still had to ride his socks off to win. How it should be.

 

[Squire]

[journalist hat on]The way Kuss himself sounds so different in text versus voice is also noticable. I can't hear his own voice reading this. It doesn't fit with the character talking in the text somehow as if the written media changed Kuss voice language too much. It doesn't sound like him. It might be the language of the journalist.
Historically the journalist also won't be the one writing the headline, nor the introduction of the article. It might have changed nowadays when media houses are more slimmed, not sure. [/journalist hat off]

Different parts of the world have different traditions when it comes to written interviews.

Being Scandinavian, I'm used to taking direct quotes from written interviews with a heavy grain of salt and/or critical reading. In the Scandinavian tradition, the journalist can take huge liberties in paraphrasing the interviewee as long as the intended message comes across correctly, even in supposedly direct quotes.

On the other hand, in America, there are very strict norms for direct quotes, which have to be more or less completely verbatim. That's why you'll find all sorts of 'uhm..', 'aah...' and various grammatical errors in written quotes from people interviewed by American media.

I'm a bit more unsure about other parts of Europe, but from my (not vast) experience reading European news sources, it seems like Italy, Britain, the Netherlands, Germany etc. is somewhere in between the Scandinavian and the American tradition. Being from GCN, this is probably also the category into which the Kuss interview falls.

Regarding headlines, in conventional newspapers (and I'd reckon much of the same applies to cycling media outlets) the front page editors (very important job in this day and age, and definitely not an area where newspapers are slimming down) are the ones tasked with presenting the article in the most appealing way (i.e. most clickable) to the readers, so the headline is usually not the work of the journalist.

 

[HelloDolly]

Says he can be co leader at the Tour in 2024

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkV5TfVMz40


And why not ...nothing wrong with a bit of ambition esp as Jonas has to get over the gravel

 

[Red Rick]

Says he can be co leader at the Tour in 2024

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkV5TfVMz40


And why not ...nothing wrong with a bit of ambition esp as Jonas has to get over the gravel

I think part of his apprehension was the stress of paying attention every day even in nervous stages. Once he made the mental switch in the Vuelta he and all his 60 kilos were in the mix in the echelons when he needed to.

It makes sense for Kuss to keep himself up there as much as he can. It will not mean he won't have to pull for Vingegaard if Vingegaard wants a hard race though. An overall weaker team would really hurt Kuss' chances though if he has to pull earlier.

 

[Oldermanish]

Listen, I’m stoked the Sepp Kuss won. I’m an American and a huge fan. I also think Vingegaard is a monster who at least didn’t not deserve the Velo d’Or, and I love the way Remco races, so don’t take this as me just trying to “protect” fragile Roglic. The emphasis on Roglic having taught Kuss not by actually teaching him but by illustrating how to fail and with how he framed it being better for everyone that he is gone seemed like a passive aggressive midwestern / southern style shade to me. If he were Dutch, I would not have perceived shade. Anyways, I’m not all upset about it, just passing the time here.

I’m just not sure he showed he can compete for the Tour de France, absent circumstances like in this Vuelta. I think he could sneak onto the podium if Remco collapses like in the Vuelta and Roglic crashes (neither that unlikely honestly), but Vingegaard and Pogi will put minutes on him in the ITT and I imagine drop him on at least a couple climbs. Kuss is a monster and rode with a lot of tenacity and heart, but the Vuelta did not show he is on the level of the top 3-5, IMO. He lost over a minute to Roglic in the ITT, got dropped on multiple mountains, etc.

A point I made last year that IMO is still relevant: Roglic recovered from a serious set of injuries and surgical repair to line up for the Giro. That, in itself was an accomplishment of disciplined training. Recovering from that sort of surgery to complete a 3 week stage race is heroic. Anything else was complete gravy.
I have a feeling he will be able to compete and will be happy to be rated a non-podium participant before the start by the cycling intelligentsia. If Kuss is smart he will not allow Roglic to wander...

 

[Red Rick]

A point I made last year that IMO is still relevant: Roglic recovered from a serious set of injuries and surgical repair to line up for the Giro. That, in itself was an accomplishment of disciplined training. Recovering from that sort of surgery to complete a 3 week stage race is heroic. Anything else was complete gravy.
I have a feeling he will be able to compete and will be happy to be rated a non-podium participant before the start by the cycling intelligentsia. If Kuss is smart he will not allow Roglic to wander...

Roglic: "Sepp you me in breakaway why not eh Jumbo won't chase me if you're there ah we're definitely equal for GC I'm totally not gonna put 3 minutes into you in the ITTs ah. Did I mention I'm tired and my legs hurt yet uh Sepp, come join me in the breakaway."

 

[VayaVayaVaya]

A point I made last year that IMO is still relevant: Roglic recovered from a serious set of injuries and surgical repair to line up for the Giro. That, in itself was an accomplishment of disciplined training. Recovering from that sort of surgery to complete a 3 week stage race is heroic. Anything else was complete gravy.
I have a feeling he will be able to compete and will be happy to be rated a non-podium participant before the start by the cycling intelligentsia. If Kuss is smart he will not allow Roglic to wander...

I was talking about Kuss on the second paragraph, not Roglic. Unclear based on your response if you saw that. I’m not fighting off Roglic.

 

[Oldermanish]

Roglic: "Sepp you me in breakaway why not eh Jumbo won't chase me if you're there ah we're definitely equal for GC I'm totally not gonna put 3 minutes into you in the ITTs ah. Did I mention I'm tired and my legs hurt yet uh Sepp, come join me in the breakaway."

Do you have a picture of him with vampire fangs and spiral eyeballs? Perfect Halloween imagery.