Serebryakov tests positive

[Ferminal]

Because his performances have gone through the roof since getting on the Euskadi program?

He was doping last year. He is an outsider and a mercenary. It says a lot more about TT1 (hi Kocjan) than EUS.

They haven't had a positive for 4 years, and that was an actual decent rider, a Basque, and a semi-leader.

 

[xrayvision]

Because his performances have gone through the roof since getting on the Euskadi program?

He was doping last year. He is an outsider and a mercenary. It says a lot more about TT1 than EUS.

They haven't had a positive for 4 years, and that was an actual decent rider, a Basque, and a semi-leader.

So since the team havent had a positive for 4 years they rides clean, got ya!

So I guess the same must apply for team Saxo...wait...no its impossible, no positive for 4 years either, but they surely are juiced up according to your other posts. I don´t get your logic Ferminal, or maybe its just biased?

 

[Ferminal]

It's not that hard to think critically is it?

Any internal doping program is likely to focus on the key riders. The internal doping program for this team, if it exists, has not produced a positive for four years.

A complete outsider who they signed for points only, tests positive, whilst not improving performance at all.

The answer is:

(a) They got Serebayakov on the internal program immediately, seeing his great potential. Not only that but they gave him a more risky program than anyone else over the last four years.

(b) Serebayakov was already a doper, whose methods were not sophisticated enough to avoid an AAF (or he was just unlucky).

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Somehow teams must be held accountable when riders gets popped. Firing a rider and issuing a press release just isn't good enough moving forward imo.

Deduct 100 sporting points from the team's ranking at year end for every time a dummy decides to juice. Transparent and easy to follow for stakeholders.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

It's not that hard to think critically is it?

Any internal doping program is likely to focus on the key riders. The internal doping program for this team, if it exists, has not produced a positive for four years.

A complete outsider who they signed for points only, tests positive, whilst not improving performance at all.

The answer is:

(a) They got Serebayakov on the internal program immediately, seeing his great potential. Not only that but they gave him a more risky program than anyone else over the last four years.

(b) Serebayakov was already a doper, whose methods were not sophisticated enough to avoid an AAF (or he was just unlucky).

Also worth noting that here are the races where Serebryakov picked up his results that gave him those UCI points:
- 2 stages of the Five Rings of Moscow in 2011 (2.2)
- 5th in Kuurne-Bruxelles-Kuurne 2012 (1.1)
- a stage, 2 2nds and a 5th in the Tour de Korea 2012 (2.2)
- winning the Philadelphia International Criterium (1.HC)
- a 2nd and a 3rd in stages of the Tour of Elk Grove (2.1)
- 4th in a stage of the Tour du Poitou Charentes (2.1)
- 2 stages and a 3rd in stages of the Tour of China I (2.1)
- 2 stages and 3 more top 5s in stages of the Tour of China II (2.1)
- 3 wins and 3 2nds in stages of the Tour of Hainan (2.HC)
- 2 stages and 2 stage podiums of the Tour of Taihu Lake (2.1)

Apart from KBK, how many of those races are likely to have the same level of testing as World Tour events, and how likely is it that a breakout rider for Team Type 1 is going to be singled out for random OOC testing in comparison to those in the World Tour? Half of those points are more or less at the end of the season (Sept/Oct) in races in China, that might serve in future as the ranking points bonanza for riders like Serebryakov to get themselves a WT contract.

If we look at his CQ points tallies, too, there is a HUGE spike in 2012 going from below 1000 in the rankings to the top 100. Yet this season, he has barely finished a race. Unlikely that a guy who was picking up 500+ CQ points clean goes to a team like Euskaltel and starts doping in order to DNF every major race he enters, and to perform worse than he did last year with Team Type 1 when it comes to the races he actually makes it to the end of (14th in the sprint at Pino Cerami, 22nd at the Worst Race in the World®). Euskaltel may or may not have a doping program, but realistically if they do Aleksandr Serebryakov will have been peripheral to it at best. More likely he came into the team a doper, the team didn't ask and didn't expect to be told, and Serebryakov looked after himself - not very well - when it came to not testing positive.

 

[the asian]

Somehow teams must be held accountable when riders gets popped. Firing a rider and issuing a press release just isn't good enough moving forward imo.

Deduct 100 sporting points from the team's ranking at year end for every time a dummy decides to juice. Transparent and easy to follow for stakeholders.

That should be done only if it is proved that team wide doping took place or the team supplied or were aware of the rider doping.

otherwise it's senseless over the top punishment and if challenged could be easily overturned.

 

[roundabout]

He scored his points in **** small races.

Winning stages in Hainan or Taihu against a bunch of nobodies doesn't mean that he didn't need to dope at Euskaltel.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

He scored his points in **** small races.

Winning stages in Hainan or Taihu against a bunch of nobodies doesn't mean that he didn't need to dope at Euskaltel.

Yup, and bearing in mind the step up from 2010-11 to 2012, he probably scored his points by being a doper too.

I'm just contending, like Ferminal, that the chances are Serebryakov testing positive isn't evidence of a teamwide program at Euskaltel because if there is a team program at Euskaltel, Serebryakov was likely peripheral to it at best, probably continued with what worked for him in 2012, but got caught out by the more controlled testing in the WT.

 

[roundabout]

I am bored so his food/drink whatever was spiked to get rid of ****ty performing furriner and shame Iggy.

And the step up may have been due to being able to ride **** small races that score big CQ points. I mean, Hainan an HC, what a joke.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

That should be done only if it is proved that team wide doping took place or the team supplied or were aware of the rider doping.

otherwise it's senseless over the top punishment and if challenged could be easily overturned.

I don't understand.
How is that over the top?
In any other organisation both the individual and the entire outfit typically gets "punished" when somebody decides to go rogue.
CFO decides to cook the books? Well, bye bye CFO and the Org gets fined and punished by the stock market.

Its the responsibility of the organisation to screen and educate the people it hires.

Why would that be any different in pro cycling?

Just implement a transparent system, so stakeholders understand the risks involved.

Many teams engage with questionable riders, simply because the risk/reward warrants it. Lets change the risk/reward equation to avoid having all these dodgy characters floating around.

Same with DSs and doctors etc. Somebody gets involved with doping and banned, the team must get punished as well.

Clearly such as change can't happen without due diligence to allow teams to get their stuff in order. Perhaps from 2014?

 

[gooner]

The UCI released a statement on their website:

The UCI advised Russian rider Alexander Serebryakov that he is provisionally suspended. The decision to provisionally suspend this rider was made in response to a report from the WADA accredited laboratory in Köln indicating an Adverse Analytical Finding of EPO in a urine sample collected from him in an out of competition test on 18th March 2013.

The provisional suspension of Mr. Alexander Serebryakov remains in force until a hearing panel convened by the Russian Cycling Federation determines whether he has committed an anti-doping rule violation under Article 21 of the UCI Anti-Doping Rules.

Mr. Alexander Serebryakov has the right to request and attend the analysis of his B sample.
Under the World Anti-Doping Code and the UCI Anti-Doping Rules, the UCI is unable to provide any additional information at this time.


UCI Press Service

http://www.uci.ch/Modules/ENews/ENewsDetails.asp?id=OTE4NA&MenuId=MTI2Mjc

 

[Ferminal]

And the step up may have been due to being able to ride **** small races that score big CQ points. I mean, Hainan an HC, what a joke.

That is true but his consistency last season is a fair improvement over where he had been previously. If he began doping only this year you'd think he might at least be able to finish a classic.

But like his countrymen Shpilevskiy and Khatuntsev, probably got worse stepping up from the Continental safe haven.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am bored so his food/drink whatever was spiked to get rid of ****ty performing furriner and shame Iggy.

And the step up may have been due to being able to ride **** small races that score big CQ points. I mean, Hainan an HC, what a joke.

So you are saying that you consider a recent signing who was brought in only for the UCI points he gained at crappy races, testing positive for first-generation EPO of all things, is evidence that Euskaltel have a team-wide program?

It's not representative of that. It doesn't mean they don't have a team-wide program at Euskaltel, of course, but if they did, would a guy who they have seemingly no real plans for save for taking up a roster spot in the Belgian classics that the Basque part of the team can't be competitive, taking something readily detectable such as first generation EPO, really be a part of it? Only if they're really, really fricking stupid.

 

[gooner]

The B sample probably won't even be tested here. He seems resigned to his faith.

 

[roundabout]

Nope.

I mean, lets turn your argument the other way. Why would Serebryakov dope when he is seemingly not good enough at WT even with the dope, the testing is stricter and he will be out to make space for the next nobody with points.

Or maybe the team told him to get some results and maybe they will keep him?

 

[hrotha]

That should be done only if it is proved that team wide doping took place or the team supplied or were aware of the rider doping.

otherwise it's senseless over the top punishment and if challenged could be easily overturned.

If it was proven that the team was involved I'd expect nothing short of a licence loss.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Nope.

I mean, lets turn your argument the other way. Why would Serebryakov dope when he is seemingly not good enough at WT even with the dope, the testing is stricter and he will be out to make space for the next nobody with points.

Or maybe the team told him to get some results and maybe they will keep him?

Sure, but that would only make them a "don't ask no questions, don't get told no lies" team. Which is what I thought was probably the case with regards to their relationship to Serebryakov anyway. Maybe it's different for the core of the team, the Samus, Antóns and Nieves of the world. But we can't tell any of that from Serebryakov testing positive for EPO.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I am leaning towards the "rogue" element of the rider, doing what he had to in the more lax testing races gaining points to get the gig at a real team.

I am very curious what his profile looked like for 2011/2012, whether Eus looked at it before signing him, and how, even though the races were on the periphery, with all the wins and podiums, he managed to avoid detection all this time.

If there's testing, it follows the WADA protocols.

And my understanding is podium getters get tested.

 

[python]

as i expected, our old friend edgar... (btw, LS, it is unknown what generation edgar was detected)

curious, that he emerged in the basque team rather than katusha despite them badly lacking a native sprinter. did eki know something the basque management didn't

as to whether he doped on his own, i am inclined to ferminal's version though there is no way to know for sure yet.

also, if any team doc was involved, they would advice (and make sure) that the poor chap received at 10 pm (still undetectable by 7 am!) 10 units per kg straight into vein.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am leaning towards the "rogue" element of the rider, doing what he had to in the more lax testing races gaining points to get the gig at a real team.

I am very curious what his profile looked like for 2011/2012, whether Eus looked at it before signing him, and how, even though the races were on the periphery, with all the wins and podiums, he managed to avoid detection all this time.

If there's testing, it follows the WADA protocols.

And my understanding is podium getters get tested.

Wouldn't have had a profile for 2011. 2012 he would as TT1 were ProContinental. The understanding may be that podium getters get tested, but we also know Dan Martin tweeted there was no testing at Haut-Var or the Tour Med last year (though whether that applied to him, his team or everyone was unclear). How strict is the testing at the Tour of Taihu Lake compared to, say, the Dauphiné?

as i expected, our old friend edgar... (btw, LS, it is unknown what generation edgar was detected)

I would presume 1st.

2nd gen EPO is darbopoietin, which was so new it wasn't even banned when Johann Mühlegg tested positive for it in 2002. However, it was detectable almost straight away. I guess it could have been darbo, but that might have been named separately from being 2nd gen EPO.

3rd gen EPO is CERA, which unless something has changed, stays in the system for a long time. We're talking over a month. Therefore it was rendered mostly obsolete as soon as it was known it was testable back in 2008, with only di Luca as a known CERA positive after that year. 1st gen EPO at least breaks down very quickly so as to be undetectable, so is far less of a risk regards OOC testing than CERA.

Could it be a new generation of it, a new version or variation, DynEPO or whatever? Possibly. But I think we might have heard a bit more about it if that was the case (and it would probably not have just been reported as EPO in the announcement of the positive). If so, we could be in for a few more in the coming weeks.

 

[XlandaluzeX]

im with roundabout, team should be punished whenever a rider test positive, period

however, i d bet my moma the rider was on his own on this one, look at the facts, Euskaltel signs 8 nobodies just because of their cq points achieved all in 2nd level races (expecting no results from them), guy receives an email with the offer from Euskaltel (how serious is that) in november when hes riding in China, accepts it, flyes Spain for the team presentation + preseason concentration in january then back to Russia till end of march, missing a few belgium classics he was suposed to take part of,, problems with the visa i think was the excuse

as others posted, not saying that Euskaltel are clean or dont have a doping program, only that Serebyakov was on his own here, can´t blame the guy much, after years of misery it was his big opportunity

but again, team is responsible for its riders, its their fault not-knowing or not-caring bout it and they should be punished

Euskaltel, just for laughts keep up the fun Galdeano

 

[TheBean]

If only your sarcasm were as humorous to others as it is to you. But, it isn't.

 

[JRanton]

Wouldn't have had a profile for 2011. 2012 he would as TT1 were ProContinental. The understanding may be that podium getters get tested, but we also know Dan Martin tweeted there was no testing at Haut-Var or the Tour Med last year (though whether that applied to him, his team or everyone was unclear). How strict is the testing at the Tour of Taihu Lake compared to, say, the Dauphiné?


I would presume 1st.

2nd gen EPO is darbopoietin, which was so new it wasn't even banned when Johann Mühlegg tested positive for it in 2002. However, it was detectable almost straight away. I guess it could have been darbo, but that might have been named separately from being 2nd gen EPO.

3rd gen EPO is CERA, which unless something has changed, stays in the system for a long time. We're talking over a month. Therefore it was rendered mostly obsolete as soon as it was known it was testable back in 2008, with only di Luca as a known CERA positive after that year. 1st gen EPO at least breaks down very quickly so as to be undetectable, so is far less of a risk regards OOC testing than CERA.

Could it be a new generation of it, a new version or variation, DynEPO or whatever? Possibly. But I think we might have heard a bit more about it if that was the case (and it would probably not have just been reported as EPO in the announcement of the positive). If so, we could be in for a few more in the coming weeks.

It will interesting to see how JTL gets on now he's in the blood passport system. Early signs aren't good.

 

[del1962]

Somehow teams must be held accountable when riders gets popped. Firing a rider and issuing a press release just isn't good enough moving forward imo.

Deduct 100 sporting points from the team's ranking at year end for every time a dummy decides to juice. Transparent and easy to follow for stakeholders.

Agree with this, they Euskatel hired a rider purely for his points, without finding out about any potential doping issues, he won't have been doping under Euskatel, but the hiring a rider without any real regard to their doping or not should have consequences

 

[argyllflyer]

It will interesting to see how JTL gets on now he's in the blood passport system. Early signs aren't good.

Or the less conspiratorial view would be that he targeted early season races when most were racing to train and thus stood out. Injury allowed him to disappear for a few months and he peaked again for ToB. Going by what I've heard, he was finding it tough to adapt to the role he's got at Sky but later signs do look good - riding on the front in a depleted Sky team at Pais Vasco last week. They even got him a sky blue rainjacket to stand out from the crowd!