Sergio Henao

[Dear Wiggo]

How many positives for Epo in 2012 in OOC Adams testing?

0.11%

They would need to be pretty dumb to glow during ADAM's hour

If they are getting warned 2 hours in advance, I'd say it's no wonder the % caught OOC is lower.

 

[hfer07]

some clarifications before you guys continue to make up stuff, throw smoke all around:

1) The October timeframe was made up in this forum. It never came from official announcements.
2) ADAMS is the computerized system where each rider needs to register, to show when they will be available each day for testing. Henao had already been told to stay at home from 6am to 7am by the ADAMS system.
3) It is VERY EASY to get lost in Colombia. I know you won't believe this, but Colombia has roads, has cars, has traffic, has GPS, but when you start going into the mountains, there are no street signs. You make the wrong turn, no possible U-turns or you go on a wet area, you get stuck in a mud road. 2 hours is very possible.
4) Henao doesn't have to flush his system out. If he was 'detoxing', he would have done it already for the 6am-7am time period. Waiting 2 hours won't make a difference. They were lost, they could have been there at any time, ended it up being 2 hours. Henao didn't have an issue waiting. Why should he?
5) The blood value we are talking about wasn't steroids, wasn't the new test, it was a standard test, specifically, his hemocrit level was over 50%. This has happened to him in the past, in 2007, where he had to sit out until it came back down.
6) Colombians in altitude have a level around 50%-52%. This has been documented in many places, outside cycling. A number over 50% does not mean EPO
7) It has also been documented why EPO wouldn't help people with such high numbers. If they are naturally at 48%, 49%, they only get a 1% increase before they are stopped from riding. Note that this does not mean doping by any organization, just means you are not allowed to ride.
8) Supposedly Armstrong was around 38%, which allowed EPO to give him a 12% boost in oxygen. Cases like this is why the "everyone dopes" argument is invalid. It helps some people a lot more than others

sorry dude- but you're clearly the only One here making up stories with all that rubbish you just posted. As I have stated previously- the matter that troubles everyone here is how SKY is manipulating the situation-Including Sergio-since day one, with the lack of specifics & the deceiving PR-but now that Sergio himself has spoken out-perhaps naively & damage self inflicting if you like- with an "specific test date, time and its nature along all the circumstances around it" -there is no room to add up or find a "fitting story"- Again- as I have said since the very beginning- Sergio's case is about a serious "flaw" on the "Sky Programme" and they're desperate to trace it, work around it & come with a solution that ultimately makes the Team-not Sergio-look "clean" -as he himself explained...

 

[DirtyWorks]

Apart from the fact that point 1) is blatantly wrong, as mentioned before, .

So, how do you explain a great number of cyclists were on epo yet not all got the same increases in performance? Please be specific.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

So, how do you explain a great number of cyclists were on epo yet not all got the same increases in performance? Please be specific.

I think you quoted the wrong post? He's saying no, the clinic did not make up the October timeline.

 

[HSNHSN]

I think you quoted the wrong post? He's saying no, the clinic did not make up the October timeline.

At least that's what I was trying to say, indeed. Maybe I should've added point 1) in my quotation. I hoped it would be clear this way as well, but apparently it wasn't. I'll try to be more careful in future.

 

[DirtyWorks]

At least that's what I was trying to say, indeed. Maybe I should've added point 1) in my quotation. I hoped it would be clear this way as well, but apparently it wasn't. I'll try to be more careful in future.

It wouldn't be the first post read wrong! No worries.

 

[DirtyWorks]

3) If a tester gets lost he should just cancel that days test and instead try again the next day. Without telling Henao about it.

Except, think about it from the Doping Authority's perspective. Train some kind of contractor or hire to do the collection according to their standards, and send them out expenses paid. Letting them be on the payroll for another day gets expensive fast.

I know that's pedantic, but very likely how the anti-doping authority is looking at the sample collection task.

 

[bewildered]

How many positives for Epo in 2012 in OOC Adams testing?

0.11%

They would need to be pretty dumb to glow during ADAM's hour

In OOC tests where a test was actually recorded during the ADAMS hour. How many days of the year does that happen to the average rider?

I don't think you can blood bank or dope ooc without something showing up during an ADAMS hour test. A rider takes the risk but it is a very small % risk. If he is warned in advance there is effectively no risk.

What are the rules on missed ABP tests? Is there a 3 strike rule like for ooc tests?

 

[manafana]

its a hot potatoes anyway , anyone raised at high altitude and training their in off season is likely to have very different base levels to someone born and raised at sea level. Isn't it widely said that Colombians suffer in the 90s and after due to fact their advantage of altitude training all their life was eroded by drugs doing the same thing for rider.

 

[hfer07]

now is "January 17th"

This story keeps getting better & better

http://www.elcolombiano.com/BancoCo...go_paranoico/henao_esto_es_algo_paranoico.asp

¿Cuáles son los valores anormales que dice el Sky aparecieron en el control?
"Me dijeron que presentaba una variación en el hematocrito y en los reticulocitos".

What are the abnormal values that SKY said they appeared on the test?
They (SKY) told me there is a variation in the Hematocrit & reticulocyte levels

¿Y cómo se puede explicar esto?
"El equipo es el que lleva el pasaporte biológico interno. Vieron que salió alto el hematocrito y bajos los reticulocitos, y por esa razón se alarmaron. Notaron que en el control del 17 de enero, no se seguía la misma curva de otros exámenes. Nadie me acusa y no he salido acusado. El equipo me quiere ayudar, pero también necesito que las cosas se hagan rápido y no perder tiempo, ya que lo mío es estar en competencia".

How do you explain that?
My team is the one in charge of the Internal Bio Passport. They noticed a high Hematocrit level with a low reticulocyte- that's the reason the got alarmed. They noticed that a control done on "January 17th" did not present the same curve pattern as the previous controls. Nobody has accused me of any wrongdoing. The team wants to help me out, but I do need to get things done fast and stop wasting time, since my business is to compete.

 

[Ferminal]

Ryo,

You are wrong on several points of fact there.

Just as an example, all my blood parameters return to 'normal' about as quickly 2-3 weeks after donating blood. Certain parameters of the blood return even faster than that.

Do you know what your retics are ~1 week out?

I'm sure someone has done a study on this but I've never really bothered looking.

 

[hrotha]

The January 17th date allows for the test to have taken place in Colombia (he explicitly says the Spanish guy from WADA had trouble finding his Rionegro house), so it makes more sense. But then, where does the February 14th date come from?

Also, he says his previous test was done on October 30th, IN YER FACE.

 

[jens_attacks]

6) Colombians in altitude have a level around 50%-52%. This has been documented in many places, outside cycling. A number over 50% does not mean EPO

i understood that hemoglobin is nowadays more important in these profiles,not hematocrit.

no one will chase you if you are above 50 hematocrit. if you have natural hematocrit 48, and you are spotted with 52 let's say(i had these kind of variations in my tests) there is nothing suspicious, it can be explained. but if you have 56 and very low retics, well you gotta be more careful with the next bags.

 

[Ferminal]

I think the only solution to this confusion is to immediately clear the air by publishing all his blood data for the previous three years.

 

[peloton]

This is very confusing, who is coming up with all these different dates?

 

[MartinGT]

Someone is telling porkie pies somewhere.

Sky bricking it?

 

[MartinGT]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/henao-speaks-about-team-sky-withdrawing-him-from-competition

 

[RobbieCanuck]

Not really Sky's job is it?

What I was getting at is Sky has a problem with this test result and they seem to be keen to put some sort of spin on it suggesting that Henao's haematocrit may be normally higher at high altitude.

If I owned Sky I would want to appear to the anti-doping boys I am cooperating and at the same time suggest some plausible innocent explanation, that requires some time to investigate.

The problem we have as with most of cycling is getting clear and transparent information about the why, where, when, what and how come of the test.

 

[Ferminal]

How long before the CWO rumours commence?

 

[neineinei]

Poor Sky. They forgot to translate the memo with the new deffinitions of "transparancy" and "clear message" into Spanish. Henao still thinks the words means what they used to mean when he grew up.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Either Jan 14 or Feb 14 makes no difference - high Hct + low retics == blood transfusion, but that makes no good sense for either of those dates, given he wasn't competing?



Low Hct + high retics = just banked some blood, body recovering. That's what you do in your off season.

 

[King Boonen]

You know, the main problem that I have with this, is that research does exist...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24654529

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24618341

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24513612

Look, there's even some research into althletes...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282216

Then there's research for non-natives to compare against...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282208

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282211

How it affects oxygen uptake...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282203

Genetic studies...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24201705

Altitude exposure from a viewpoint of the ABP...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24115763

Human development over time in high-altitude natives...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24065360



And anyone who has got this far and bothered to click all the links will see a lot of the papers are from this year or last year (All of them maybe, I've lost track now). I have not gone digging into back-issues to find these papers, they were a simple pubmed search away.

Now, this research may not be specific to elite level cyclists who race in Europe, train at altitude and holiday at altitude at home, but to say there is no research in this area is pretty disingenuous, and that's being kind...

 

[gospina]

sorry dude- but you're clearly the only One here making up stories with all that rubbish you just posted. As I have stated previously- the matter that troubles everyone here is how SKY is manipulating the situation-Including Sergio-since day one, with the lack of specifics & the deceiving PR-but now that Sergio himself has spoken out-perhaps naively & damage self inflicting if you like- with an "specific test date, time and its nature along all the circumstances around it" -there is no room to add up or find a "fitting story"- Again- as I have said since the very beginning- Sergio's case is about a serious "flaw" on the "Sky Programme" and they're desperate to trace it, work around it & come with a solution that ultimately makes the Team-not Sergio-look "clean" -as he himself explained...

I LOL'd on that. This is the clinic & conspiracies. Everyone makes stuff up
I'm not the only one. I can say I speculated, but really, it's the same thing.
It's like proving ghosts don't exist. You can't. Same with Sergio. No one can say he didn't dope. We can agree that he may end up not testing positive, which isn't the same as being negative

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Henao's interview:

http://www.eltiempo.com/deportes/ci...ao-hablo-de-su-aislamiento-del-sky_13723957-4

oh lol! must people here fele like idiots now saying the sky press director is the one to trust, while henao is now telling a completely different and much more logical story. the whole never tested ooc in colombia can now go out of the window as well

 

[zigmeister]

What does the WADA testing time window have to do with anything.

What a poorly written article by Cycling News, something lost in translation, and it is easy to translate Spanish to English.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/henao-speaks-about-team-sky-withdrawing-him-from-competition