Sergio Henao

[Kokoso]

I don't know if you have noticed, but the graph is from 2010. EBH was the talent together with Sagan. Sure he's almost mediocre now, but hindsight is always hindsight...

I couldn't agree more. Only wanted to point out that not everybody who is promising is super talented. Or maybe it's just about what someone considers super talented.

 

[maltiv]

I couldn't agree more. Only wanted to point out that not everybody who is promising is super talented. Or maybe it's just about what someone considers super talented.

In 2008, Brian Holm said EBH was the most talented rider he had ever worked with. Brailsford also said in 2010 that EBH had "the best test results on the team by far". So physically, there's little doubt that he's super-talented...

Unfortunately he just doesn't have the mentality (anymore) to win races. He's extremely uncomfortable with pressure and enjoys being a domestique. What a wasted career.

 

[TailWindHome]

EBH is the Carlo Cudicini of cycling.

 

[neineinei]

Graph is one thing and actual results another. Today super talented EBH did not deliver - again.

The graph is based on an interview with Brailsford. It was Brailsford who said he was talented. After four years at Sky he is a domestique. You are raising the same question as Kimmage asked at Skys press conferance before last years Tour. Then everybody at Sky got upset.

 

[Justinr]

The graph is based on an interview with Brailsford. It was Brailsford who said he was talented. After four years at Sky he is a domestique. You are raising the same question as Kimmage asked at Skys press conferance before last years Tour. Then everybody at Sky got upset.

So are you saying that just because he is a domestique he isn't talented?

 

[neineinei]

So are you saying that just because he is a domestique he isn't talented?

If you read this (off topic) EBH-part of the thread you will see that the only one questioning EBHs talent here is Kokoso.

What is being questioned by others is Sky's talent development.

But let's get back to topic, Henao and Sky's exciting new medical research project in Colombia. Is it about steorids or haematological issues? Will they have to hire another doctor now that they (probably) have sent one for eight weeks to Colombia?

 

[Justinr]

If you read this (off topic) EBH-part of the thread you will see that the only one questioning EBHs talent here is Kokoso.

What is being questioned by others is Sky's talent development.

But let's get back to topic, Henao and Sky's exciting new medical research project in Colombia. Is it about steorids or haematological issues? Will they have to hire another doctor now that they (probably) have sent one for eight weeks to Colombia?

Given we dont know the exact issue with the test that, incidentally isnt an issue for whatever governing body didnt call it out, we will probably have to wait the 2 months for it to either blow over or blow up. Which means this thread will either peter out or will become the next front in the pro/anti sky war of words - not sure everyone has the stamina for another thread ...

I've posted some thoughts earlier on this but like most other posts its pure speculation.

 

[MatParker117]

The graph is based on an interview with Brailsford. It was Brailsford who said he was talented. After four years at Sky he is a domestique. You are raising the same question as Kimmage asked at Skys press conferance before last years Tour. Then everybody at Sky got upset.

EBH has done pretty well by most riders standards at Sky. He's won his home tour twice, won two TDF stages, Eneco Tour, GP Quest France, Vattenfall, Worlds Silver & a bunch of other stages & races.

 

[lllludo]

EBH has done pretty well by most riders standards at Sky. He's won his home tour twice, won two TDF stages, Eneco Tour, GP Quest France, Vattenfall, Worlds Silver & a bunch of other stages & races.

I don't agree. The guys who have really performed pretty well, surpassing their predicted potential at SKY are mostly british: Wiggins, Froome, Thomas, Stannard. Next "gems" : Swift and Kennaugh.
Only a few exceptions though: Porte, the Bielorussians (2 guys who learnt the job in Italy with Fassa Bartolo and Tinkof) and the Colombians. The first 2 are being discussed regularly in the Clinic and for the later Henao is being "withdrawn from the race program" because of irregular blood values.
Other riders including EBH have normal performances.

 

[del1962]

I don't agree. The guys who have really performed pretty well, surpassing their predicted potential at SKY are mostly british: Wiggins, Froome, Thomas, Stannard. Next "gems" : Swift and Kennaugh.
Only a few exceptions though: Porte, the Bielorussians (2 guys who learnt the job in Italy with Fassa Bartolo and Tinkof) and the Colombians. The first 2 are being discussed regularly in the Clinic and for the later Henao is being "withdrawn from the race program" because of irregular blood values.
Other riders including EBH have normal performances.

Hmm, let me sum up your argument,

the guys who performed well are British (actually two even though one had podiumed at the tour before joining Sky I will add two in too make the argument look better), except a long list of other riders who I will make some excuse for, anyway this helps me make the facts fit my preconceived argument.

 

[BYOP88]

Hmm, let me sum up your argument,

the guys who performed well are British (actually two even though one had podiumed at the tour before joining Sky I will add two in too make the argument look better), except a long list of other riders who I will make some excuse for, anyway this helps me make the facts fit my preconceived argument.

Del, how clean do you think the 2009 Tour was?

Given the original GC before Armstrong was thrown out 1,5,8 have all served bans for doping. The runner-up has stories of being a charger in his junior days and his brother who he's very close to has been busted. Kloden, well how he's escaped a ban I'll never know. Then there's Nibali and Kreuziger seems pretty clean, yes?

 

[The Hitch]

Del, how clean do you think the 2009 Tour was?

Given the original GC before Armstrong was thrown out 1,5,8 have all served bans for doping. The runner-up has stories of being a charger in his junior days and his brother who he's very close to has been busted. Kloden, well how he's escaped a ban I'll never know. Then there's Nibali and Kreuziger seems pretty clean, yes?

He thinks everyone doped but Wiggins. Wiggins who did the Giro and only decided a month before the tour to even ride for gc, despite the fact that he was going to be a domestique anyway, beat out a bunch of top gc riders, 3 of whom have TDF podiums in their palmares, who had been targetting the race all year, saving for it, AND were on massive doping programmes. Wiggins rocks up off the beach and beats them due to hard work even though he didn't actually put in that much hard work (what is a month?), and clean.

My god how do people believe this ****?

 

[DirtyWorks]

Other riders including EBH have normal performances.

Let's be fair to both EBH and Henao, they have *good* World Tour results. Yeah, the federation's anti-doping is theater, but on results alone, EBH and Henao have earned their spots on a WT team.

Win the local criterium's elite field event and get back to us about how EBH and perhaps Henao are soft.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I don't agree. The guys who have really performed pretty well, surpassing their predicted potential at SKY are mostly british: Wiggins, Froome, Thomas, Stannard. Next "gems" : Swift and Kennaugh.
Only a few exceptions though: Porte, the Bielorussians (2 guys who learnt the job in Italy with Fassa Bartolo and Tinkof) and the Colombians. The first 2 are being discussed regularly in the Clinic and for the later Henao is being "withdrawn from the race program" because of irregular blood values.
Other riders including EBH have normal performances.

The bold is supposition.
Unusual test results, that may or may not be blood. As one theory has it, they could be steroid passport related.

 

[Catwhoorg]

CQ wise.

EBH 2009 was 6th (HTC)
2010 was 16th
2011 was 11th
2012 was 6th
2013 was 50th (but missing a ton of time due to a fractured scapula will do that)

Looking at Eddies time at sky he has developed, and is one of the top riders in the world. He seems to do this more by consistent placing than outright wins though. (2012 though he did get a few)

 

[Ventoux Boar]

CQ wise.

EBH 2009 was 6th (HTC)
2010 was 16th
2011 was 11th
2012 was 6th
2013 was 50th (but missing a ton of time due to a fractured scapula will do that)

Looking at Eddies time at sky he has developed, and is one of the top riders in the world. He seems to do this more by consistent placing than outright wins though. (2012 though he did get a few)

If you were to be cheeky, you'd put him in Hitch's basket of unfulfilled riders: all engine, no palmares.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I'd love for him to actually win more, he VERY nearly beat Cav on the Champs in 2011.

He does seem to have lost some of his top end speed though.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

"we're supportive of their programme AND the approach to it AND to suspend the rider."

The UCI are supportive of Sky's decision to suspend Henao. I pointed this out to you 2 days ago but you ignored it.

that doesn't mean anything. like I said read my explanation of how that happens everywhere.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Yup.....and crazy that SKY would take a chance on a rider with his history unless they fully checked him out and submitted an exception to the UCI. There is zero indication they did this.

Sky is in for a very rough few months. The JTL case is a mess. Even they think he is a doper. Add in Henao and at best they appear to have done zero due diligence on their riders. At worst......well, I am sure the folks here will point what the worst it.

no they were not. unlike jtl henao already had a alot of passport data from his cep days.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

There is a reason why I call these "conspirations". They are conspiracies that are so full of it, they are constipated...
Reality check #1: S. Henao is not even close to being the top guy at Sky. He wasn't even the top Colombian at Sky until this year. Why would Sky care for someone that is not British or Australian? No point of spending all this money to try to cover up for him (unless you throw in that this is for Froome, not Sergio).
They could care less if Sergio leaves..they may not even pick him for TDF if Wiggo is there.
Reality check #2: Sergio has only been with Sky in the WT. Doubt that he was acting as a lone wolf. Most likely, he shows some abnormal values, not enough to be flagged by the UCI (does it mean outside his biological passport?), he has no history with doping, more information or data is needed, hence a study.
Reality check #3: Sergio is not the top Colombian. He is #4 or #5. The Colombian cycling federation doesn't have the money to try to dope a nobody, since its what some are suggesting, that he has been doping for 5 years, when he was 18-19 yrs old. He wouldn't be the guy some 'hidden group' will use to dope and get results.
Reality check #4: No one can compare to Lance. Lance had US cycling backing him, he had the US Olympics backing him, was world class already at 18-19. People saw an investment opportunity in a country with plenty of money. His doping starting before his TDF days, but he was already world champ, already winning multiple races in US. Sergio won one big race, the Vuelta a Colombia. Again, not enough to have a system in place to help him dope and cover it up.
Reality check #5: UCI has new management. They want to at the LEAST to seem to be cleaner than the previous regime. A guy like Sergio is perfect to use as a scapegoat...he's young...he's well known, but he isn't de creme dela creme...if they don't want to pursue something, its because they don't see an issue enough to raise a flag...not because they can't afford another doping scandal. There is no scandal here....people would love to hang him if they could....he's expandable.

Conclusion: Sergio probably didn't dope, probably has some values that raise question marks, not flags...research is the way to go.

Now, to fuel more anti-colombian clinic ideas: The colombian cycling federation and the colombian olympic committee has been trying for YEARS to get the hematocrit levels to be raised to 52% for native people that live in altitude. There is plenty of research on that already.

you know why the federation is trying to get that limit to 52%? because almost all of colombian cycling is (has been) doped to the moon domestically. and the federation is in raul mesa's backpocket, who's team are the biggest dopers (sevilla is most horrible exmaple). however very good changes have happened this year among some of it's biggest teams. gw shimano threw everyone out after they found out their entire team and all budget were wasted on doping riders (remember a crying jonathhan millan in a major press conference admitting what he did). antioquia's new trainer has been working on his u23 riders for some years in a clean way and they are breaking through now left and right and the always very clean cep under lead of outspoken anti doper saldarriaga have become the richest team in colombia almost and gets all the best talent now. these 3 teams decided for this year to kick out all riders that were showing suspicious bloodvalues. they are doing internal blood passport and the first victirm has been antioquia's carlos ospina.

the bottomline is the trainers and sponsors especially of young talents and young riders themselves are realizing there is only one way into europe and that is the clean way. I won't stick my hand in the fire for henao. but I will for quintana as I've said before and johan chaves and some others. they are becoming more than living legends and change is on hands fortunately. some of the old colombian dinosaurs like raul mesa have to go away though and with at least time that will happen.

there are riders in colombia who are naturally above 50% yes. but not a whole lot. henao I think is one of them as he was part of bio passport even under cep. however someone like quintana has natural hematocrite of 48-49% and he's from boyaca. a guy like sevilla has maybe 40% but doping him up to 50 or even above makes him some kind of god in domestic colombian cycling.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Not everybody has Löfkvist's results at 24.

what in godsname were good results than by lovkbist at young age? most overrated talent almost ever

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

In 2008, Brian Holm said EBH was the most talented rider he had ever worked with. Brailsford also said in 2010 that EBH had "the best test results on the team by far". So physically, there's little doubt that he's super-talented...

Unfortunately he just doesn't have the mentality (anymore) to win races. He's extremely uncomfortable with pressure and enjoys being a domestique. What a wasted career.

test results are meaningless if you come from low countries. colobmians score incredible tests and their tests atcually mean something because all colombians have incredible engines and recuperation coming from altitude. while boasson hagen and also theo eltink who had incredible tests lack those enormously

 

[Justinr]

The bold is supposition.
Unusual test results, that may or may not be blood. As one theory has it, they could be steroid passport related.

you're right in that the irregular values were never clarified, however since are talking about altitude tests its probably a fair assumption its blood related.

Quick question though - it seems most people seem to be assuming that its a very high hematocrit (or similar). Is it possible that it is actually the other way round - that his hematocrit is too low / fallen off too quickly (especially for someone from altitude)? Something that the authorities wouldn't necessarily raise their eyebrows at?

 

[The Hitch]

what in godsname were good results than by lovkbist at young age? most overrated talent almost ever

I'd go for Argiro Ospina, who last year you said would be as good as Quintana

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

I'd go for Argiro Ospina, who last year you said would be as good as Quintana

I was wrong on ospina I will 100% say that. but some talents in europe also ebh I've said from yougn age they were overrated and it turned out to be right