Sergio Henao

[bewildered]

that doesn't mean anything. like I said read my explanation of how that happens everywhere.

Not why I raised it. I raised it because you said the UCI was not supporting the suspension when that was exactly what the UCI said.

A sporting authority explicitly supporting the potentially career-damaging suspension of an athlete for possible cheating, where he hasn't breached any rules whatsoever, does not happen everywhere. The exact opposite is the case.

Stop trying to change what the UCI said. It is quite a worrying statement for cyclists to hear.

 

[Gung Ho Gun]

what in godsname were good results than by lovkbist at young age? most overrated talent almost ever

Pretty decent for a 20/21 year old
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=523
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=2979
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=944
http://www.cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/race.asp?raceid=2919

 

[gospina]

Just a thought: Can it be that the reason why they haven't announced what the specific findings are is because Sky is doing a blind test (not letting Sergio know) or double-blind test (not letting Sergio and not letting the scientists testing know)?. In doing so, they only state to the scientists that they need to check, say 10 variables (we know VO2Max isn't one of them) and are hoping to see the same abnormality?

 

[Catwhoorg]

you're right in that the irregular values were never clarified, however since are talking about altitude tests its probably a fair assumption its blood related.

Quick question though - it seems most people seem to be assuming that its a very high hematocrit (or similar). Is it possible that it is actually the other way round - that his hematocrit is too low / fallen off too quickly (especially for someone from altitude)? Something that the authorities wouldn't necessarily raise their eyebrows at?

Too low does seem more likely, who would drop a blood bag for Winter training. If he is blood doping (and I'm not saying he is), a withdrawl is far more likely.


I still think its more steroid profile related. Effects of altitude on blood are fairly well known in general terms (even on altitude natives). Effects of altitude on steroid profile really are not.

 

[sniper]

Too low does seem more likely, who would drop a blood bag for Winter training. If he is blood doping (and I'm not saying he is), a withdrawl is far more likely.


I still think its more steroid profile related. Effects of altitude on blood are fairly well known in general terms (even on altitude natives). Effects of altitude on steroid profile really are not.

to be sure, most outlets, even BBC/Guardian, speak of anomalous blood values. Sky haven't come out to deny that. (not that it would be clever to do so, but still.)
doesn't proof that it's not steroid related of course.

 

[Justinr]

Not why I raised it. I raised it because you said the UCI was not supporting the suspension when that was exactly what the UCI said.

A sporting authority explicitly supporting the potentially career-damaging suspension of an athlete for possible cheating, where he hasn't breached any rules whatsoever, does not happen everywhere. The exact opposite is the case.

Stop trying to change what the UCI said. It is quite a worrying statement for cyclists to hear.

This may be down to poor reporting / translating. The UCI may be supporting taking Henao off roster while they investigate, rather than full suspension.

 

[Catwhoorg]

The whole thing is a bit of a game of Chinese whispers.

With various media outlets copying (but not verbatim as that would be plagarism) each other.

One lesson to be learned for anyone is just how fast messages go these days, and how a slightly ambiguous delivery initially, just ends up with confusing and contradictory information in news sources within a matter of hours.

Managing the media is something that is often made out to be bad, but getting a message across clearly and unambiguously is generally something to be desired.

 

[gillan1969]

Just a thought: Can it be that the reason why they haven't announced what the specific findings are is because Sky is doing a blind test (not letting Sergio know) or double-blind test (not letting Sergio and not letting the scientists testing know)?. In doing so, they only state to the scientists that they need to check, say 10 variables (we know VO2Max isn't one of them) and are hoping to see the same abnormality?

well they did a blind test on Lienders CV...or was that doubleblind

 

[lllludo]

Hmm, let me sum up your argument,

the guys who performed well are British (actually two even though one had podiumed at the tour before joining Sky I will add two in too make the argument look better), except a long list of other riders who I will make some excuse for, anyway this helps me make the facts fit my preconceived argument.

Where did you read in my post that Wiggins rode the 2009 Tour clean ?
Nevertheless you see my point. The problem has a name: BCF, the medal factory set-up by Peter Keen and Brailsford assisted by 2 former dopers you'll never see at a CIRC meeting: Boardman and Sciandri.
The "long list of other riders" is composed of 5 "overachiving" : Porte, Siutsou, Kyrienka, Uran, Henao.
Is 5 names a long list ? For UKAD, the sister entity of UK Sport that employed Peter Keen for a long time, yes it is, as the list of positive pro cyclists only goes up to 2. If JTL is condemned the list will contain 3 names.
Wooohooo !

 

[lllludo]

The bold is supposition.
Unusual test results, that may or may not be blood. As one theory has it, they could be steroid passport related.

What is monitored in the so-called steroid passport ? steroid hormons, isn't it?
Where can you find steroid hormons ? In the blood stream
So it's correct to say irregular blood values were found on Henao following an out of competition control ordered by WADA.
Team SKY trying to justify why Henao has such irregular values is an other story...

 

[roundabout]

Doesn't really look like this guy is overachieving over in Sky land

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=1993&year=0&all=0&current=0

 

[hrotha]

Doesn't really look like this guy is overachieving over in Sky land

http://cqranking.com/men/asp/gen/rider_palm.asp?riderid=1993&year=0&all=0&current=0

As I said before, a reassessment of HTC is long overdue.

 

[hfer07]

What is monitored in the so-called steroid passport ? steroid hormons, isn't it?
Where can you find steroid hormons ? In the blood stream
So it's correct to say irregular blood values were found on Henao following an out of competition control ordered by WADA.
Team SKY trying to justify why Henao has such irregular values is another story...

^ BINGO

The entire "study" PR won't have any effect until they bother revealing what is the very nature & the source of Sergio's "anomalies"-not the "altitude" excuse...

 

[Dazed and Confused]

As I said before, a reassessment of HTC is long overdue.

yep, note the link to Barloworld as well.

 

[BYOP88]

If you go to velorooms the Sky fans there have come up with the reason. It goes something like this, Henao is innocent because he rides for Sky, if he rode for Movistar etc he'd be a doper.

 

[Catwhoorg]

What is monitored in the so-called steroid passport ? steroid hormons, isn't it?
Where can you find steroid hormons ? In the blood stream
So it's correct to say irregular blood values were found on Henao following an out of competition control ordered by WADA.
Team SKY trying to justify why Henao has such irregular values is an other story...

Steroid testing is normally done on urine levels of the hormones.

 

[Ventoux Boar]

If you go to velorooms the Sky fans there have come up with the reason. It goes something like this, Henao is innocent because he rides for Sky, if he rode for Movistar etc he'd be a doper.

And here comes a tooled-up Bike Retread

 

[BYOP88]

And here comes a tooled-up Bike Retread

Check it out. Probably a forum that meets your needs. Sky are clean the others are dodgy.

 

[DirtyWorks]

So it's correct to say irregular blood values were found on Henao following an out of competition control ordered by WADA.

Maybe something has changed, but no one specified how the test got run. That these specifics are missing is a little strange, but consistent with a federation that is trying to manage doping controversy, not run a legitimate anti-doping program.

My last recollection is WADA itself does not normally run tests. They are understood by me to be a standards-setting and certifying body.

 

[Benotti69]

............

VB, Jr, Del and EnacheV

 

[Justinr]

VB, Jr, Del and EaracheV

Do i report that for you accusing me of having such a bad blue suit?

 

[Justinr]

Do i report that for you accusing me of having such a bad blue suit?

I'd rather be the guy on the left who looks a bit like Ron Jeremy, and with looks like that maybe i could have a lot of fun ...

 

[TheGame]

If you go to velorooms the Sky fans there have come up with the reason. It goes something like this, Henao is innocent because he rides for Sky, if he rode for Movistar etc he'd be a doper.

Actually, on Velorooms they have come up with the theory that this relates not to blood values but the new Steroidal element of the Biological Passport that was brought in over the winter.

Several reports have mentioned a "New UCI test" that came in over the winter, and the control samples for the new steroidal element was indeed introduced over the winter with it being added to the passport from January 1st.

Amongst things that will be included on that are Testosterone, and there are several studies showing that when going to altitude, initially, for the first few days, to anything up to a week, Testosterone levels drop significantly before rising again. So a rider tested in the first few days at Altitude could show very low T levels which then raise significantly after a few days, to a week later.

So the Velorooms members have come up with the perfectly sensible suggestion that this may be in some way related to the new Steroidal Element of the passport.

This may be a good theory, may not be. But its possible.

what have you come up with?

 

[TheGame]

What is monitored in the so-called steroid passport ? steroid hormons, isn't it?
Where can you find steroid hormons ? In the blood stream
So it's correct to say irregular blood values were found on Henao following an out of competition control ordered by WADA.
Team SKY trying to justify why Henao has such irregular values is an other story...

"Although there has already been some longitudinal profiling of Markers of steroid doping, the ABP now introduces a standardized approach to determine steroid abuse through urine sampling. Consequently, ADAMS now provides a harmonized process for both the Haematological Module and the Steroidal Module of the Athlete BiologicalPassport, following nearly identical administrative procedures. "

"2.2. Steroidal Markers
The Steroidal Module collects information on Markers of steroid doping. The Module aims to identify endogenous anabolic androgenic steroids when administered exogenously and other anabolic agents, such as selective androgen receptor modulators (SARMS) categorized under Section S1 of the Prohibited List.
The following Markers are considered within the ABP Steroidal Module, as detailed in
TD2014EAAS (Appendix D):
T/E: Testosterone/Epitestosterone ratio
T: Testosterone
E : Epitestosterone
A: Androsterone
Etio: Etiocholanolone
5-diol: 5-androstane-3,17-diol
5-diol: 5-androstane-3,17-diol
Together with the specific gravity of the urine sample, further urinary ratios of steroid
Metabolites to be considered include A/T, A/Etio, 5-diol/5-diol and 5-diol/E."

Source
http://www.wada-ama.org/Documents/S...ort/WADA-ABP-Operating-Guidelines_v4.0-EN.pdf

 

[BYOP88]

Actually, on Velorooms they have come up with the theory that this relates not to blood values but the new Steroidal element of the Biological Passport that was brought in over the winter.

Several reports have mentioned a "New UCI test" that came in over the winter, and the control samples for the new steroidal element was indeed introduced over the winter with it being added to the passport from January 1st.

Amongst things that will be included on that are Testosterone, and there are several studies showing that when going to altitude, initially, for the first few days, to anything up to a week, Testosterone levels drop significantly before rising again.

So the Velorooms members have come up with the perfectly sensible suggestion that this may be in some way related to the new Steroidal Element of the passport.

This may be a good theory, may not be. But its possible.

what have you come up with?

Dude got sloppy with his program, simple as that.

The funny thing about the theory from VR's is this (some of them are members here) they don't go that extra mile for 'dopers' not on Sky. If Henao rode for Movistar/Lampre anyone else there wouldn't be that theory on VR's he would just be another dodgy doper.