Sergio Henao

[Ryo Hazuki]

Actually, on Velorooms they have come up with the theory that this relates not to blood values but the new Steroidal element of the Biological Passport that was brought in over the winter.

Several reports have mentioned a "New UCI test" that came in over the winter, and the control samples for the new steroidal element was indeed introduced over the winter with it being added to the passport from January 1st.

Amongst things that will be included on that are Testosterone, and there are several studies showing that when going to altitude, initially, for the first few days, to anything up to a week, Testosterone levels drop significantly before rising again. So a rider tested in the first few days at Altitude could show very low T levels which then raise significantly after a few days, to a week later.

So the Velorooms members have come up with the perfectly sensible suggestion that this may be in some way related to the new Steroidal Element of the passport.

This may be a good theory, may not be. But its possible.

what have you come up with?

good post this which is rare here

 

[hrotha]

Dude got sloppy with his program, simple as that.

The funny thing about the theory from VR's is this (some of them are members here) they don't go that extra mile for 'dopers' not on Sky. If Henao rode for Movistar/Lampre anyone else there wouldn't be that theory on VR's he would just be another dodgy doper.

That double standard doesn't undermine the theory itself though.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Amongst things that will be included on that are Testosterone, and there are several studies showing that when going to altitude, initially, for the first few days, to anything up to a week, Testosterone levels drop significantly before rising again. So a rider tested in the first few days at Altitude could show very low T levels which then raise significantly after a few days, to a week later.

Just throwing this idea out, what if his T parameters didn't decline?

Also, the last thing I read on WADA's T testing is they check for failed ratio, and then might run the test to detect synthetic T based on the failed ratio.

Meaning, athletes can take T and have great effects without testing positive.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Actually, on Velorooms they have come up with the theory that this relates not to blood values but the new Steroidal element of the Biological Passport that was brought in over the winter.

Several reports have mentioned a "New UCI test" that came in over the winter, and the control samples for the new steroidal element was indeed introduced over the winter with it being added to the passport from January 1st.

Amongst things that will be included on that are Testosterone, and there are several studies showing that when going to altitude, initially, for the first few days, to anything up to a week, Testosterone levels drop significantly before rising again. So a rider tested in the first few days at Altitude could show very low T levels which then raise significantly after a few days, to a week later.

So the Velorooms members have come up with the perfectly sensible suggestion that this may be in some way related to the new Steroidal Element of the passport.

This may be a good theory, may not be. But its possible.

what have you come up with?

That's an interesting theory. You would think WADA would already be aware of such things, to the point where the rider/team didn't need to conduct an 8-week study to verify themselves. But then it is a new module, and there certainly could be problems with the testing/standards. It does make me wonder why the research onto Henao would need to take 8 weeks (not saying there's not a good reason for it).

Sky's initial press release was so vague and strange. I really think, if it's a pretty hopeful case like the theory presented above, it would help their public image to include a few more specifics about the test/parameters they are looking for, etc.

It doesn't really do either SH or the team any good to have a bunch of questions and speculation floating around. If I were them, I think I'd go ahead and clarify what parts I could, just to eliminate some of the speculation.

 

[TheGame]

Just throwing this idea out, what if his T parameters didn't decline?

Also, the last thing I read on WADA's T testing is they check for failed ratio, and then might run the test to detect synthetic T based on the failed ratio.

Meaning, athletes can take T and have great effects without testing positive.

I think for BP they just measure T and Epi-T levels. Not sure how much further they go in analysis unless there is a reason to.

But the samples over the winter were not as part of the BP and not valid as such, they took control samples from riders to establish a baseline prior to the test being introduced on 14/1/1

So its possible, if Henao, or any Colombian rider was tested soon after arriving at altitude their control sample could be low, which down the line would trigger a false positive (or a positive ) if subsequent tests showed higher levels.

Of course, should that happen, then you should be able to get the "positive" analysed for synthetic T.

 

[TheGame]

scrap that theory.

@franmillar
As per the statement the tests in questions are CADF ABP blood tests. (1)
this was the first time our altitude native athletes were tested as part of the ABP at home in Colombia. (2)
Thought that was clear in the statement, happy to clarify though, after this weekend I am not keen to engage much more. (3)

So its the first time colombian riders have been tested for the ABP in colombia.

 

[Netserk]

Well that's not as bas as my first thought (which was that the 'new test' was the first time they got OOC tested in Colombia)

It certainly makes sense why some of the Colombians go back home for long periods of time even mid season.

 

[TheGame]

@franmillar
Our athletes - not sure if other Colombians have been tested we haven't had them on our athletes before. Just to be totally clear

So, the Colombian athletes (at sky) have never had bio passport samples collected before while in colombia.

So it is blood related. Bang goes VR's Steroidal theory, but at least Fran has offered some clarification.

As you were

 

[DirtyWorks]

scrap that theory.

@franmillar
As per the statement the tests in questions are CADF ABP blood tests. (1)
this was the first time our altitude native athletes were tested as part of the ABP at home in Colombia. (2)
Thought that was clear in the statement, happy to clarify though, after this weekend I am not keen to engage much more. (3)

So its the first time colombian riders have been tested for the ABP in colombia.

Ok, so it WAS an official test and the UCI is indifferent about the apparently suspicious results. Seems legit.

Is anyone surprised the Colombian cycling federation didn't open a case? Even when the tests apparently work nothing is done. That is why the bio-passport is theater.

 

[TheGame]

Well that's not as bas as my first thought (which was that the 'new test' was the first time they got OOC tested in Colombia)

It certainly makes sense why some of the Colombians go back home for long periods of time even mid season.

And yes, sadly this will raise a lot of questions about riders who have been going "home" for extended periods.

 

[The Hitch]

I can think of one Colombian rider who went home for a very long time pre tdf, didn't do the prep races which everyone thought meant he wouldn't be 100%at the tour, and did quite well.

 

[Benotti69]

Shows that the testing really is a joke. 2 Colombians from Sky never before tested OOC in their home country over the EU winter!

 

[DirtyWorks]

I can think of one Colombian rider who went home for a very long time pre tdf, didn't do the prep races which everyone thought meant he wouldn't be 100%at the tour, and did quite well.

JADCO all over again? Basically the NADO tests to never test positive outside the country. Sky somehow gets the results and benches the guy? Bah! It makes no sense.

 

[maltiv]

Would be interesting to know if the riders who, say, train in South Africa all winter, are OOC tested...

 

[BYOP88]

Would be interesting to know if the riders who, say, train in South Africa all winter, are OOC tested...

Posted by Benotti69 in the Froome thread http://www.iol.co.za/blogs/kevin-mccallum-1.2505/too-many-doping-loopholes-1.1665441#.UzCr_Pl_uSq

 

[Mellow Velo]

I can think of one Colombian rider who went home for a very long time pre tdf, didn't do the prep races which everyone thought meant he wouldn't be 100%at the tour, and did quite well.

It's hard to look at things objectively and not come to a conclusion along these lines.
It seemed almost unique at the time.

Bad, bad news all around imo. The resurgence of Colombian cycling has added colour and excitement to the drab formulated stuff favoured by much of Europe.
If they start to struggle.......

 

[Netserk]

I can think of one Colombian rider who went home for a very long time pre tdf, didn't do the prep races which everyone thought meant he wouldn't be 100%at the tour, and did quite well.

I have a source who says he's certain that the rider in question never doped. 100% sure.





Well as sure as Ryo can be

 

[Beech Mtn]

Ok, so it WAS an official test and the UCI is indifferent about the apparently suspicious results. Seems legit.

Is anyone surprised the Colombian cycling federation didn't open a case? Even when the tests apparently work nothing is done. That is why the bio-passport is theater.

I am assuming we either (1) have a borderline odd result that isn't enough yet to open case, or (2) have an actual problem here, and SH is in the "explain yourself" phase of an ABP case (meaning it isn't an actual case yet, because he could have a good explanation for the anomaly, and the ABP experts could accept his reasoning and clear him.

Also-
If there haven't been ABP tests done in Colombia, what about CEP's testing that they volunteered for, paid into the program for? They would have very likely been tested in Colombia. Or this semantics because it wasn't a WT team.

Scratch that - Fran Millar specifically refers only to the Colombians on Team Sky, she has no idea about if there have been tests to others in Colombia.

edit-
Thanks to The Game for posting F.Millar's tweets. That clears a few things up anyway.

 

[Beech Mtn]

I can think of one Colombian rider who went home for a very long time pre tdf, didn't do the prep races which everyone thought meant he wouldn't be 100%at the tour, and did quite well.

Excuse me. Abarca riders don't dope. And if you don't believe me, we can take this OT into an appropriate thread, where I will create 12,007 sockpuppets and go 'round and 'round with you for 2,849,326 pages of posts.

Never tested positive, damnit.



(OK, not really. There are no blue and green unicorns.)

 

[The Hitch]

I have a source who says he's certain that the rider in question never doped. 100% sure.





Well as sure as Ryo can be

Damn man. Before I scrolled down there I was sure you meant Benotti.

 

[Justinr]

Ok, so it WAS an official test and the UCI is indifferent about the apparently suspicious results. Seems legit.

Is anyone surprised the Colombian cycling federation didn't open a case? Even when the tests apparently work nothing is done. That is why the bio-passport is theater.

I thought the news reports said that SKY themselves thought the results were odd, not whichever agency took / analysed it. If that is the case then you cannot legitimately draw the conclusion above.

i have speculated before that the test was within agency tolerances but surprised SKY. What i am more surprised at is that no-one has commented on it - everyone seems to have jumped to the conclusion that Henao is doping and that there is a UCI cover up.

 

[Race Radio]

I can think of one Colombian rider who went home for a very long time pre tdf, didn't do the prep races which everyone thought meant he wouldn't be 100%at the tour, and did quite well.

This........

 

[TheGame]

If there haven't been ABP tests done in Colombia, what about CEP's testing that they volunteered for, paid into the program for? They would have very likely been tested in Colombia. Or this semantics because it wasn't a WT team.

Possibly that it doesn't fit the criteria required for the BP, or the labs didn't have the standards required for BP.

Don't know.

 

[the sceptic]

I take it theres nothing new? I guess he will get the JTL treatment.

 

[BYOP88]

I take it theres nothing new? I guess he will get the JTL treatment.

Right I will check and refresh eBay, don't want to miss out on him selling his Sky stuff like I did with JTL.