Sergio Henao

[Ryo Hazuki]

some clarifications before you guys continue to make up stuff, throw smoke all around:

1) The October timeframe was made up in this forum. It never came from official announcements.
2) ADAMS is the computerized system where each rider needs to register, to show when they will be available each day for testing. Henao had already been told to stay at home from 6am to 7am by the ADAMS system.
3) It is VERY EASY to get lost in Colombia. I know you won't believe this, but Colombia has roads, has cars, has traffic, has GPS, but when you start going into the mountains, there are no street signs. You make the wrong turn, no possible U-turns or you go on a wet area, you get stuck in a mud road. 2 hours is very possible.
4) Henao doesn't have to flush his system out. If he was 'detoxing', he would have done it already for the 6am-7am time period. Waiting 2 hours won't make a difference. They were lost, they could have been there at any time, ended it up being 2 hours. Henao didn't have an issue waiting. Why should he?
5) The blood value we are talking about wasn't steroids, wasn't the new test, it was a standard test, specifically, his hemocrit level was over 50%. This has happened to him in the past, in 2007, where he had to sit out until it came back down.
6) Colombians in altitude have a level around 50%-52%. This has been documented in many places, outside cycling. A number over 50% does not mean EPO
7) It has also been documented why EPO wouldn't help people with such high numbers. If they are naturally at 48%, 49%, they only get a 1% increase before they are stopped from riding. Note that this does not mean doping by any organization, just means you are not allowed to ride.
8) Supposedly Armstrong was around 38%, which allowed EPO to give him a 12% boost in oxygen. Cases like this is why the "everyone dopes" argument is invalid. It helps some people a lot more than others

no they don't and also there's no scientific evidence of that but pls show me. it's true there are higher number of people with around 50%, but not much. you are correct on number 7 though but I don't think anyone suspects him of doing epo

 

[martinvickers]

Either Jan 14 or Feb 14 makes no difference - high Hct + low retics == blood transfusion, but that makes no good sense for either of those dates, given he wasn't competing?



Low Hct + high retics = just banked some blood, body recovering. That's what you do in your off season.

Have to admit, I'm bamboozled. None of the theories, good or naughty, entirely make sense. I'm glad he's done the interview, and he seems to have genuinely given some useful info on timelines and testing, but just can't get a a handle on the story itself, the way it's all too easy, for example, to put together the 'blood doped for the big contract' idea for JTL.

I mean, of course it's not remotely beyond possiblity he's been doping, he very well could be, but again, if it's a blood bag IN as opposed to OUT, as DW said, why then? seems entirely counterintuive.

At the risk of tweeness, Ockham's scratching his head, I think, at this one..

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You know, the main problem that I have with this, is that research does exist...

If you watch closely, DB says a lot but not much of it lines up with reality...

 

[King Boonen]

If you watch closely, DB says a lot but not much of it lines up with reality...

Yes, you might need to open up a spot for me in the 12...

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Have to admit, I'm bamboozled. None of the theories, good or naughty, entirely make sense. I'm glad he's done the interview, and he seems to have genuinely given some useful info on timelines and testing, but just can't get a a handle on the story itself, the way it's all too easy, for example, to put together the 'blood doped for the big contract' idea for JTL.

I mean, of course it's not remotely beyond possiblity he's been doping, he very well could be, but again, if it's a blood bag IN as opposed to OUT, as DW said, why then? seems entirely counterintuive.

At the risk of tweeness, Ockham's scratching his head, I think, at this one..

it's pretty clear how unlikely the clinic wants to se eit this way is that something went wrong and he wasn't doping. also makes no sense to jusrt start doping in january 2014 and none in the years prior. anyone using their brain can get that.

 

[hrotha]

We have three dates here given by Henao himself or by his agent: January 14th, January 17th and February 14th. The latter is likely a mistake for January 14th, but that still leaves us with two different and contradictory dates. So which one is it?

 

[hrotha]

it's pretty clear how unlikely the clinic wants to se eit this way is that something went wrong and he wasn't doping. also makes no sense to jusrt start doping in january 2014 and none in the years prior. anyone using their brain can get that.

Winter in the off-season happens to be a key period for any self-respecting doping program. Stop talking out of your ***, please.

 

[CycloAndy]

You know, the main problem that I have with this, is that research does exist...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24654529

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24618341

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24513612

Look, there's even some research into althletes...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282216

Then there's research for non-natives to compare against...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282208

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282211

How it affects oxygen uptake...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24282203

Genetic studies...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24201705

Altitude exposure from a viewpoint of the ABP...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24115763

Human development over time in high-altitude natives...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24065360



And anyone who has got this far and bothered to click all the links will see a lot of the papers are from this year or last year (All of them maybe, I've lost track now). I have not gone digging into back-issues to find these papers, they were a simple pubmed search away.

Now, this research may not be specific to elite level cyclists who race in Europe, train at altitude and holiday at altitude at home, but to say there is no research in this area is pretty disingenuous, and that's being kind...

Great post but the data is far from conclusive. Not that studying one elite athlete will make the data any more conclusive. The most relevant paper appears to be the Wachsmuth et al 2013 paper. This seems to suggest a change in blood values amongst 'altitude natives' returning to altitude is plausible: "At baseline, haemoglobin concentration [Hb] and Hbmass were higher in Bolivians (mean ± SD; 18.2 ± 1.0 g/dL, 12.8 ± 0.8 g/kg) than Australians (15.0 ± 0.9 g/dL, 11.6 ± 0.7 g/kg; both p ≤ 0.001). Near sea-level, [Hb] of Bolivians decreased to 16.6 ± 0.9 g/dL, but normalised upon return to 3600 m;" -This normalisation could have created the appearance of an increase.

The Sanchis-Gomar et al 2014 paper also suggests that the effects of altitude on blood parameters need to be taken into account.

 

[zigmeister]

My hemotacrit has been at 50 plenty of times, and I live at sea level. No EPO.

So, explain that UCI, WADA, Team Sky and clinic????

 

[King Boonen]

Great post but the data is far from conclusive. Not that studying one elite athlete will make the data any more conclusive. The most relevant paper appears to be the Wachsmuth et al 2013 paper. This seems to suggest a change in blood values amongst altitude natives returning to altitude is plausible: "At baseline, haemoglobin concentration [Hb] and Hbmass were higher in Bolivians (mean ± SD; 18.2 ± 1.0 g/dL, 12.8 ± 0.8 g/kg) than Australians (15.0 ± 0.9 g/dL, 11.6 ± 0.7 g/kg; both p ≤ 0.001). Near sea-level, [Hb] of Bolivians decreased to 16.6 ± 0.9 g/dL, but normalised upon return to 3600 m;" -This normalisation could have created the appearance of an increase.

The Sanchis-Gomar et al 2014 paper also suggests that the effects of altitude on blood parameters need to be taken into account.

Yes, that's actually the only paper I was aware of before I went and had a look.

I was merely pointing out that saying research doesn't exist is basically, a lie. There is a large body of comparable research. He could have said it is inconclusive, and it is as demonstrated by the differences between Tibetan and Nepalese highlanders, and pointed out that specific research into Columbian athletes is really needed to see if there are similar adaptations. But he didn't, he lied.


The thing is, the experts will know about this research. That's probably why the UCI/WADA/ADA don't have a problem with these results, there are no comparable baselines for it due to differences between training at altitude and resting at altitude (I think this was a holiday?). But that's not a reason to lie...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Great post but the data is far from conclusive. Not that studying one elite athlete will make the data any more conclusive. The most relevant paper appears to be the Wachsmuth et al 2013 paper. This seems to suggest a change in blood values amongst 'altitude natives' returning to altitude is plausible: "At baseline, haemoglobin concentration [Hb] and Hbmass were higher in Bolivians (mean ± SD; 18.2 ± 1.0 g/dL, 12.8 ± 0.8 g/kg) than Australians (15.0 ± 0.9 g/dL, 11.6 ± 0.7 g/kg; both p ≤ 0.001). Near sea-level, [Hb] of Bolivians decreased to 16.6 ± 0.9 g/dL, but normalised upon return to 3600 m;" -This normalisation could have created the appearance of an increase.

The Sanchis-Gomar et al 2014 paper also suggests that the effects of altitude on blood parameters need to be taken into account.

To normalise, you need an increase in retics to supply the additional RBCs. Having low retics looks weird. It looks like a transfusion.

 

[Catwhoorg]

In OOC tests where a test was actually recorded during the ADAMS hour. How many days of the year does that happen to the average rider?

I don't think you can blood bank or dope ooc without something showing up during an ADAMS hour test. A rider takes the risk but it is a very small % risk. If he is warned in advance there is effectively no risk.

What are the rules on missed ABP tests? Is there a 3 strike rule like for ooc tests?

There is no distinction in terms of the 3 strikes to ABP OOC, other blood OOC and OOC urine.

 

[Catwhoorg]

Do you know what your retics are ~1 week out?

I'm sure someone has done a study on this but I've never really bothered looking.

Nothing quite that close I am afraid. Was never a formal study, just happened to have blood drawn a few times 3-4 weeks after giving blood.

(Edit I should note that it was more than a few years ago, when I was in my 20's. Due to the rules in the US I cannot give blood due to living in the UK. I'm considered a risk for passing on CJD. I can't give blood in the UK when I visit, as I'm considered a risk for West Nile Virus, and have to be there for >6 months. It annoys me more than it should, as no matter how willing and happy I am to donate blood, no body seems to want it)

 

[neineinei]

My reading of Skys statement about Henao from March 21:

Sergio Henao has been taken off Team Sky’s race schedule and is set to return to Colombia for an altitude research programme.

We pulled Henao from racing after Tour of Oman, now we have to say something because his agent has told Gazzetta.

The decision was made by the team following its latest monthly governance review, a comprehensive internal process which looks at each rider’s physiological profile

This means: We looked at the latest tests in the ADAMS system and found that Henaos test from January 14 or 17 showed high hematocrit + low reticulocyte. We really don't want another ABP case, so we had to do something.

Team Principal, Sir Dave Brailsford, said: "We have strong monitoring and compliance processes in this team, with the full cooperation of riders and coaches.

Strong monitoring processes means not testing riders while they are in Colombia for a quarter of the year. Even when they know from the close monitoring of ADAMS that the anti-doping authoreties doesn't test them either.

“In our latest monthly review, our experts had questions about Sergio’s out-of-competition control tests at altitude - tests introduced this winter by the anti-doping authorities. We need to understand these readings better.

"tests introduced this winter by the anti-doping authorities" means that Sky's riders had never been OOC tested in Colombia before.

“We contacted the relevant authorities - the UCI and CADF – pointed to these readings and asked whether they could give us any insights. We've also taken Sergio out of our race programme whilst we get a better understanding of these profiles and his physiology.

This part means that the UCI's ABP program doesn't react when they get a test with high hematocrit and low reticulocyte, but that Sky were afraid it would be picked up at a later date.

“We want to do the right thing and we want to be fair. It’s important not to jump to conclusions.”

OK

Sergio Henao was born at altitude in Rionegro, Colombia and lives and trains in the region outside the race season. He returned there in October and had WADA-accredited out-of-competition tests in this period.

This part means he was tested on Oct. 30 and Jan. 14 or 17, while he was in Colombia.

Dave Brailsford continued: “Sergio was raised in the mountains, goes back in winter and lives and trains at different levels. We’ve looked as far as we can at the effects of this, but our own understanding is limited by a lack of scientific research into ‘altitude natives’ such as Sergio.

This part means Sky is afraid of a new ABP case. Despite their close monitoring they have absolutely no idea what his baselines are when he is training in Colombia, because they have never tested him there.

“We are commissioning independent scientific research to better understand the effects of prolonged periods at altitude after returning from sea level, specifically on altitude natives.

“The independent experts are looking to use WADA-accredited laboratories and Team Sky will make the data and findings available to WADA, the UCI and CADF.

This means they don't yet know if the Bogota lab can do the testing for them, so they haven't sent Henao and the experts to Colombia yet.

“Sergio will help with this programme and we expect him to be out of the race schedule for at least eight weeks. Once we have completed our assessment, we’ll decide on the right steps and give a full update.”

Unless the tests taken by us while he is training at altitude shows the same patteren as the test from January 14/17, we will ditch Henao. We will let you know some time, if you know where to look for it and understands what we are saying.

 

[Benotti69]

Have to admit, I'm bamboozled. None of the theories, good or naughty, entirely make sense. I'm glad he's done the interview, and he seems to have genuinely given some useful info on timelines and testing, but just can't get a a handle on the story itself, the way it's all too easy, for example, to put together the 'blood doped for the big contract' idea for JTL.

I mean, of course it's not remotely beyond possiblity he's been doping, he very well could be, but again, if it's a blood bag IN as opposed to OUT, as DW said, why then? seems entirely counterintuive.

At the risk of tweeness, Ockham's scratching his head, I think, at this one..

Winter in the off-season happens to be a key period for any self-respecting doping program. Stop talking out of your ***, please.

10characters

 

[CycloAndy]

To normalise, you need an increase in retics to supply the additional RBCs. Having low retics looks weird. It looks like a transfusion.

Do we know for sure he had low retics?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

This story keeps getting better & better

http://www.elcolombiano.com/BancoCo...go_paranoico/henao_esto_es_algo_paranoico.asp

¿Cuáles son los valores anormales que dice el Sky aparecieron en el control?
"Me dijeron que presentaba una variación en el hematocrito y en los reticulocitos".

What are the abnormal values that SKY said they appeared on the test?
They (SKY) told me there is a variation in the Hematocrit & reticulocyte levels

¿Y cómo se puede explicar esto?
"El equipo es el que lleva el pasaporte biológico interno. Vieron que salió alto el hematocrito y bajos los reticulocitos, y por esa razón se alarmaron. Notaron que en el control del 17 de enero, no se seguía la misma curva de otros exámenes. Nadie me acusa y no he salido acusado. El equipo me quiere ayudar, pero también necesito que las cosas se hagan rápido y no perder tiempo, ya que lo mío es estar en competencia".

How do you explain that?
My team is the one in charge of the Internal Bio Passport. They noticed a high Hematocrit level with a low reticulocyte- that's the reason the got alarmed. They noticed that a control done on "January 17th" did not present the same curve pattern as the previous controls. Nobody has accused me of any wrongdoing. The team wants to help me out, but I do need to get things done fast and stop wasting time, since my business is to compete.

Do we know for sure he had low retics?

Depends on your definition of "sure".

 

[TheGame]

the whole never tested ooc in colombia can now go out of the window as well

source? link?

If you mean "since i got here i have been tested 60 times", he means "since i joined sky".

It is a fact that no ABP samples were collected in colombia from Henao by colombian testers prior to 2013

If you have evidence to prove otherwise please feel free to share it.

 

[Merckx index]

Have to admit, I'm bamboozled. None of the theories, good or naughty, entirely make sense. I'm glad he's done the interview, and he seems to have genuinely given some useful info on timelines and testing, but just can't get a a handle on the story itself, the way it's all too easy, for example, to put together the 'blood doped for the big contract' idea for JTL.

I mean, of course it's not remotely beyond possiblity he's been doping, he very well could be, but again, if it's a blood bag IN as opposed to OUT, as DW said, why then? seems entirely counterintuive.

At the risk of tweeness, Ockham's scratching his head, I think, at this one..

Riders don't transfuse only before a race. Since refrigerated blood is only good for a few weeks (and most riders probably can't afford to separate plasma from cells and freeze), blood has to be used within a few weeks of when it was withdrawn. Assuming the initial withdrawal occurred in the offseason (because less likely to be tested and because the detrimental effects won't affect a key race), the rider would store the blood refrigerated for a few weeks, then transfuse it, followed by taking out more, which is now fresh and can be stored for another few weeks.

In this way, the first withdrawal can occur when it is least inconvenient, while subsequent withdrawals--closer to racing season--are balanced by transfusions. Moreover, in order to reduce the detrimental effects on training of withdrawal, riders typically withdraw a small portion the first time, then transfuse it later and simultaneously withdraw a somewhat larger amount. In this way, they work up gradually to the desired volume for transfusion for a targeted race, without ever having to make a net withdrawal of that entire volume.

If he followed each transfusion with immediate withdrawal, there should be no effect on parameters, or maybe a slight decrease in HT and increase in retics if the amount withdrawn was larger than the amount transfused. But if he waited a few days between transfusion and withdrawal--to let his physiology adjust to the transfused cells, and/or perhaps to delay starting the clock on the next refrigerated storage to fit his schedule--then during this period he would test for an increased HT and reduced retics.

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

Winter in the off-season happens to be a key period for any self-respecting doping program. Stop talking out of your ***, please.

so why would he start in winter 2014 all of a sudden?

 

[Ryo Hazuki]

source? link?

If you mean "since i got here i have been tested 60 times", he means "since i joined sky".

It is a fact that no ABP samples were collected in colombia from Henao by colombian testers prior to 2013

If you have evidence to prove otherwise please feel free to share it.

pls provide any evidence of this. I know for a fact from colombian wt riders (not henao and uran) they've been tested out of competition in colombia by uci

 

[Benotti69]

pls provide any evidence of this. I know for a fact from colombian wt riders (not henao and uran) they've been tested out of competition in colombia by uci

Got a link?

Got a link to a credited lab to test for ABP?

 

[TomasC]

He could have come home to Colombia in October, right after that do the 1st test with not-so-high HCT (still corresponding to him having spent whole season in Europe).
Then he was 3 months in altitude, plenty of time to normalise the HCT to his altitude level. This involves high reticulocyte count but probably only in the phase when the HCT is going up?
So at the end of those 3 months he has his natural-high-altitude HCT but normal retics.
That's when he is tested again (January 17th test).
So if you compare his tests from January and October, you have an increase in HCT but more or less same retics.

Well but if it was that easy surely you wouldn't need any altitude-natives research?

 

[hrotha]

so why would he start in winter 2014 all of a sudden?

Who says he started in 2014 all of sudden?

 

[TheGame]

pls provide any evidence of this. I know for a fact from colombian wt riders (not henao and uran) they've been tested out of competition in colombia by uci

But NOT for the Ahtletes Biological passport.

Sky have already confirmed that none of their Colombian natives have ever been tested for the ABP while in Colombia prior to this winter.

WADA documents presented earlier in the thread clearly show that the Bogota Lab was not verified for ABP sampling in 2012.

There may well have been tests by Colombian anti doping on riders in Colombia,

BUT

The colombian native cyclists at Team Sky have never been tested for the purposes of the ABP while in Colombia, prior to this winter.

The sources are in the thread. Go back and check.

There is a difference between a) being tested OOC while in Colombia, and b) having samples taken for the ABP while in Colombia. The Bogota lab was not verified for ABP prior to 2013. Check with WADA.