Shack Stalemate Sabotages Licence Hopes?

[Mellow Velo]

So, once again, we have hit an impass. Vino and Astana having announced a new, long term sponsorship deal, now pull the rug out from underneath Bruyneel and most of Radio Shack's Astana poaches.
ALL the riders still under contract are going nowhere, until they have served their time, or a solution is found.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-bruyneel-not-out-yet

Seems it's down to Pat to bend and invent some rules, pronto.
First step will be to revoke Astana's new licence, but, conversely, he can't issue a PT licence to a managerless Shack, who's roster isn't kosher.

This dispute continues to drag on and on.....

 

[Publicus]

So, once again, we have hit an impass. Vino and Astana having announced a new, long term sponsorship deal, now pull the rug out from underneath Bruyneel and most of Radio Shack's Astana poaches.
ALL the riders still under contract are going nowhere, until they have served their time, or a solution is found.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/astana-bruyneel-not-out-yet

Seems it's down to Pat to bend and invent some rules, pronto.
First step will be to revoke Astana's new licence, but, conversely, he can't issue a PT licence to a managerless Shack, who's roster isn't kosher.

This dispute continues to drag on and on.....

Pure drama. But at least if Astana is serious about retaining its Pro Tour status and competing, these steps make sense. Rast, Zubeldia, Kloden and Popo would make a decent nucleus for the team (though if I were AC, I wouldn't trust Popo for minute). If they in fact have a manager to step in for JB, then it doesn't look like we'll be seeing the Shack Attack! after all.

 

[pmcg76]

If Astana are serious about challenging for the Tour next year, I cannot see them just releasing the aforementioned riders. If this happens, then it puts a huge hole in the RadioShack team and leaves two teams with vey similar squads.

AC, Klodi, Zubeldia, Rast, Navarro, Noval(No Popo) versus
LA, LL, Brajkovic, Horner, Paulinho,

Jeez, just looking at it like this, Astana could have a stronger GC team than the Shack.

The only way I can see this being resolved is Astana having their ProTour licence revoked and all the riders including AC being released which is what I think will happen.

 

[Publicus]

If Astana are serious about challenging for the Tour next year, I cannot see them just releasing the aforementioned riders. If this happens, then it puts a huge hole in the RadioShack team and leaves two teams with vey similar squads.

AC, Klodi, Zubeldia, Rast, Navarro, Noval(No Popo) versus
LA, LL, Brajkovic, Horner, Paulinho,

Jeez, just looking at it like this, Astana could have a stronger GC team than the Shack.

The only way I can see this being resolved is Astana having their ProTour licence revoked and all the riders including AC being released which is what I think will happen.

I think you are right. There is FAR too much on the line right now for the UCI, ASO in terms of sponsorship and viewership ratings to allow Astana to essentially muck up the situation. Sure Astana has a new sponsor, but it's not a global marketer like Radio Shack, Nissan, Nike, etc. (not defending them or suggesting they are better). And whatever you feel about LA, the drama with AC and LA for next year will drive ratings big time. Astana waited too long to play hardball.

 

[Race Radio]

I think you are right. There is FAR too much on the line right now for the UCI, ASO in terms of sponsorship and viewership ratings to allow Astana to essentially muck up the situation. Sure Astana has a new sponsor, but it's not a global marketer like Radio Shack, Nissan, Nike, etc. (not defend them or suggest they are better). And whatever you feel about LA, the drama with AC and LA for next year will drive ratings big time. Astana waited too long to play hardball.

You make a good point, but what if AC is stuck at Astana next year? They will need a team to support him.

 

[sherer]

i think if AC is at Astana then the other riders can't leave either and I suspect they will do a deal with JB so he can leave and join the shack but can't sign any Astana riders for X years

 

[pmcg76]

You make a good point, but what if AC is stuck at Astana next year? They will need a team to support him.

Correct me if I am wrong but if Astana dont get a PT license, then AC is free to join whoever he wants. If they get a PT license, they will fight harder to keep the Shackers on board.

 

[Beech Mtn]

This whole thing is going to end up at the CAS or some other court. UCI may try to revoke Astana's license, but the Kazakhs will likely go over their heads and fight it out in court.

Radio Shack is not a global sponsor. Their main focus is to sponsor Lance (moreso than the team), in my opinion, using him for ads in the US, and couldn't give a darn about cycling in general or the rest of the calendar. It's all about the Tour and LA having a high profile for American fans, I think. Really, I'm not sure why Team Shack even want a ProTour license. It's just extra expense for them, and they don't need it. ASO will certainly invite Lance to the Tour.

 

[Race Radio]

Correct me if I am wrong but if Astana dont get a PT license, then AC is free to join whoever he wants. If they get a PT license, they will fight harder to keep the Shackers on board.

I assume that is correct.

 

[Mellow Velo]

I think the Hog as speculated that this may well happen on Thursday, with the UCI pulling the plug on the PT licence.
However: Will Vino, their new major sponsor and Astana meekly capitulate?
Does the licence for part of these rider's contracts?
What of the Shack's application? Was it not, in part, fraudulent?

I see a legal quagmire ahead....

 

[sherer]

according to one of the articles here it seems AC has a clause that the team has to have a PT licence without that the contract can be broken.

I think the UCI are worried that Vino may now take a management role and the team and it seems that isn't allowed although Riis seems to be doing ok with his past and running a team.

 

[Publicus]

You make a good point, but what if AC is stuck at Astana next year? They will need a team to support him.

If they are stripped of their Pro Tour license, I believe AC has an out in his contract. At least that was the implication in this article.

Meanwhile, Astana might find itself considerably cut down in terms of staff and riders next year and appear as an almost empty shell around its leader Contador. If the team loses its ProTour status, however, the Spaniard has a last chance of leaving according to his contract.

 

[Beech Mtn]

What of the Shack's application? Was it not, in part, fraudulent?

I wondered about that myself. They had to submit a roster with management and riders' names. But if that roster now doesn't have a proper manager (who attends the UCI managment course), and also doesn't have the minimum number of riders, due to some of them still being under contract, then what?

I thought many of the rider contracts were alleged to be held by Bruyneel's company rather than by the Kaz Fed. Was this all just smoke and mirrors by JB/LA in order to push through this last-minute new team?

 

[thehog]

I think the Hog as speculated that this may well happen on Thursday, with the UCI pulling the plug on the PT licence.
However: Will Vino, their new major sponsor and Astana meekly capitulate?
Does the licence for part of these rider's contracts?
What of the Shack's application? Was it not, in part, fraudulent?

I see a legal quagmire ahead....

The UCI doesn't help itself using the ProTour licenses as barter to get what it wants. Look at the French situation. I mean that was stupid. Astana in but Cofidis out?

It’s backfiring on them now as they were planning to withdraw the Astana licence for a number of reasons mainly for financial suitability and stability.

The licence will still be withdrawn but right you are it will end up in CAS and the European court.

 

[Publicus]

I wondered about that myself. They had to submit a roster with management and riders' names. But if that roster now doesn't have a proper manager (who attends the UCI managment course), and also doesn't have the minimum number of riders, due to some of them still being under contract, then what?

I thought many of the rider contracts were alleged to be held by Bruyneel's company rather than by the Kaz Fed. Was this all just smoke and mirrors by JB/LA in order to push through this last-minute new team?

I think the riders have tri-party agreements with the Kazakh Cycling Federation and JB's management company. I always found it strange that the KCF was giving up the guts of its team for essentially nothing. As Mellow suggested up thread, this is going to get ugly real fast. Someone pass the popcorn...

 

[montagna lunga]

blah blah blah...letting that venial kajack **** with your heads, guys...like he's been doing since that "press conference" last summer. What a piece of ****.

 

[Beech Mtn]

And just think, a lot of this might not be happening if not for the fact that Vino is Back and wants to ride again and one day be director and grand mentor of Kaz cycling. Gives the sponsors a reason to hang in.

 

[pmcg76]

I wondered about that myself. They had to submit a roster with management and riders' names. But if that roster now doesn't have a proper manager (who attends the UCI managment course), and also doesn't have the minimum number of riders, due to some of them still being under contract, then what?

I thought many of the rider contracts were alleged to be held by Bruyneel's company rather than by the Kaz Fed. Was this all just smoke and mirrors by JB/LA in order to push through this last-minute new team?

Thats what I was thinking, how can you announce riders before they are actually signed up. With Astana having new financial backing, they look in a far stronger position. Why are the UCI discriminating against Vino becoming a director. Bjarne Riis admitted to winning the Tour on EPO but it had little affect on his leadership of CSC/Saxo Bank. Holy Crap, they still allowed Fuji-Servetto/Saunier Duval to be ProTour this year and Mauro Gianetti doesnt exactly have a flawless reputation.

 

[python]

i don't think it'll end in cas or any court. it's a haggling over material resources, team bus cost, equipment etc. astana already got screwed when they parted with bever reportedly for over 2 mil euros. they play hard ball and listen to the uci reaction giving in in the last minute as needed. they already saaid that popo can go but not the other three incl kloden and zubeldia. if shack buys their contracts out they'll gladly let them go. also bryuneel makes one million euros and he threatened not to resign that is continue to draw his salary. it's all about money and the uci has the keys.

 

[Beech Mtn]

Why are the UCI discriminating against Vino becoming a director. Bjarne Riis admitted to winning the Tour on EPO but it had little affect on his leadership of CSC/Saxo Bank. Holy Crap, they still allowed Fuji-Servetto/Saunier Duval to be ProTour this year and Mauro Gianetti doesnt exactly have a flawless reputation.

Supposedly the deal was that all directors have to attend the UCI's new program of management courses, and Vino was not registered to attend, therefore could not be a director. At least that was the rationale given by the UCI. Presumably Bjarne, Johann, and company are enrolled. Sounded kind of sketchy to me, but there you go.

 

[Publicus]

i don't think it'll end in cas or any court. it's a haggling over material resources, team bus cost, equipment etc. astana already got screwed when they parted with bever reportedly for over 2 mil euros. they play hard ball and listen to the uci reaction giving in in the last minute as needed. they already saaid that popo can go but not the other three incl kloden and zubeldia. if shack buys their contracts out they'll gladly let them go. also bryuneel makes one million euros and he threatened not to resign that is continue to draw his salary. it's all about money and the uci has the keys.

Seems to me this works against them getting a Pro Tour license. They need to field a 23 man roster to maintain a PT license. If they are serious about competing, why would you let go 3 of your better riders? I'm sure you can replace Rast, but Zubeldia is still pretty good and so is Kloden (he's obviously on the downside of his career, but his engine is still pretty big). I wouldn't entertain a buyout if I were trying to build a team around AC. Not if I wanted to be considered a credible team.

 

[BroDeal]

Supposedly the deal was that all directors have to attend the UCI's new program of management courses, and Vino was not registered to attend, therefore could not be a director. At least that was the rationale given by the UCI. Presumably Bjarne, Johann, and company are enrolled. Sounded kind of sketchy to me, but there you go.

There are two things I wondered about when I first read about the UCI management course requirement. First, does it cost money? Is it a way for the UCI to make a few extra euros? Second, can the UCI deny someone from attending? Is it a way of maintaining an old boys club by excluding people from jobs?

 

[Cobblestones]

Pure drama. But at least if Astana is serious about retaining its Pro Tour status and competing, these steps make sense. Rast, Zubeldia, Kloden and Popo would make a decent nucleus for the team (though if I were AC, I would trust Popo for minute). If they in fact have a manager to step in for JB, then it doesn't look like we'll be seeing the Shack Attack! after all.

If the Shack wants to buy out riders still under contract, they should pony up the dough.

 

[avanti]

Shack could get a Continental licence and still be invited to the TdF and other major races. Plus compete in N and S American events (including MTB).

 

[luckyboy]

Sure Astana has a new sponsor, but it's not a global marketer like Radio Shack

What!? Samruk-Kazyna has as much appeal here as Radio Shack does. Radio Shack have some stores in Australia and one in Belgium - hardly a global marketer


Anyway, I for one hope that Astana get a ProTour license