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Shack Stalemate Sabotages Licence Hopes?

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luckyboy said:
What!? Samruk-Kazyna has as much appeal here as Radio Shack does. Radio Shack have some stores in Australia and one in Belgium - hardly a global marketer :confused:


Anyway, I for one hope that Astana get a ProTour license

So, without googling, what does Samruk-Kazyna produce or sell? I get your point about Radio Shack not being global like say Nike or Nissan, but my point was that Radio Shack actually has a marketing budget it can use to boost the sport whereas Samruk-Kazyna is just a government conglomeration that, as far as I can tell, doesn't actually do anything but own other government entities.
 
avanti said:
Shack could get a Continental licence and still be invited to the TdF and other major races. Plus compete in N and S American events (including MTB).

I think it is bogus that a team like Skil can slave away in the salt mines of the lower tier of the sport and be forced to give up its move to the top tier while completely new teams like Sky and Retirement Shack are ushered in across a red carpet. A new team should have to prove itself by racing at least a year as a Pro Continental. If there were a proper system of advancement and relegation that depended on results then this would not happen. Instead we are left to wonder what favors have been exchanged between teams and the UCI. It smacks of corruption.

I hope Astana sues if they are denied a ProTour license. Let the UCI explain in court why some teams were given the nod while others were denied.
 
BroDeal said:
I think it is bogus that a team like Skil can slave away in the salt mines of the lower tier of the sport and be forced to give up its move to the top tier while completely new teams like Sky and Retirement Shack are ushered in across a red carpet. A new team should have to prove itself by racing at least a year as a Pro Continental. If there were a proper system of advancement and relegation that depended on results then this would not happen. Instead we are left to wonder what favors have been exchanged between teams and the UCI. It smacks of corruption.

I hope Astana sues if they are denied a ProTour license. Let the UCI explain in course why some teams were given the nod and while others were denied.

Now that would be interesting. :eek: This thing could play out any number of ways, but Astana is not without leverage...
 
Publicus said:
So, without googling, what does Samruk-Kazyna produce or sell? I get your point about Radio Shack not being global like say Nike or Nissan, but my point was that Radio Shack actually has a marketing budget it can use to boost the sport whereas Samruk-Kazyna is just a government conglomeration that, as far as I can tell, doesn't actually do anything but own other government entities.

I guessed it was either a bank or energy company when I first read the news. I already googled it. Anyway, fair point with the marketing.
 
I wondered why Pat didn't hand Shack the Cofidis PT licence, on a silver platter.
Thought it would be the kind of thing Lance would appreciate.

However, now it becomes clear.
The Shack licence application was at best, premature, at worst, bogus; based upon a team and manager that don't exist.......as yet.

McQuaid would know about all of this, yet no comment to the media, certainly no rebuke to Messrs Armstrong and Bruyneel.

Meanwhile, I confidently predict, like BH, that Astana's licence will get revoked, this week. It has to happen this way.
Contracts will be nullified and the Shack will suddenly have the riders, DS and magic piece of paper in their hands.

No corruption there, then.:rolleyes:
 
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sherer said:
i think if AC is at Astana then the other riders can't leave either and I suspect they will do a deal with JB so he can leave and join the shack but can't sign any Astana riders for X years

JB said he took the Astana job on the condition that he wouldn't work with Vino, so as Vino's back, JB has his get-out clause.
 
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It would seem to me rather hazardous of Astana to hang on to so many staff that did not wish to work for them. While one disgruntled rider could be dealt with, and even suffer severe career repercussions, that many staff could destroy the whole image of Astana if they were to take "job action".
 
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Anonymous

Guest
BroDeal said:
I think it is bogus that a team like Skil can slave away in the salt mines of the lower tier of the sport and be forced to give up its move to the top tier while completely new teams like Sky and Retirement Shack are ushered in across a red carpet.

the radio shack and sky situations are very very different...
Radio shack was basically, a lance has no team wants to ride the tour so finds himself a sponsor, and worry about riders and team management later..
Sky has been a long time planning, has very very good financial base, had the management structure put in place very early on, and then worked on signing riders, and have been pretty professional the whole way along.. they are a serious team in it for the long haul and deserve a PT licence.. Radio shack on the other hand, who knows, who even knows if they plan to be around more than a year or so....
 
May 26, 2009
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Mellow Velo said:
I wondered why Pat didn't hand Shack the Cofidis PT licence, on a silver platter.
Thought it would be the kind of thing Lance would appreciate.

However, now it becomes clear.
The Shack licence application was at best, premature, at worst, bogus; based upon a team and manager that don't exist.......as yet.

McQuaid would know about all of this, yet no comment to the media, certainly no rebuke to Messrs Armstrong and Bruyneel.

Meanwhile, I confidently predict, like BH, that Astana's licence will get revoked, this week. It has to happen this way.
Contracts will be nullified and the Shack will suddenly have the riders, DS and magic piece of paper in their hands.

No corruption there, then.:rolleyes:

This is how it's going to play out:

1. The Astana licence is revoked.
2. Astana applies for a new licence
3. The Shack signs Klöden, Zubeldia and Popo (+Bruyneel) since they have already negotiated the signings.
3. Before Caisse d'Epargne gets Contador's name in the papers Astana is granted a new ProTour licence and Contador is again bound to the team by his contract.

At least that would make a great movie :)
 
Mellow Velo said:
I wondered why Pat didn't hand Shack the Cofidis PT licence, on a silver platter.
Thought it would be the kind of thing Lance would appreciate.

However, now it becomes clear.
The Shack licence application was at best, premature, at worst, bogus; based upon a team and manager that don't exist.......as yet.

McQuaid would know about all of this, yet no comment to the media, certainly no rebuke to Messrs Armstrong and Bruyneel.

Meanwhile, I confidently predict, like BH, that Astana's licence will get revoked, this week. It has to happen this way.
Contracts will be nullified and the Shack will suddenly have the riders, DS and magic piece of paper in their hands.

No corruption there, then.:rolleyes:

The most important piece of the puzzle for Radioshack is Bruyneel himself:
the Riders & the infrastructure already in place to serve the Shack are owned/under contract by Olympus Sarl (Bruyneel's company)-which is under contract by ASTANA for another year. The Kazakhs want that contract to be fulfilled/honored as signed to the very last detail-and UCI can't just pulled the PT license just because Lance & Johann ask for it- after all-Astana has the current TDF winner & the season results/ranking- they have also resolved the backing on sponsorship/money & regardless Vinokourov's apathy to the cycling community, Bruyneel has no excuse at all to force his exit from the contractual obligations-so neither the riders.....
 
Jul 17, 2009
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dimspace said:
the radio shack and sky situations are very very different...
Radio shack was basically, a lance has no team wants to ride the tour so finds himself a sponsor, and worry about riders and team management later..
Sky has been a long time planning, has very very good financial base, had the management structure put in place very early on, and then worked on signing riders, and have been pretty professional the whole way along.. they are a serious team in it for the long haul and deserve a PT licence.. Radio shack on the other hand, who knows, who even knows if they plan to be around more than a year or so....


talk about a dogmatic statement
 
Mar 10, 2009
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Race Radio said:
You make a good point, but what if AC is stuck at Astana next year? They will need a team to support him.
Aside from all the legal issues, I wonder how AC can expect to compete on a team that has not only belittled several team members, but may use legal means to keep disgruntled riders on the team.

Great motivation...

Not arguing for TeamShack, just commenting on how clueless the Kazak backers of Astana are.
 
benpounder said:
Aside from all the legal issues, I wonder how AC can expect to compete on a team that has not only belittled several team members, but may use legal means to keep disgruntled riders on the team.

Great motivation...

Not arguing for TeamShack, just commenting on how clueless the Kazak backers of Astana are.

I am not so sure the riders destined for RadioShack are going there for purely sporting reasons. I think a big part of it is the financial aspect. I would imagine they probably wouldnt mind working for Contador, especially Zubeldia. If they were on the same money as at Radioshack, I dont think they would be that bothered. Kloeden, I dont know. Rast, who cares. Popo, definitely in the Lance camp.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Boeing said:
talk about a dogmatic statement

1. Relating to, characteristic of, or resulting from dogma.
2. Characterized by an authoritative, arrogant assertion of unproved or unprovable principles.

nah.. youre gonna have to explain what you mean in plain english for me... i cant work out if youre accusing me of being arrogant, or going on unproven things...

your going to need to explain.. :confused:
 
dimspace said:
the radio shack and sky situations are very very different...
Radio shack was basically, a lance has no team wants to ride the tour so finds himself a sponsor, and worry about riders and team management later..
Sky has been a long time planning, has very very good financial base, had the management structure put in place very early on, and then worked on signing riders, and have been pretty professional the whole way along.. they are a serious team in it for the long haul and deserve a PT licence.. Radio shack on the other hand, who knows, who even knows if they plan to be around more than a year or so....

I could accuse you of being biased in this analysis as you are a fan of British Cycling but it doesn't matter because I think you're spot-on correct in the comparison between these two teams.

I have a subscription to Cycle Sport and they did a big article on the creation of Team Sky way back May '09 and they've been doing almost monthly updates on the creation of the team since then. The point is that Sky has been methodically planning this team and working with the UCI for almost a year at minimum. RadioShack just came out of nowhere and was rustled up as a title sponsor by Armstrong himself (I think). Not that there's anything wrong with that, it's just that there are no indications that they have a desire for a long-term presence in cycling and likely merely want to capitalize on the Armstrong name in the short-term. Again, certainly a good decision by their marketing department but the UCI needs to weigh the long-term interests of the sport itself along with short-term cash infusions from new sponsors.
 
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Anonymous

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sherer said:
according to one of the articles here it seems AC has a clause that the team has to have a PT licence without that the contract can be broken.

I think the UCI are worried that Vino may now take a management role and the team and it seems that isn't allowed although Riis seems to be doing ok with his past and running a team.

there is no specific clause. rather, AC signed with astana with a fair and reasonable assumption that they would be in the protour.

if they lose their licence, he will have to prove in the courts that his contact is void becoz of this reasonable assumption

there is no gaurantee that he gets out (b/c fran forgot to include the clause), but its highly likely he can negotiate out, as a rider of his caliber should be in the protour.

i hope astana lose their licence. this stupid politics with the kazakh government is so frustrating. the kazakhs are just prolonging the inevitable. the riders will all leave in 2011 anyway, so why not just cut loose and avoid the rider walkout in a years time. astana is dead in 12 months anyway
 
Mountain Goat said:
there is no specific clause. rather, AC signed with astana with a fair and reasonable assumption that they would be in the protour.

if they lose their licence, he will have to prove in the courts that his contact is void becoz of this reasonable assumption

there is no gaurantee that he gets out (b/c fran forgot to include the clause), but its highly likely he can negotiate out, as a rider of his caliber should be in the protour.

i hope astana lose their licence. this stupid politics with the kazakh government is so frustrating. the kazakhs are just prolonging the inevitable. the riders will all leave in 2011 anyway, so why not just cut loose and avoid the rider walkout in a years time. astana is dead in 12 months anyway

I am not so sure Astana will walk away in a year especially if Vino is involved as a director but I do understand the difficulties with that team.

I also think there is as much chance of RadioShack walking in 12 months so it might not be much better on that team.
 
Mountain Goat said:
there is no specific clause. rather, AC signed with astana with a fair and reasonable assumption that they would be in the protour.

if they lose their licence, he will have to prove in the courts that his contact is void becoz of this reasonable assumption

there is no gaurantee that he gets out (b/c fran forgot to include the clause), but its highly likely he can negotiate out, as a rider of his caliber should be in the protour.

i hope astana lose their licence. this stupid politics with the kazakh government is so frustrating. the kazakhs are just prolonging the inevitable. the riders will all leave in 2011 anyway, so why not just cut loose and avoid the rider walkout in a years time. astana is dead in 12 months anyway

where did you get that piece of information? i'd love to know what else is or is not in his contract.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
pmcg76 said:
I am not so sure Astana will walk away in a year especially if Vino is involved as a director but I do understand the difficulties with that team.

I also think there is as much chance of RadioShack walking in 12 months so it might not be much better on that team.

i personally dont think shack are in it for any more than a year or two... it is literally a retirement home... the livestrong foundation/feeder team yes, but shack.. nah.... here today gone tommoro...

astana do have the financial backing to stick around.. i think the financial problems where more about they wanted to screw over JB than actually not having the money.. with vino there and astana back the way it was (which like vino or not, and regardless of the doping issues) the idea was at least a noble one for the khazak cycling point of view.. Astana will still be racing long after radio shack are forgotten..

we (the wife and myself)( are actually former astana fans, there is even a flag somewhere.. no, not happy about the doping/vino, although i cant help loving vino, his riding style just makes me want to, and have not been an astana fan this year because i think they have done cycling a massive discredit and continue to do so... but i will be again some day...

BikeCentric said:
I could accuse you of being biased in this analysis as you are a fan of British Cycling but it doesn't matter because I think you're spot-on correct in the comparison between these two teams.
.

yes i am, and im looking forward to team sky from a british fans point of view, but it doesnt cloud my ability to be objective... I have been impressed from the start the way Dave B and the whole of the team have conducted themselves, no glitz, no glamour, they have got on at the job at hand in a proffessional matter... they have also done a great job of promoting themselves.. think how much we had heard of cervelho in the year before they started racing.. then think of sky.. sky has been not to much talk, and a far bit of action.. shack have been a lot of talk and not much else..
 
I think the decision has already been made. Surely this is what JV is so chuffed about?

1) PT license for Astana is not renewed (somewhere on this JB and stuck cyclists exit through the back door). Contador allowed to leave.
2) Contador joins Garmin
3) Wiggins joins Sky (confirming the whispers)
4) The Shack slime their way into a PT license and get The Hog and riders they've supposedly already signed.
5) Evil Kazakh Empire and that devious cheater Vino are pushed into the sewers of the sport, never to taint the golden image again.

Is this not a great result for Garmin and cycling in general?

I think the only uncertainty which remains is how Radio Shack come out the other side, obviously for the sake of Lance it will happen, but how will be interesting.
 
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Anonymous

Guest
Ferminal said:
Is this not a great result for Garmin and cycling in general?

personally.. no...

we lose astana and gain shack... case of better the devil you know than the devil you dont... although we know them both which makes it doubly bad... Astana made their mistakes, and to be fair where doping, when everyone else was as well.. lets not think that astana and vino where the only ones at it.. they wherent.. but, considering all that has gone before they have to whiter than white now....

the ideal solution i guess would be no astana, or shack, but given the choice.. give me astana any day...

and for garmin, no... i actually maybe misguidedly have faith in garmins cleanliness.. i dont have that same faith in contador.. shatters a few illusions for me im afraid...

but given the choice between a new, hopefully clean, and financially stable astana bringing fresh young faces in (and hopefully not loads of ex dopers) v shack and just the same old guard dominating the politics of cycling, i pick astana....

i used to be a fan of lance, i still love his racing, but it just seems wherever him and JB go there is political wrangling and too much damn attention.... it wont change when they are gone, but at least it will be one bad apple gone from the basket and we can try and get back to talking cycling instead of F****** politics...