Hairy Wheels
BANNED
Roland Rat said:
You don't make a lick of sense there. Not a bit.
Alex Zulle did just under 46 min for 40 k once, mid 90's. Hmmm. Pommies must be fast. Gee Whiz.
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You don't make a lick of sense there. Not a bit.
Alex Zulle did just under 46 min for 40 k once, mid 90's. Hmmm. Pommies must be fast. Gee Whiz.
Roland Rat said:
Insufficient power to drag ratio. I don't know what women could put out the power that Cancellara does, but I would not want to meet her in a dark alley.
Yeah no one gives a **** about womens racing get over yourself
Is it ever even on TV (road that is)?!
I strongly agree with Riccardo Ricco when it come to this
Go preach your equality of women and men elsewhere.....
As men we love them but they don't give very good entertainment cycling
Is it ever even on TV (road that is)?!
I strongly agree with Riccardo Ricco when it come to this
Go preach your equality of women and men elsewhere.....
As men we love them but they don't give very good entertainment cycling
Hairy Wheels said:
What didn't make sense?
And BTW, the men's record is 45.54 set by Dave McCann last year.
i haven't watched women's road racing, only the bit of track coverage that the WC, Olympics or C/wealth games gets. Can't say that I've been disappointed with what I've seen of that (except seeing pendleton beat meares)...
also, prefer women's tennis (without the williams sisters) as the games have more rallies and aren't just two blokes blasting serves at each other, which gets boring very quickly. effectively making the strength/speed argument misguided
also, prefer women's tennis (without the williams sisters) as the games have more rallies and aren't just two blokes blasting serves at each other, which gets boring very quickly. effectively making the strength/speed argument misguided
you know you want toBroDeal said:
This seems like a chicken and egg debate. There is no coverage because there is no interest versus there is no interest because there is no coverage.
Women's racing is where men's racing was in the USA around 1990. There was almost no coverage and very little main stream interest. It will take people going above and beyond to push the sport in the main stream. The racing is good and most of the top riders are pretty damn fast. The women even managed to lap the men last year at Philly.
There are some dedicated people that are doing what they can to promote the sport of women's cycling. Check out this video.
http://www.vimeo.com/12562785
Women's racing is where men's racing was in the USA around 1990. There was almost no coverage and very little main stream interest. It will take people going above and beyond to push the sport in the main stream. The racing is good and most of the top riders are pretty damn fast. The women even managed to lap the men last year at Philly.
There are some dedicated people that are doing what they can to promote the sport of women's cycling. Check out this video.
http://www.vimeo.com/12562785
ttrider said:
From your opinions, you sound like you're posting from 1948. Could you tell me how you think the Coppi/Bartali wars are playing out, and if you think Ferdi Kübler will ever manage to beat them?
Dearest ttrider,
...that is some smelly pile of twadle you just dumped...words often fail me when confronted with stupidity of such a high level so please hang on a moment as I take a moment to catch my breath...
...from a pure business sense you're dumping on 50% of the available demographic that would potentionally buy cycling goods...
...from a sporting sense you seem by implication to not only be dumping on women but on every racing category save the pros...
...this attitude that you put forth, at least in North America, is a primary reason cycling is a "backwater" sport...triathlon which pushes a more inclusionary message has proved to be a huge success here...we could use more of that message to move our sport forward and less of your neanderthal mind set...
...and to general audience...sorry but I'm simply too angry to continue and I'm genuinely sorry to have come on so hard but frankly having people like ttrider being in any way shape or form associated with cycling is an embarrassment of epic proportions...we should run such people out of the sport on a rail...they can always go ride by themselves which given their attitude I'm sure they often do..
Cheers
Blutto
...that is some smelly pile of twadle you just dumped...words often fail me when confronted with stupidity of such a high level so please hang on a moment as I take a moment to catch my breath...
...from a pure business sense you're dumping on 50% of the available demographic that would potentionally buy cycling goods...
...from a sporting sense you seem by implication to not only be dumping on women but on every racing category save the pros...
...this attitude that you put forth, at least in North America, is a primary reason cycling is a "backwater" sport...triathlon which pushes a more inclusionary message has proved to be a huge success here...we could use more of that message to move our sport forward and less of your neanderthal mind set...
...and to general audience...sorry but I'm simply too angry to continue and I'm genuinely sorry to have come on so hard but frankly having people like ttrider being in any way shape or form associated with cycling is an embarrassment of epic proportions...we should run such people out of the sport on a rail...they can always go ride by themselves which given their attitude I'm sure they often do..
Cheers
Blutto
blutto said:
you think thats coming on hard.. that was positively scented and lace wrapped.. you want to see some of whats said around here
For what it's worth, for me Beryl Burton, Jeanie Longo and Nicole Cooke are real heroes. Clean, real cyclists. Fantastic to watch them racing. Millions of us follow women's races -. Racing is racing and women do it superbly - I feel for those of you too narrow to get a grip here
Hairy Wheels
BANNED
I'd definitely like more time & effort devoted to the women's races and race reports, with higher visibility on the CN home page.
For those of you who enjoy the women, join us here
http://girodonne.cyclingfever.com/index.html
for the Giro d'Italia Femminile 2010.
And, just to show our equal opportunity policy, there is always
http://tour.cyclingfever.com/index.html
In this race-special you will find anything there is to know about the race in the way you're accustomed to. The history, current stage descriptions, a historical database with all the stages and results, stage cities, climbs, previews, rider statistics and more. And we nearly forgot to mention that we have two different cycling competitions ready for you to enjoy while you're at it.
Ah, yes, joining is free, even when you don't want to participate in the games and just want access to our database and all the fun stuff on the Race!
http://girodonne.cyclingfever.com/index.html
for the Giro d'Italia Femminile 2010.
And, just to show our equal opportunity policy, there is always
http://tour.cyclingfever.com/index.html
In this race-special you will find anything there is to know about the race in the way you're accustomed to. The history, current stage descriptions, a historical database with all the stages and results, stage cities, climbs, previews, rider statistics and more. And we nearly forgot to mention that we have two different cycling competitions ready for you to enjoy while you're at it.
Ah, yes, joining is free, even when you don't want to participate in the games and just want access to our database and all the fun stuff on the Race!
lancewillwin8 said:
You mean ONE real athlete in your estimation, one whose name I need not mention.
Ryo Hazuki said:
Without the commentators telling you so, you don't know how fast/hard they are riding. How do you quantify "riding hard"? The Women's Olympic Road Race was one of the more exciting finales of that particular season, men or women.
I'll see men's cycling and raise you a woman. There are only seven men in the peloton who can beat Ms. Teutenberg.
Hairy Wheels said:
It's the British men's open 25 mile time trial record as ratified by the appropriate authority.
theyoungest said:
haha good one
fyi - i treat men and women as equals, that's why i suggested that they race together
the fact that people like YOU demand women's racing be separate to mens causes this perceived inequality of race coverage.
let them race together, and there is no inequality and we can watch the best of the best fight it out... no doubt some of the women can race a higher level than their current grouping suggests, and even put a few men to shame.
you can call me what you want, but it's still demand and supply as long as they define the sport as "mens" and "womens" racing so get over it.
EDIT: Libertine Serguros - I found your comments interesting. I think sponsors have a huge incentive to find out where the best coverage for their brand is. They do all kinds of research. It's not just how many people turn on their TV to watch, as you suggested that measure is inadequate as women's racing is limited on television. But those companies do a tonne of market research and surveys and they look at what type of 'hits' certain niche areas get and decide to invest in that area. Hell, they could just take a 180k drive down the roads before/after a women's race to see the 'real' level of demand if they wanted... The fact that they haven't invested nearly as much in women's racing is an indicator that supply and demand is the true reason for this inequality of race coverage. In fact, maybe someone from cyclingnews can provide the data of the number of 'hits' the articles on women's racing get as a percentage of men's racing...
SERIOUSLY, CNFORUM MODS CAN YOU EASILY ACCESS THIS DATA??? - IT WOULD BE A GOOD INDICATOR OF THE LEVEL OF DEMAND FOR WOMEN'S CYCLING, PROPORTIONAL TO MENS. THANKS IF IT'S ACHIEVABLE
It's also interesting that everyone preaches the politically favourable argument that they are just as interested in the men's racing as the women's. That's interesting because i don't see these posters starting race threads about womens racing.. why hasn't anyone started pre-race threads for all the women's races/stages like Moondance and ACF94 do for the men's races?? supply and demand. that's why. don't preach the demand exists when it doesn't.
People need to look beyond the mere existence of inequality of race coverage and ASSUMING that people favour men over women. As i said in my first post, people favour ROAD over TRACK, but I don't see anyone preaching that the track events get little coverage... I don't the see the fixed-gear rear wheels complaining that their free-wheel counterparts get paid twice as much, do they? Everyone should stop clouding this issue as one of gender and open their eyes and smell the roses that MENS ROAD cycling is what we all love and follow, and anything else is a second tier market for any sponsor... SUCH. IS. LIFE.
While this is true, TV coverage is one of the things that turns people into cycling fans. If I hadn't seen cycle racing on TV, and been keen enough to look up online about it, I wouldn't have known that a semi-Classic would be passing right outside my window when I lived in Germany a few years ago. Then I wouldn't have attended, wouldn't have caught the bug, and wouldn't be a big cycling fan. While the attendance for women's racing is poor, a lot of the time people who might want to attend don't have the opportunity to know it's even on. Admittedly, a lot of the race organisers don't help themselves; the Tour de l'Aude and the Giro del Trentino have made hunting for their results a very difficult and slow process, and fans are often reduced to hunting through the tweets of Anton Vos and the various teams to put together the results piecemeal. This makes the reward of finding the results not worth the effort of searching for them to many (kinda like when I gave up on dance music, because I'd be listening to 5 hours of radio to hear about 2 tracks I thought were worth my money). There isn't much money in organising the races, which means they can't promote them anything like as much as the men's events. Again, it's chicken and egg. Is the lack of money because of poor attendance and no demand? Or is the poor attendance and no demand because of lack of money and inability to promote?Inner Peace said:
But then, a lot of the sponsors in men's cycling do so at a loss. Many do so simply because the CEO or some other higher-up is a cycling fan (see Discovery). The women's péloton, similarly, has some long-lasting sponsors such as Safi-Pasta Zara, who've been around for a long time. The Giro Donne will feature a stage finishing circuit that pulls laps around their factory as a means of thanking them, since RAI cover the Giro Donne and they'll get some TV coverage. There's TV coverage of the Giro Del Trentino up online actually, quite interesting to see. Also, you have Columbia, Cervélo and Lotto, who all have women's teams, plus Rabobank have Rabo Lady Force, a development team, and TopSport Vlaanderen have a women's equivalent. At least one of the Basque teams is tied to the Fundación Euskadi, which is also responsible for the management of the Euskaltel team. Of course, at the opposite end of the spectrum you have Team Sky, where Dave Brailsford will talk about technical prowess and skinsuits etc., and take the credit for Nicole Cooke's 2008 Olympic medal, but has no interest in a women's team even when Nicole personally goes cap in hand to him because her 2010 ride has fallen through. Some of the teams don't help themselves; apparently the managers of Equipe Nürnberger Versicherung had started acting on their 2010 budget before their sponsorship change to Skyter-Shipping had been finalised; Skyter pulled out, team fell apart, now being kept apart out of the personal finances of the manager and his son. Selle Italia-Ghezzi (semi-linked to Androni) fell apart last year because two of the DSes had a childish spat they couldn't resolve. They reminded me of Gogol's How Ivan Ivanovich Quarrelled With Ivan Nikiforovich, if you've read that.
Also, some of the UCI's rather arbitrary laws do not help women's cycling at all. The 'stage races must have an average stage length of no more than 100km' rule, for example. Why must this be? The women have proven with the likes of the women's Ronde that they can comfortably handle more than that. The same goes for the track, where women do shorter pursuits and shorter TTs than men. You could point out that the lower power and slower pace in the women's events mean that time restraints should come into play, and I'd say fair enough. Women's tennis is best of 3 sets, while men's is best of 5, for example. But athletics sees (mostly) equality, with the heptathlon vs. decathlon the only clear example I can think of where the women do less.
This should be achievable. I think it would be fairer to compare the hits to those of similarly rated races, i.e. mostly 2.2-rated and occasionally 2.1-rated events. As I've said before in these comments, I don't think anybody is advocating that we hype Trentino up above the Tour de Suisse or anything like that. But to stick it below the likes of the Tour de Beauce and the Tour of Małopolska is the debate. It's in being hidden below the likes of these that the disappointment for followers of women's cycling lies.
But I do start articles and threads about women's races sometimes. I just don't do it here, because the reaction will be poor. On some forums I've seen plenty of reason to discuss women's races. Here, there is none. I don't know if that's a result of location, of atmosphere, of the attitude to the sport of the site the forums are attached to, or simply the behaviour of the posters, but to talk about women's racing here, when few of us will ever get to see the races, and many just dismiss it out of hand, strikes me as futile. Which in turn, makes it not worth the investment for many sponsors, which in turn means the races don't make much money, which in turn makes the TV companies stay away, which in turn means it doesn't get discussed on forums, and it's a vicious circle.
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