Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[Benotti69]

Varnish's performances

https://twitter.com/helengoth/status/723851110633627648

looks like Sutton gets personal with athletes........

 

[thehog]

Re:

Would you prefer he said, "Look Jess, your butt does look big in Rapha but if you take this AICAR it will fit nice and snugly, and if you take this Pot Belge you'll sprint quicker too."?

Sutton has always been a bit of a gob ****.

The whole world has moved on. Guys like Sutton shouldn't be in management positions but I guess with the suitcase of *** that he knows at BC that have to do something with him.

The misogynistic implying that "she deserves it", due to performance issues, is rather sickening.

It's kinda funny that BC promote "inner chimp", "marginal gains" etc. and the reality is they operate like a 1980s factory, jobs for the boys and women in the kitchen.

It's so unfortunate, not too dissimilar to Kirby's comments at the Track worlds. I'm sure former head of British Cycling Brian Cookson is very proud.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Wow, Sutton is a pig

 

[Robert21]

Shane Sutton is a sexist? Burn the witch!

Joking aside, I think people should take a step back here before there is another repeat of the disgraceful Tim Hunt saga.

Yes, Sutton is known for not worrying too much about appeasing the 'PC' thought police, as when he said that Wiggins 'couldn't pull the foreskin of a rice pudding'. Doubtless, he also drives his riders hard and expects no back-chat from them. As Varnish herself has said "Don’t get me wrong, the boys don’t get it easy."

However, Varnish also seems to have a mouth that is rather too big for her own good. When I have ridden at Manchester the whole place reeks of corporate control-freakery, and speaking out against the management in such an environment is a cardinal sin.

Also, we don't know the full back-story, how Varnish's performances compared with the rest of the team, how well she fitted in to the team structure and so on. Yes, her speaking out might have played a role, but then again malcontents are often seen as being potentially fatal in a team situation.

OK, so she is understandably angry, but by accusing Sutton of the most universal and unanswerable of crimes, 'sexism', knowing that in this day and age most institutions are so terrified of the twitter mob that such accusations are often enough to end someone's career, irrespective of how valid they are, her going to the press and so on, does suggest that the underlying problem is that she simply isn't the sort of 'professional team player' that the likes of British Cycling expect their riders to be. (Or unquestioning corporate clones, to look at it another way.)

She has made her grievances personal, and that is rarely a constructive thing to do.

 

[Robert21]

Re:

Sutton has always been a bit of a gob ****.

That is pretty much the bottom line. Unfortunately for those who might want to assassinate someone's character, or end their career, being a "gob****" is not a hanging offence, on the other hand, being a 'sexist' is pretty much held to be the ultimate crime...

 

[Robert21]

Disappointed Sutton didn't go with something like this:

'Well, Jess's **** exceeds median track sprinter size by a statistically significant amount and further, the data indicates that 25 years old is a scientifically optimal time to have a baby. At British Cycling, everything is evidence based"

Thing is, we don't really know what Sutton was thinking when he said this, if he did.

He might have even been trying to be constructive. After all, if you have spent years dedicating yourself to racing, and then it looks like it is all coming to an end, there is a big hole to be filled. Perhaps in his mind he was just saying 'Come on, this isn't the end of the world, pull yourself together and move on, you are free to do what you want know, even have children.'

She might have even once said to him that when she stopped racing she wanted to have kids, and he remembered this. Bottom line is we just don't know the whole story.

 

[The Hitch]

Re:

Shane Sutton is a sexist? Burn the witch!

Joking aside, I think people should take a step back here before there is another repeat of the disgraceful Tim Hunt saga.

Yes, Sutton is known for not worrying too much about appeasing the 'PC' thought police, as when he said that Wiggins 'couldn't pull the foreskin of a rice pudding'. Doubtless, he also drives his riders hard and expects no back-chat from them. As Varnish herself has said "Don’t get me wrong, the boys don’t get it easy."

However, Varnish also seems to have a mouth that is rather too big for her own good. When I have ridden at Manchester the whole place reeks of corporate control-freakery, and speaking out against the management in such an environment is a cardinal sin.

Also, we don't know the full back-story, how Varnish's performances compared with the rest of the team, how well she fitted in to the team structure and so on. Yes, her speaking out might have played a role, but then again malcontents are often seen as being potentially fatal in a team situation.

OK, so she is understandably angry, but by accusing Sutton of the most universal and unanswerable of crimes, 'sexism', knowing that in this day and age most institutions are so terrified of the twitter mob that such accusations are often enough to end someone's career, irrespective of how valid they are, her going to the press and so on, does suggest that the underlying problem is that she simply isn't the sort of 'professional team player' that the likes of British Cycling expect their riders to be. (Or unquestioning corporate clones, to look at it another way.)

She has made her grievances personal, and that is rarely a constructive thing to do.

This would make some sense...

If Varnish was the only person who had accused Sutton of sexism.

But considering she is just next in a long line of people accusing Sutton of sexism, on top of a few for doping, the above reads like poorly thought out salty apologism.

 

[The Hitch]

Sums it up perfectly

https://twitter.com/flicksta/status/723792744813084672

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

This would make some sense...

If Varnish was the only person who had accused Sutton of sexism.

Problem is, to the thought police just about anything can be construed as being 'sexist'. In fact the word is so over-used that I am not sure that it actually means anything these days, much like the way 'Nazi' is used as a generalised insult.

Is Sutton also supposed to be homophobic anti-semitic because he said that Wiggins 'couldn't pull the skin of a rice pudding'? Could it not be the case that he is just a "Gob****"?

It is also the case that Varnish seems to have 'gone public' with the express intent of causing as much harm to Sutton as is possible, which hardly reflects well on her.

Yes, this whole saga probably reflects badly on the corporate control-freakery that seems to be central to the workings of British Cycling, but people say things in all innocence that are later misconstrued or misrepresented. (As with the way Mr. Campaganolo said 'Oh no, he rides Shimano' when asked who was going to do a good ride in the world RR championships back in 1973, with Freddy Maertens turning this off-the-cuff joke into proof of there been conspiracy against him.)

If, for example, Sutton had directly discriminated against Varnish purely because of her gender, then he would be guilty as charged, but I see no evidence of this from Varnish or any of his other 'accusers'.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

the above reads like poorly thought out salty apologism.

I'm not apologising for Sutton, just pointing out that:

1) We don't know the whole story.

2) In these days of the PC thoughtpolice, for those with an axe to grind accusations of 'sexism' are the almost perfect, unanswerable slur.

If Varnish had said, 'Sutton is a hard-driving gob**** who doesn't tolerate people challenging the management structures as British Cycling', no one would have batted an eyelash. Throw in a 'sexism' charge, however irrelevant this might be to her being selected or not, and the mobs start lighting their pitchforks...

 

[jens_attacks]

Most of the trainers are complete douches with their athletes, men or women. In my country, they would even smack you or call you in the worst ways you imagine. Things like that can make you or break you. Professional sport is for tough characters.

Crying because your trainer said you have a big bum isabsolutely pathetic and also revealing this. I'm very far from being ryo but c'mon this is ridiculous. A trainershould be ruthless.

 

[Robert21]

Re:

Crying because your trainer said you have a big bum isabsolutely pathetic and also revealing this. I'm very far from being ryo but c'mon this is ridiculous. A trainershould be ruthless.

Varnish has said "Don’t get me wrong, the boys don’t get it easy."

I wonder what sort of things Sutton says to the guys on the team?

Problem is that, these days, speaking to women with the same degree of respect as is given to men is held not be be an example of equality, instead it is 'sexist', and 'equality' means treating women with a higher level of respect than is given to the male members of the team!

 

[jens_attacks]

I played football as a kid and our trainer would shout terrible sort of things. For all of us, that was pretty motivating

Clearly shane sutton is an aszhole too but the political corectness goes too far sometimes

 

[thehog]

Re:

I played football as a kid and our trainer would shout terrible sort of things. For all of us, that was pretty motivating

Clearly shane sutton is an aszhole too but the political corectness goes too far sometimes

At a guess, there were no women in your football team?

What a dreadful example. Perhaps you'd feel more at home with Shane and Dave surmising on the size of women arses in relation to their cycling performance?

 

[oldcrank]

Some of us are not sensitive about the size of our 'butts and guts'.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Re: wooo.oh

Wow, Sutton is a pig

wooo.oh,,,,,,,,, sutton is a straight talking guy

Mark L
edit.....sutton should get up to date.....watch what he says while recognising the

right of women to call him a pig

As long as he talks like a sexist pig I will reserve the right to call him a pig. Simples.

 

[CheckMyPecs]

Re: wooo.oh

As long as he talks like a sexist pig I will reserve the right to call him a pig. Simples.

Well said, Flo.

 

[thehog]

Re: wooo.oh

Wow, Sutton is a pig

wooo.oh,,,,,,,,, sutton is a straight talking guy

Mark L
edit.....sutton should get up to date.....watch what he says while recognising the right of women to call him a pig

What a strange post.

Women don't have a "right" to call a man a pig, they do have the right to be treated fairly, with respect and equally as men.

This also has nothing to do with "getting up to date"; it's about ignorance.

 

[Robert21]

Re: wooo.oh

Women don't have a "right" to call a man a pig, they do have the right to be treated fairly, with respect and equally as men.

I have a feeling that Sutton does treat all his riders equally, male or female. Whether he treats them with respect is another question altogether...

 

[LaFlorecita]

Normally all the whining about sexism annoys me like hell. I hardly ever "hurl accusations of sexism around", in fact usually I defend people or companies online against those allegations. But seriously. Instead of just saying, "sorry, you're too old/not good enough, you're out of the team", Sutton says, "you're too old, go have some babies". As if as soon as a woman turns 25, their sole purpose is to act as baby-making machines. What? That is totally uncalled for, and yes, it can be considered sexist.
Perhaps he is not sexist though, but just an extremely unpleasant person.

 

[thehog]

Re: wooo.oh

Women don't have a "right" to call a man a pig, they do have the right to be treated fairly, with respect and equally as men.

I have a feeling that Sutton does treat all his riders equally, male or female. Whether he treats them with respect is another question altogether...

What a poor post. You mean to say that Sutton has told male riders to "go off an have a baby"?

I seriously very much doubt that he has. Again, back to ignorance.

 

[Robert21]

Re: wooo.oh

You mean to say that Sutton has told male riders to "go off an have a baby"?

I seriously very much doubt that he has. Again, back to ignorance.

No, I am saying that when talking to the male riders on the team he probably comes out with other crap that is just as disrespectful, as when he described Wiggins by saying 'he couldn't pull the foreskin off a rice pudding'. As such what he has (allegedly) said is more boorish than sexist or discriminatory.

As I said earlier, Varnish might have once said to him that when she stopped racing she wanted to start a family, and he might have remembered this and thought that he was being constructive, pointing out that there are other things in life to track racing. We just don't know the full story.

 

[veganrob]

Re: wooo.oh

You mean to say that Sutton has told male riders to "go off an have a baby"?

I seriously very much doubt that he has. Again, back to ignorance.

No, I am saying that when talking to the male riders on the team he probably comes out with other crap that is just as disrespectful, as when he described Wiggins by saying 'he couldn't pull the foreskin off a rice pudding'. As such what he has (allegedly) said is more boorish than sexist or discriminatory.

As I said earlier, Varnish might have once said to him that when she stopped racing she wanted to start a family, and he might have remembered this and thought that he was being constructive, pointing out that there are other things in life to track racing. We just don't know the full story.

She "might" have said something and he "might" have remembered. What has that got to do with anything. You're right, we don't know the whole story so why are you offering these lame hpotheticals to defend him?

 

[thehog]

Re: wooo.oh

You mean to say that Sutton has told male riders to "go off an have a baby"?

I seriously very much doubt that he has. Again, back to ignorance.

No, I am saying that when talking to the male riders on the team he probably comes out with other crap that is just as disrespectful, as when he described Wiggins by saying 'he couldn't pull the foreskin off a rice pudding'. As such what he has (allegedly) said is more boorish than sexist or discriminatory.

As I said earlier, Varnish might have once said to him that when she stopped racing she wanted to start a family, and he might have remembered this and thought that he was being constructive, pointing out that there are other things in life to track racing. We just don't know the full story.

Even if she had indicated that she might want to start a family, that would be completely normal. Women bear children, it's a fact of life so they are likely to talk about one day "starting a family". It is not for Sutton to make a determination on when that might be or for him to tell her she has a "fat ass" and should go "off and have children" as if to imply that is all she is good for.

What Sutton might have or might have said to the male riders is irrelevant.

 

[Robert21]

Re: wooo.oh

You're right, we don't know the whole story so why are you offering these lame hpotheticals to defend him?

Why are people calling him a '"pig" , "misogynistic", "sickening" , saying he should be sacked and so on when they don't know the whole story?

I wonder what Varnish hopes to gain by these accusations? (Other then destroying Sutton's career in revenge for - perhaps - dropping her for questioning British Cycling's management, something that is common in the corporate world where 'malcontents' are generally regarded as being toxic with regards the efficient functioning of a team.)