Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

If Varnish had qualified for Rio then she would have continued to suffer the bullying in silence in order to not jeopardise her dream of going to the Olympics. I'm not sure why you consider this to be a good thing.

Where did I say Sutton's bullying of riders (and she has herself said that the men on the team don't get an easy time from him either) was a 'good thing'? I just pointed out that what has ultimately led to his demise is that his methods no longer seem to be delivering the results they once did, and this has led the team to more or less implode.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re: Re:

If Varnish had qualified for Rio then she would have continued to suffer the bullying in silence in order to not jeopardise her dream of going to the Olympics. I'm not sure why you consider this to be a good thing.

Where did I say Sutton's bullying of riders (and she has herself said that the men on the team don't get an easy time from him either) was a 'good thing'? I just pointed out that what has ultimately led to his demise is that his methods no longer seem to be delivering the results they once did, and this has led the team to more or less implode.

I'm sorry but your comment makes no sense. Britain topped the medal table at the recent world championships. Sutton is in trouble because he is a misogynistic pig.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Interested in what wrinklyvet and old crank think of this suspencion of one of the key members of the margil gains club.

*boot room*

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

I'm sorry but your comment makes no sense. Britain topped the medal table at the recent world championships. Sutton is in trouble because he is a misogynistic pig.

Fair enough. That article did talk about there being a 'crisis in the team' before all this blew up, but then again it was talking mainly about the sprinters. Not convinced that there is any proof that Sutton is a 'misogynist'. He's certainly seriously non-PC, so much so that BC might now consider him to be a liability. On the 'evidence' presented so far I'm not sure that his sacking is justified though, even if he did lose it and use a derogatory term to describe the disabled rider who nearly took out one of his sprinters.

Looking around, it does seem that the coach / athlete relationship is often a strained one, especially when the athlete fails to reach their goals, and a 'culture of bullying' is, if not the norm, common, even with female coaches.

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/06/kevin-pietersen-england-bullying-culture

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2014/03/13/are-reports-bullying-female-coaches-increasing-or-just-more-concerning

http://blog.oregonlive.com/behindbeaversbeat/2010/05/osu_coach_lavonda_wagner_built.html

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/are-tactics-of-coach-brilliant-or-bullying-2326371.html

That said, I'm not sure that Sutton can even be held to be guilty of true 'bullying', given that the definition of bullying includes the intent to cause harm.

 

[thehog]

Re:

I still have no idea whether he said it and, if he did, in what context.

There's a great temptation to criticise both Shane Sutton and his accuser, or one or the other. It's interesting to see Clinic members take sides. But, as Benotti once posted in response to me, the Clinic is not a popularity contest. So perhaps one should not hold the protagonists to a higher standard of thought, respect and action than ourselves. Though it would, I suppose, lead to a dull old time.

I suspect now, you'll probably want to delete this post

 

[Benotti69]

Nice guy Shane Sutton, a real nice guy...................

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

I still have no idea whether he said it and, if he did, in what context.

There's a great temptation to criticise both Shane Sutton and his accuser, or one or the other. It's interesting to see Clinic members take sides. But, as Benotti once posted in response to me, the Clinic is not a popularity contest. So perhaps one should not hold the protagonists to a higher standard of thought, respect and action than ourselves. Though it would, I suppose, lead to a dull old time.

I suspect now, you'll probably want to delete this post

Thanks for your "I told you so" post, but no, that's not my style.

No, I'm proud of having an open mind, even about brash Aussies. At the time I wrote it I certainly did not know what had been said, as he had denied it. The picture is clearer with other evidence. I have huge respect for Victoria Pendleton and also for Nicole Cooke. Their interventions are enough for me to be less open-minded than I was!

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I still have no idea whether he said it and, if he did, in what context.

There's a great temptation to criticise both Shane Sutton and his accuser, or one or the other. It's interesting to see Clinic members take sides. But, as Benotti once posted in response to me, the Clinic is not a popularity contest. So perhaps one should not hold the protagonists to a higher standard of thought, respect and action than ourselves. Though it would, I suppose, lead to a dull old time.

I suspect now, you'll probably want to delete this post

Thanks for your "I told you so" post, but no, that's not my style.

No, I'm proud of having an open mind, even about brash Aussies. At the time I wrote it I certainly did not know what had been said, as he had denied it. The picture is clearer with other evidence. I have huge respect for Victoria Pendleton and also for Nicole Cooke. Their interventions are enough for me to be less open-minded than I was!

I think Sutton is more than a 'brash Aussie'.

 

[sniper]

If one posts in the Clinic, if one knows a thing or two about cycling and doping, and if one *still* can't do the math on Shane...then I wanna know what cave one is living in.

btw, doesn't Sutton have a brother (father of...) high up in the Australian cycling federation?

I'm tempted to do the Ulrich math on that whole family.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I still have no idea whether he said it and, if he did, in what context.

There's a great temptation to criticise both Shane Sutton and his accuser, or one or the other. It's interesting to see Clinic members take sides. But, as Benotti once posted in response to me, the Clinic is not a popularity contest. So perhaps one should not hold the protagonists to a higher standard of thought, respect and action than ourselves. Though it would, I suppose, lead to a dull old time.

I suspect now, you'll probably want to delete this post

Thanks for your "I told you so" post, but no, that's not my style.

No, I'm proud of having an open mind, even about brash Aussies. At the time I wrote it I certainly did not know what had been said, as he had denied it. The picture is clearer with other evidence. I have huge respect for Victoria Pendleton and also for Nicole Cooke. Their interventions are enough for me to be less open-minded than I was!

I think Sutton is more than a 'brash Aussie'.

You see, now Sutton is Aussie, just like Froome will become Kenyan when he goes down.

Sutton is Birtish, he holds citizenship. He has not been in Australian for over 30 years, his values are from the UK. Period.

 

[goggalor]

Re: Re:

However, in this day and age and given his senior role in British Cycling, his approach clearly makes him a bit of a liability, even if he "has a heart of gold" and (according to Wiggins) "when he's on your side he's 100 per cent behind you and he will give you the world. He's the kind of guy you want in the trenches with you".

Of course he's great when he's on your side. He's just not very likely to be on your side if you're either female or disabled (or, god forbid, both).

 

[Benotti69]

Kelvin Batey claims Sutton almost ruined his life.....

https://twitter.com/KelvinBatey555/status/725230187164651524

 

[The Hitch]

Wow. He's great when he's on your side?

Is that how desperate the defense gets, or will it get even worse?

I mean, I'm pretty sure, Armstrong was also great when he was on your side. That's why so many were so loyal to him and why people like Walsh were so jealous.

Doesn't make the actions any less reprehensible.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

I still have no idea whether he said it and, if he did, in what context.

There's a great temptation to criticise both Shane Sutton and his accuser, or one or the other. It's interesting to see Clinic members take sides. But, as Benotti once posted in response to me, the Clinic is not a popularity contest. So perhaps one should not hold the protagonists to a higher standard of thought, respect and action than ourselves. Though it would, I suppose, lead to a dull old time.

I suspect now, you'll probably want to delete this post

Thanks for your "I told you so" post, but no, that's not my style.

No, I'm proud of having an open mind, even about brash Aussies. At the time I wrote it I certainly did not know what had been said, as he had denied it. The picture is clearer with other evidence. I have huge respect for Victoria Pendleton and also for Nicole Cooke. Their interventions are enough for me to be less open-minded than I was!

I think Sutton is more than a 'brash Aussie'.

You see, now Sutton is Aussie, just like Froome will become Kenyan when he goes down.

Sutton is Birtish, he holds citizenship. He has not been in Australian for over 30 years, his values are from the UK. Period.

I think you will find he claims his straight talking comes from who he is (and that includes his heritage). Our background does influence how we interact. But I am happy to be corrected about mentioning his roots. Australian, British or what doesn't really matter to me.

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Re:

I think Sutton is more than a 'brash Aussie'.

Brash aushole?

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I think you will find he claims his straight talking comes from who he is (and that includes his heritage). Our background does influence how we interact. But I am happy to be corrected about mentioning his roots. Australian, British or what doesn't really matter to me.

You are still failing to admit that he is a despicable human being.

 

[sniper]

Re:

Kelvin Batey claims Sutton almost ruined his life.....

https://twitter.com/KelvinBatey555/status/725230187164651524

any idea what hes referring to?

that a bully like Sutton has been able to hold such a position of power within BC tells you all you need to know about BC.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Glad he's been suspended, good riddance. What a disrespectful POS.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Kelvin Batey claims Sutton almost ruined his life.....

https://twitter.com/KelvinBatey555/status/725230187164651524

any idea what hes referring to?

that a bully like Sutton has been able to hold such a position of power within BC tells you all you need to know about BC.

I guess we will know soon enough. Hope TeamGB have some lottery money for good lawyers....

 

[Farcanal]

Re: Re:

I still have no idea whether he said it and, if he did, in what context.

There's a great temptation to criticise both Shane Sutton and his accuser, or one or the other. It's interesting to see Clinic members take sides. But, as Benotti once posted in response to me, the Clinic is not a popularity contest. So perhaps one should not hold the protagonists to a higher standard of thought, respect and action than ourselves. Though it would, I suppose, lead to a dull old time.

I suspect now, you'll probably want to delete this post

Thanks for your "I told you so" post, but no, that's not my style.

No, I'm proud of having an open mind, even about brash Aussies. At the time I wrote it I certainly did not know what had been said, as he had denied it. The picture is clearer with other evidence. I have huge respect for Victoria Pendleton and also for Nicole Cooke. Their interventions are enough for me to be less open-minded than I was!

I think Sutton is more than a 'brash Aussie'.

Yeah, you're right. He's a typical aussie

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Kelvin Batey claims Sutton almost ruined his life.....

https://twitter.com/KelvinBatey555/status/725230187164651524

any idea what hes referring to?

that a bully like Sutton has been able to hold such a position of power within BC tells you all you need to know about BC.

He dates Maria Fowler from the only way is Essex. He rode for BC for a while then changed to Ireland.

Despite having earned a spot at the World Championships for Team GB prior to Beijing, British Cycling proceeded to hold an Olympic trial in Switzerland for the allotted position.

Batey went on to crash, suffering serious injuries which caused him to lose the qualification race and end his hopes of an Olympic appearance.

"That whole situation left a bad taste in my mouth. The poor handling of the whole thing beat me down physically and mentally and caused huge uproar amongst the BMX community."

Qualification for London 2012 wasn’t much better.

"At the World Championships in Birmingham in May of that year I was in the qualifying race and it was 'on-the-day qualifications'.

"I had my spot in the bag really, I was leading coming around the second turn and got taken out by a Dutch rider [Twan van Gendt] who had already qualified.

"I just needed a fourth place in that race and I was already in third before I was taken out and crashed.

"Once again I was so close and yet didn’t quite make it."

Crashes aren’t uncommon in BMX, which is considered to be a contact sport of sorts, but he insists that riders rarely go out to collide with one another.

"There is some contact, but it’s not a free-for-all. There are rules and regulations that you have to stick to.

After his 2008 fallout with Team GB Batey decided to look elsewhere to follow his Olympic dream.

"My mother was adopted as a baby and she had found her real parents over here. She said: 'Why don’t you go over and ride for Ireland?'"

"I just thought, you know what? I’m going to do that.

"I contacted Cycling Ireland and we got a passport rushed through. I said to them at the time, it’s not just about pulling the jersey on now, it’s about developing the sport here in Ireland.
Since becoming part of Cycling Ireland, Batey has become an integral part of the development of the sport here in Ireland.

"My experience was one of the things I wanted to bring to it. At the time there was no Irish international rider.

"I thought with me racing abroad and doing well that it’d bring some publicity to the sport. It’d give it a little bit more in Ireland."

Even with his dedication to the Irish cycling scene, Batey now has his sights set firmly on Rio.

"About a year ago now I decided I was going to go for Rio 2016, because I just missed out on London 2012.

"I decided to give it all my energy and train full time for it and Ireland are really backing me again. I’m training hard, so I’m getting ready for next year.

http://www.newstalk.com/I-might-not-have-the-accent-but-Im-as-proud-as-I-can-be-to-ride-for-this-country

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

I think you will find he claims his straight talking comes from who he is (and that includes his heritage). Our background does influence how we interact. But I am happy to be corrected about mentioning his roots. Australian, British or what doesn't really matter to me.

You are still failing to admit that he is a despicable human being.

Correct. I didn't say that. You now presume to tell me what I should say? How did that come about? I said I am less open-minded than I was and you will find it is a British trait to understate the position.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I think you will find he claims his straight talking comes from who he is (and that includes his heritage). Our background does influence how we interact. But I am happy to be corrected about mentioning his roots. Australian, British or what doesn't really matter to me.

You are still failing to admit that he is a despicable human being.

Correct. I didn't say that. You now presume to tell me what I should say? How did that come about? I said I am less open-minded than I was and you will find it is a British trait to understate the position.

Do you think its ok to call disabled people who work for you, "gimps"?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Re: Re:

I think you will find he claims his straight talking comes from who he is (and that includes his heritage). Our background does influence how we interact. But I am happy to be corrected about mentioning his roots. Australian, British or what doesn't really matter to me.

You are still failing to admit that he is a despicable human being.

Correct. I didn't say that. You now presume to tell me what I should say? How did that come about? I said I am less open-minded than I was and you will find it is a British trait to understate the position.

Do you think its ok to call disabled people who work for you, "gimps"?

Of course not. Who is being investigated here? You know full well that no poster has any obligation to express any opinion. If anybody does so, it is a gift to others, not their right.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

I think you will find he claims his straight talking comes from who he is (and that includes his heritage). Our background does influence how we interact. But I am happy to be corrected about mentioning his roots. Australian, British or what doesn't really matter to me.

You are still failing to admit that he is a despicable human being.

Correct. I didn't say that. You now presume to tell me what I should say? How did that come about? I said I am less open-minded than I was and you will find it is a British trait to understate the position.

Do you think its ok to call disabled people who work for you, "gimps"?

Of course not. Who is being investigated here? You know full well that no poster has any obligation to express any opinion. If anybody does so, it is a gift to others, not their right.

Sounds like the strong foundation and respect that Brian Cookson built at British Cycling has been carried through to the UCI. Good work all round