Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

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May 26, 2010
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wrinklyvet said:
Why, to earn your approval? Go whistle.

What I said was, "No, I don't defend the guy. So much has come out about him from publicly quoted and attributed sources in the last few days that probably only he will want to do that."

Can't see where I am going with that? Is it over-subtle?

I have stuff to do and no more time to waste.

Simple. Sutton's behaviour was despicable.

"Not defending the guy" not the same as saying Sutton was "despicable".

Your love affair with Sutton shines through. Don't call it off if he means that much to you. Try and work it out first, people can change.............
 
May 26, 2010
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Robert21 said:

Does that make Sutton's behaviour acceptable?

I don't think so. To point to worse examples is demonstrating what exactly?
 
Jun 14, 2010
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thehog said:
Robert21 said:
thehog said:
How long before he joins team Sky? :eek:
I would have thought that if a job isn't lined up for him somewhere, then there would be nothing to stop him from 'doing a Varnish' and blowing the whole of BC / Sky out of the water with some backroom revelations. If no job and no revelations materialise, I guess this is suggests that BC and Sky are clean after all. :)


Don't worry, he can become a hedge fund advisor :rolleyes: We live in a strange world of the BC money train...

The career of Shane Sutton, technical director of Great Britain’s cycling team, took an unusual turn in April. As well as helping elite cyclists shave vital seconds off race times, he started advising two of the UK’s biggest asset management companies.

GLG Partners, a subsidiary of the world’s biggest listed hedge fund manager Man Group, and Schroders, Europe’s second largest independent asset management group, hired Mr Sutton in the belief that he could boost their investment performance.

“It may seem odd that a cycling coach is advising fund managers. But in both cycling and business, decisions are about emotions and behaviour – and everything is driven by numbers,” says Mr Sutton, who cycled in the Tour de France and won a gold medal for Australia in the Commonwealth Games before switching to coaching in 1997.

Sir Bradley Wiggins, the first British winner of the Tour de France in 2012, was “obsessed by numbers”, he adds.

The career twist of Mr Sutton highlights how asset management is changing, particularly at some traditional investment groups, which are ditching simple stockpicking techniques and adopting strategies used by their racier hedge fund cousins.

https://next.ft.com/content/3d9bb4aa-587a-11e4-a31b-00144feab7de

I don't know how the well known drug rabbits at hedge funds will mesh with the ferociously anti doping personality of Mr Shane ztp Sutton.

Still, it's a bizzare story. Why is a new York hedge fund hiring him?
 

thehog

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Jul 27, 2009
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Benotti69 said:
Brodie O'Donnell @Bridie_OD

"it took years for AUS riders to finally reveal the damage done by Charlie Walsh & his occasional 'genius' coaching tactics that ruined many..."

Seems the Aussie's don't accept that behaviour.


Well, the Aussies did put up with Charlie's behavior for a long time because he like Sutton (Brailsford) was bringing home the medals. However the same issues ensued over time. He treated the women as second rate - Kathy Watt being one.

I will also say that there are a lot of male cyclists from the Walsh period who will never recover, Gary Neiwand and Martin Vinniecombe are irreparablely damaged psychologically. A horrible, horrible period for many.

Sadly British Cycling and Brailsford based their track team on the model Charlie created at the AIS. Nothing to be proud of.
 
Jun 14, 2010
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pastronef said:
oh dear, Digger and Vayerism arguing on twitter with Sutton´s wife.

Just checked it out.

Looks like suttons wife got involved herself. They didn't mention her at all. Vayerism made a harmless tweet and she responded.
 
Aug 24, 2011
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I have little doubt he will be picked up by either Sky or more likely Team Wiggins (the latter as a holding pattern until the heat dies down then quietly move to Sky)
 
May 26, 2010
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Catwhoorg said:
I have little doubt he will be picked up by either Sky or more likely Team Wiggins (the latter as a holding pattern until the heat dies down then quietly move to Sky)

My first thought was TeamWiggins, funded by Sky while still working part time with sky unofficially.
 
Aug 31, 2012
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That FT article is mind blowing.
GLG Partners, a subsidiary of the world’s biggest listed hedge fund manager Man Group, and Schroders, Europe’s second largest independent asset management group, hired Mr Sutton in the belief that he could boost their investment performance.

You've got to be *** kidding me.

I think I'm going to quit my phd and transition towards being a fraudulent cycling coach :rolleyes:
 

thehog

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SeriousSam said:
That FT article is mind blowing.
GLG Partners, a subsidiary of the world’s biggest listed hedge fund manager Man Group, and Schroders, Europe’s second largest independent asset management group, hired Mr Sutton in the belief that he could boost their investment performance.

You've got to be **** kidding me.

I think I'm going to quit my phd and transition towards being a fraudulent cycling coach :rolleyes:

To assist you further in dropping out of your PhD, Sutton used to get 10-25k GBP for speaking engagements, but since this morning JLA have pulled his profile.

The British Cycling cash cow, although only coaches can make all the money :rolleyes:

df91t4.jpg
 
Jul 3, 2014
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Benotti69 said:
Shane Sutton called paralympians "Gimps" and "Wobblies".....despicable, never mind his sexism.

Technically off topic in a doping forum, but I guess it is part of the wider story (whether you believe it or not).
 
Jun 10, 2010
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SeriousSam said:
That FT article is mind blowing.
GLG Partners, a subsidiary of the world’s biggest listed hedge fund manager Man Group, and Schroders, Europe’s second largest independent asset management group, hired Mr Sutton in the belief that he could boost their investment performance.

You've got to be **** kidding me.

I think I'm going to quit my phd and transition towards being a fraudulent cycling coach :rolleyes:
Next they'll get Aaron Brown.
 
Jun 14, 2010
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thehog said:
SeriousSam said:
That FT article is mind blowing.
GLG Partners, a subsidiary of the world’s biggest listed hedge fund manager Man Group, and Schroders, Europe’s second largest independent asset management group, hired Mr Sutton in the belief that he could boost their investment performance.

You've got to be **** kidding me.

I think I'm going to quit my phd and transition towards being a fraudulent cycling coach :rolleyes:

To assist you further in dropping out of your PhD, Sutton used to get 10-25k GBP for speaking engagements, but since this morning JLA have pulled his profile.

The British Cycling cash cow, although only coaches can make all the money :rolleyes:

df91t4.jpg
Idiots paying to see snake oil salesmen is nothing new. Frauds like that have been going on for centuries.

But you'd expect hedge funds to be able to see past a scam like that.
 
May 26, 2010
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TheSpud said:
Benotti69 said:
Shane Sutton called paralympians "Gimps" and "Wobblies".....despicable, never mind his sexism.

Technically off topic in a doping forum, but I guess it is part of the wider story (whether you believe it or not).

When a coach does not care a fig for the proper way to behave it is related to the clinic.

Whether you believe it or not!
 

thehog

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Worth printing in full from Jenny Copnall;


Jenny Copnall, April 2016

Following track rider Jess Varnish’s response to being dropped from the GB Track Cycling Team, which questioned British Cycling’s Head of Performance’s approach to Olympic qualification strategy, selection of riders and treatment of female riders, it feels pertinent to consider British Cycling’s approach relevant to MTB XCO {That’s ‘Cross Country Olympic’ – what we know as regular XC racing – Ed}. What follows is a combination of opinion and fact from my 24 years at the top of the sport in the UK.

During the period 1998 until now, we have seen a severe tightening of selection criteria for major championships. Prior to 1998, British Cycling would fill all available places at World Championships, funding the better riders and offering the others the chance to race if they could self-fund. For most World Championships this was entirely feasible and our top British riders would round out their year by representing GB at the Worlds. They had earned this right by being in the top five or six British riders. In 1998 things tightened up. All riders would now be funded but, as a result, the number of selected places dropped. However, there were still 3 women taken to that year’s World Championships in Mt St Anne – I know because, aged 22, I was selected for the GB team. After 1998 selection criteria moved about, sometimes being based on World Cup placings, sometimes on being within a percentage of the finishing time of the winner of World Cup races, sometimes being based on UCI points gained. Until 2004 the selection criteria remained just about tangible, although my selection for Les Gets in 2004 had to go to appeal when BC failed to include a haul of UCI points I had gained while racing World Cups in North America. After that, and likely as a result of my forcing them to reverse a decision, they removed tangible qualification criteria altogether, and major championship qualification, along with gaining a place on World Class, became “discretionary”. This meant that a non BC funded / produced rider could be discretionarily not selected, while a BC funded and produced rider could be discretionally selected, regardless of which rider had finished ahead of the other in competitions. In 2006, having won every BMBS round, the British National XCO Champs, the British National Marathon Champs, and having never been beaten at home or abroad by a UK rider, I was discretionally not selected for the World Championships. BC decided to discretionally select a New Zealand based British rider instead, who had never then nor since finished ahead of me in a competition.

So we reached 2007 and a home World Championships at Fort William. BC did not select any senior women for the race, while selecting various male riders based on both domestic and international results. One rider had not even raced outside the UK that year. I was told that I had been selected to ride the relay on the Thursday. When I discovered that the UCI had a rule stating that all riders in the relay must also be racing in their own races (in other words, you could not bring a relay-specific squad), I thought BC would relent. Instead Dave Brailsford, then Head of Performance alongside Shane Sutton, emailed me back to answer this query. Yes, he said, that was indeed the rule and BC would enter me into the World Championship Senior Women’s race. However, they would withdraw me from the race after the relay on the grounds of being unwell or injured. I found this unbelievable. Not only did BC not want any women to race at their home World Championships, they were prepared to break UCI rules to prevent that from happening. They were prepared to fund all aspects of my trip to Scotland to race the relay, but not prepared to let me stay around to race. Why on earth would that be their stance? To this day I can only conclude that it was as simple as me being a self-produced rider, who spoke her mind and challenged their decisions. I had, on various occasions, been seen to “show up” their funded riders by beating them when riding for GB, and the British Championships each year had become my proving ground where, time and again, I fended off a funded rider to take the crown. I guess they didn’t want to be shown up anymore. This aspect is pertinent now with Jess Varnish who is out to prove them wrong. BC will do anything they can to prevent her being able to do this.

In the end, due to a multi-pronged approach on my part, BC made a late call to reverse the 2007 selection and ended up allowing the full quota of riders to race in both the men’s and the women’s races. This was a victory of sorts, and I was happy to see the women getting their chance to race a home Worlds in GB kit, along with a few extra men, as a result of my battle. Interestingly it was only Nick Craig who came and thanked me for enabling this, recognising the emotional toll it had taken on me. To this day I appreciate that. Of course, much as I hoped it would not be the case, my race was poor. I was utterly exhausted from the weeks of fighting with BC, of battling to get the story out, of dealing with the media, of sleepless nights, and, at times, utter despondency. I was, at the time, four times British Champion having retained the title, a week before the decision to exclude me was made, with a superbly authoritative ride at Newnham Park. I should not have had to go through all that to be able to ride my home World Champs, or any World Champs for that matter.

In the past year, with the support of nearly all former female British National Champions, our Marathon Worlds medallist, our former DH World Champion, former Olympians, and the unanimous support of the Mountain Bike Endurance Commission at British Cycling (of which I am, at time of writing, a part) we took to the Board of British Cycling a request that the British senior men’s and women’s National Champion should gain the automatic right to race at that year’s World Championship. (This is shown below). This could be in a self-funded capacity and only if the Worlds Quota allowed. If World Class is working properly then this rider would already be selected since you would imagine they’d be a BC funded rider already. Regardless, we are talking about a maximum of two automatic selections. The Board turned it down. The thought of losing that complete power of discretionary selection was clearly too much for the Head of Performance, Mr Shane Sutton.

http://singletrackworld.com/columns/2016/04/pro-xc-racer-jenny-copnall-speaks-out-at-british-cycling/
 
Jul 24, 2009
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This "affair" is adding a bit of a new plot twist to
the latest Sir Brad doco currently in production.
It should make for some compelling viewing in a
few months down the road. I can't wait for it! :)
 
Mar 13, 2009
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oldcrank said:
This "affair" is adding a bit of a new plot twist to
the latest Sir Brad doco currently in production.
It should make for some compelling viewing in a
few months down the road. I can't wait for it! :)

arent all anglophone national teams like this.

i remember Renshaw was persona non grata for a while. I remember that Zolder worlds where Mcewen could not get finishing support from Cooke and Ogrady, lets face it, they prolly could not have delivered him like azzurri and velo and peta and cipo, or the germans, even tho Robbie Mac headbutted Ete Zabel off Cipo's wheel. Think the yanks and the kiwis have similar problems. too political when type A's want leadership and support, Gerro v Matthews
 
May 23, 2009
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Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Dont want to be a party pooper, but, do you guys know how it works in the top of sports? Yes, it is of inhuman, but, thats how it works, worked for decades.

My question is, who did Shane piss off so much he is now being dropped by British Cycling? It sure as hell cant be the bullocks of the female cyclist.
This man was a notorious sexist at Cycling Australia, playing heavy favourites with male and female riders and ruined careers. He has continued to do the same at BC. There are more people coming out to back up Varnish now that their careers are over and the list will only grow.
 
May 23, 2009
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blackcat said:
oldcrank said:
This "affair" is adding a bit of a new plot twist to
the latest Sir Brad doco currently in production.
It should make for some compelling viewing in a
few months down the road. I can't wait for it! :)

arent all anglophone national teams like this.

i remember Renshaw was persona non grata for a while. I remember that Zolder worlds where Mcewen could not get finishing support from Cooke and Ogrady, lets face it, they prolly could not have delivered him like azzurri and velo and peta and cipo, or the germans, even tho Robbie Mac headbutted Ete Zabel off Cipo's wheel. Think the yanks and the kiwis have similar problems. too political when type A's want leadership and support, Gerro v Matthews
The Matthews/Gerrans incidents that keep surfacing are down to one thing - Gerrans' ego. Unfortunately he's now a far cry from the likeable young man who rode aggressively for stage wins and chanced his luck in the Ardennes.

Coincidentally it was about the same time he went to Sky as a leader for the hilly classics, but that's another discussion.
 
May 23, 2009
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TheSpud said:
Benotti69 said:
Shane Sutton called paralympians "Gimps" and "Wobblies".....despicable, never mind his sexism.

Technically off topic in a doping forum, but I guess it is part of the wider story (whether you believe it or not).
The thing is..... this did happen. Whether you believe it......or not.
 
Jul 24, 2009
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42x16ss said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Dont want to be a party pooper, but, do you guys know how it works in the top of sports? Yes, it is of inhuman, but, thats how it works, worked for decades.

My question is, who did Shane piss off so much he is now being dropped by British Cycling? It sure as hell cant be the bullocks of the female cyclist.
This man was a notorious sexist at Cycling Australia, playing heavy favourites with male and female riders and ruined careers. He has continued to do the same at BC. There are more people coming out to back up Varnish now that their careers are over and the list will only grow.
Please, my friend, tell us of one or two careers he "ruined" while "at Cycling Australia."
I'm sure you are aware of several, but just tell us about one or two, if you don't mind,
because it could strengthen the case against him. :)
 
Mar 13, 2009
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oldcrank said:
42x16ss said:
Fearless Greg Lemond said:
Dont want to be a party pooper, but, do you guys know how it works in the top of sports? Yes, it is of inhuman, but, thats how it works, worked for decades.

My question is, who did Shane piss off so much he is now being dropped by British Cycling? It sure as hell cant be the bullocks of the female cyclist.
This man was a notorious sexist at Cycling Australia, playing heavy favourites with male and female riders and ruined careers. He has continued to do the same at BC. There are more people coming out to back up Varnish now that their careers are over and the list will only grow.
Please, my friend, tell us of one or two careers he "ruined" while "at Cycling Australia."
I'm sure you are aware of several, but just tell us about one or two, if you don't mind,
because it could strengthen the case against him.

was the establishment at all complicit in Dajka? I appreciate you cant blame the act on CA, but what happened here