Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

there is a big difference between;

“keeping pushing, harder, another lap under 44 seconds, c’mon, don’t stop, never give up!”

compared to;

...“you’re being cut from the team ‘cos you’re a** is too fat"

That is the sort of mob-mentality misinformation that I am criticising. He never said any such thing, and Varnish herself never said he did. They were simply discussing what position she should ride in. This is what Varnish actually said:

After 2012 I was told that, “with an ass like mine I couldn’t change position within the team sprint”. It basically implies the stronger woman has to go in “man one” position because I’m quite glute dominant, shall we say.’ "

No suggestion from anyone that the size of her backside had anything to do with her been dropped from the team, and the word 'fat' wasn't used at all. (The word 'fat' was added by the the UK newspapers to create a more click-worthy headline.) Still, if such claims 'fits the narrative', what price the truth, eh?

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

there is a big difference between;

“keeping pushing, harder, another lap under 44 seconds, c’mon, don’t stop, never give up!”

compared to;

...“you’re being cut from the team ‘cos you’re a** is too fat"

That is the sort of mob-mentality misinformation that I am criticising. He never said any such thing, and Varnish herself never said he did. They were simply discussing what position she should ride in. This is what Varnish actually said:

After 2012 I was told that, “with an *** like mine I couldn’t change position within the team sprint”. It basically implies the stronger woman has to go in “man one” position because I’m quite glute dominant, shall we say.’ "

No suggestion from anyone that the size of her backside had anything to do with her been dropped from the team, and the word 'fat' wasn't used at all. (The word 'fat' was added by the the UK newspapers to create a more click-worthy headline.) Still, if such claims 'fits the narrative', what price the truth, eh?

at a guess the Hogs paraphrasing is on the mild side....

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

there is a big difference between;

“keeping pushing, harder, another lap under 44 seconds, c’mon, don’t stop, never give up!”

compared to;

...“you’re being cut from the team ‘cos you’re a** is too fat"

That is the sort of mob-mentality misinformation that I am criticising. He never said any such thing, and Varnish herself never said he did. They were simply discussing what position she should ride in. This is what Varnish actually said:

After 2012 I was told that, “with an *** like mine I couldn’t change position within the team sprint”. It basically implies the stronger woman has to go in “man one” position because I’m quite glute dominant, shall we say.’ "

No suggestion from anyone that the size of her backside had anything to do with her been dropped from the team, and the word 'fat' wasn't used at all. (The word 'fat' was added by the the UK newspapers to create a more click-worthy headline.) Still, if such claims 'fits the narrative', what price the truth, eh?

Mob mentality, don't get carried away with yourself. There is more than 1 athlete coming forward about bullying and abusive remarks. He was suspended and then resigned rather than wait and clear his name. Tells us a lot.

 

[thehog]

Wiggins as transparent as ever...

One topic Wiggins isn’t keen on discussing, however, is the controversy surrounding former British Cycling director — and longtime Wiggins mentor — Shane Sutton, who resigned last month amid allegations of discrimination.

During the pre-race press conference, a question to Wiggins on the subject was deflected by the moderator, who insisted all questions stay related to the event. During a more exclusive interview, 30 minutes later, a representative from Wiggins’ management group, Simon Fuller’s XIX Entertainment, explained that Wiggins would not be addressing the topic.

http://cyclingtips.com/2016/05/a-changed-man-wiggins-returns-to-california-heavier-and-seemingly-happier/

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

there is a big difference between;

“keeping pushing, harder, another lap under 44 seconds, c’mon, don’t stop, never give up!”

compared to;

...“you’re being cut from the team ‘cos you’re a** is too fat"

That is the sort of mob-mentality misinformation that I am criticising. He never said any such thing, and Varnish herself never said he did. They were simply discussing what position she should ride in. This is what Varnish actually said:

After 2012 I was told that, “with an *** like mine I couldn’t change position within the team sprint”. It basically implies the stronger woman has to go in “man one” position because I’m quite glute dominant, shall we say.’ "

No suggestion from anyone that the size of her backside had anything to do with her been dropped from the team, and the word 'fat' wasn't used at all. (The word 'fat' was added by the the UK newspapers to create a more click-worthy headline.) Still, if such claims 'fits the narrative', what price the truth, eh?

Mob mentality, don't get carried away with yourself. There is more than 1 athlete coming forward about bullying and abusive remarks. He was suspended and then resigned rather than wait and clear his name. Tells us a lot.

reckon there's more to this bit than meets the eye... not suggesting he's not been the a-hole he's been, only that his "resignation" or 'push' could be PR and damage control by BC. I doubt he's the only one who's been a sexist pr*ck to the women riders - sacrificial lamb?
"sh*t, this could get bad on us. I know, we can throw the colonial to them. They're tear him to pieces and leave the rest of us be..."

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

reckon there's more to this bit than meets the eye... not suggesting he's not been the a-hole he's been, only that his "resignation" or 'push' could be PR and damage control by BC. I doubt he's the only one who's been a sexist pr*ck to the women riders - sacrificial lamb?
"sh*t, this could get bad on us. I know, we can throw the colonial to them. They're tear him to pieces and leave the rest of us be..."

There is something in what you say, but I would see it as more being a case of covering up poor management, rather than institutionalised 'sexism'.

Someone should have implemented a strategy that ensured people like Sutton were fully aware of the need to watch their backs and to protect themselves by been seen to be 'politically correct'. Saying to Sutton something like,

"Just a word Shane. You know how these days young women especially are brought up to see everything that happens in the world as being evidence of 'sexism', and that any allegations of 'sexist' behaviour, no matter how unfounded, are likely to see the end of someones career, like that Tim Hunt bloke. Well, it would probably be a good idea to stop talking to the women on the squad the same way as you talk to the blokes. Forget all this stuff about women wanting to be treated just like men are and instead pretend this is the 1800's, treating the women on the team with constant, guarded deference. Oh, and I know that the disabled riders constantly take the rip out of each other calling themselves 'the wobblies' and so on, but don't join in. I know that most everyone out there, if they were honest, would admit that they would prefer to watch Paris-Roubaix or a mountain stage of the Tour than an event for disabled athletes, no matter how worthy they are in their own right, but for appearances sake don't let anyone think that you think the same way."

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Varnish "nailing" her claim again to be selected for Rio
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36309473

 

[Robert21]

Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36309473

Varnish.. claims that, during the two-year Olympic qualifying process, she:

...consistently performed in the top five in the world for lap-one times in the team sprint;

Problem is, aren't people selected to go the the games on the basis that they have a realistic chance of winning a medal, not because they might finish in fifth place?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36309473

Varnish.. claims that, during the two-year Olympic qualifying process, she:

...consistently performed in the top five in the world for lap-one times in the team sprint;

Problem is, aren't people selected to go the the games on the basis that they have a realistic chance of winning a medal, not finishing fifth?

Clearly you're not aware of fhe Olympic motto, whereby taking part, is winning

I guess if you think disabled people are "gimps" then you wouldn't think like that, enter Shane Sutton.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36309473

Varnish.. claims that, during the two-year Olympic qualifying process, she:

...consistently performed in the top five in the world for lap-one times in the team sprint;

Problem is, aren't people selected to go the the games on the basis that they have a realistic chance of winning a medal, not because they might finish in fifth place?

And how many (if any) of the other top 4 are British? Chances are at least one other will be Australian, then there's Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, USA etc.

Might want to rethink that argument

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36309473

Varnish.. claims that, during the two-year Olympic qualifying process, she:

...consistently performed in the top five in the world for lap-one times in the team sprint;

Problem is, aren't people selected to go the the games on the basis that they have a realistic chance of winning a medal, not because they might finish in fifth place?

And how many (if any) of the other top 4 are British? Chances are at least one other will be Australian, then there's Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, USA etc.

Might want to rethink that argument

Robert21 reads like a British Cycling damage control PR initiative, rather than a generalist discussion on a forum. What the hell!?

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36309473

Varnish.. claims that, during the two-year Olympic qualifying process, she:

...consistently performed in the top five in the world for lap-one times in the team sprint;

Problem is, aren't people selected to go the the games on the basis that they have a realistic chance of winning a medal, not because they might finish in fifth place?

why bother with the Games at all...just lab test and the top three in the world for every event get to go to fight out the medals

oh what a joyous world we could inhabit.....

bit like the 'friendly' Commie Games...not sure why the Brits don't exclude all those crap nations that would never win a medal (see Glasgow RR)..waste of time and money...nobodies...

 

[gillan1969]

Re: Re:

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36309473

Varnish.. claims that, during the two-year Olympic qualifying process, she:

...consistently performed in the top five in the world for lap-one times in the team sprint;

Problem is, aren't people selected to go the the games on the basis that they have a realistic chance of winning a medal, not because they might finish in fifth place?

And how many (if any) of the other top 4 are British? Chances are at least one other will be Australian, then there's Germany, Netherlands, New Zealand, USA etc.

Might want to rethink that argument

Robert21 reads like a British Cycling damage control PR initiative, rather than a generalist discussion on a forum. What the hell!?

....or a lover spurned

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Bump:
Victoria Pendleton: corrosive culture forced me out of cycling
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/26/victoria-pendleton-olympics-shane-sutton

Pendleton confirmed that the way she was treated by Sutton and the culture at British Cycling had played “a big part” in her decision to retire. “I couldn’t stay working with those people,” she said. “If, four years ago, they’d made the changes that they’ve made now, I would’ve been a lot happier and probably would’ve performed better.”


Pendleton said it was a “real shame” and “shortsighted” not to consider Varnish for the team: “She’s got way more talent than I ever had. She’s much more physically gifted and mentally resilient.”

 

[Nick C.]

Re:

Bump:
Victoria Pendleton: corrosive culture forced me out of cycling
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/26/victoria-pendleton-olympics-shane-sutton

Pendleton confirmed that the way she was treated by Sutton and the culture at British Cycling had played “a big part” in her decision to retire. “I couldn’t stay working with those people,” she said. “If, four years ago, they’d made the changes that they’ve made now, I would’ve been a lot happier and probably would’ve performed better.”


Pendleton said it was a “real shame” and “shortsighted” not to consider Varnish for the team: “She’s got way more talent than I ever had. She’s much more physically gifted and mentally resilient.”

Thanks for the link. It would have been nice if whoever wrote the article asked her for why and what rather than just conclusions.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Bump:
Victoria Pendleton: corrosive culture forced me out of cycling
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/26/victoria-pendleton-olympics-shane-sutton

Pendleton confirmed that the way she was treated by Sutton and the culture at British Cycling had played “a big part” in her decision to retire. “I couldn’t stay working with those people,” she said. “If, four years ago, they’d made the changes that they’ve made now, I would’ve been a lot happier and probably would’ve performed better.”


Pendleton said it was a “real shame” and “shortsighted” not to consider Varnish for the team: “She’s got way more talent than I ever had. She’s much more physically gifted and mentally resilient.”

Thanks for the link. It would have been nice if whoever wrote the article asked her for why and what rather than just conclusions.

It's been well established on the "why". It's doesn't need to be repeated again. Pendleton is confirming her decision to retire based on Suttons behaviour.

 

[sniper]

And that's from a woman who probably hopes to stay connected to the sport in some way and thus knows the importance of not spitting in the soup.
Those testimonies from her and others are probably mollified versions of what really went on there.

 

[Nick C.]

Re: Re:

Bump:
Victoria Pendleton: corrosive culture forced me out of cycling
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/26/victoria-pendleton-olympics-shane-sutton

Pendleton confirmed that the way she was treated by Sutton and the culture at British Cycling had played “a big part” in her decision to retire. “I couldn’t stay working with those people,” she said. “If, four years ago, they’d made the changes that they’ve made now, I would’ve been a lot happier and probably would’ve performed better.”


Pendleton said it was a “real shame” and “shortsighted” not to consider Varnish for the team: “She’s got way more talent than I ever had. She’s much more physically gifted and mentally resilient.”

Thanks for the link. It would have been nice if whoever wrote the article asked her for why and what rather than just conclusions.

It's been well established on the "why". It's doesn't need to be repeated again. Pendleton is confirming her decision to retire based on Suttons behaviour.

If I had to ask, then what exactly happened isn't that well established. If not against her just the fluffy article, but I guess that's "journalism" in this day and age. Maybe I am just getting old and forgetting what I read elsewhere last month.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Bump:
Victoria Pendleton: corrosive culture forced me out of cycling
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/26/victoria-pendleton-olympics-shane-sutton

Pendleton confirmed that the way she was treated by Sutton and the culture at British Cycling had played “a big part” in her decision to retire. “I couldn’t stay working with those people,” she said. “If, four years ago, they’d made the changes that they’ve made now, I would’ve been a lot happier and probably would’ve performed better.”


Pendleton said it was a “real shame” and “shortsighted” not to consider Varnish for the team: “She’s got way more talent than I ever had. She’s much more physically gifted and mentally resilient.”

Thanks for the link. It would have been nice if whoever wrote the article asked her for why and what rather than just conclusions.

It's been well established on the "why". It's doesn't need to be repeated again. Pendleton is confirming her decision to retire based on Suttons behaviour.

If I had to ask, then what exactly happened isn't that well established. If not against her just the fluffy article, but I guess that's "journalism" in this day and age. Maybe I am just getting old and forgetting what I read elsewhere last month.

Maybe it's because you don't know how the World Wide Web works? Contained in the very article are "hyperlinks", when the article references why Pendleton and Varish are upset you can click on that link and it takes you back to the original story. It even references the article on when Sutton called disabled athletes "gimps" - you can click on that hyper link as well.

Genius isn't it? Example below.

So not fluffy but a short and concise piece which allows you to dig deeper if you feel inclined.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Bump:
Victoria Pendleton: corrosive culture forced me out of cycling
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/may/26/victoria-pendleton-olympics-shane-sutton

Pendleton confirmed that the way she was treated by Sutton and the culture at British Cycling had played “a big part” in her decision to retire. “I couldn’t stay working with those people,” she said. “If, four years ago, they’d made the changes that they’ve made now, I would’ve been a lot happier and probably would’ve performed better.”


Pendleton said it was a “real shame” and “shortsighted” not to consider Varnish for the team: “She’s got way more talent than I ever had. She’s much more physically gifted and mentally resilient.”

Thanks for the link. It would have been nice if whoever wrote the article asked her for why and what rather than just conclusions.

It's been well established on the "why". It's doesn't need to be repeated again. Pendleton is confirming her decision to retire based on Suttons behaviour.

If I had to ask, then what exactly happened isn't that well established. If not against her just the fluffy article, but I guess that's "journalism" in this day and age. Maybe I am just getting old and forgetting what I read elsewhere last month.

It is also the horrendous litigation laws in England. She was probably a lot more truthful than the Guardian, a paper in serious debt, would risk publishing.

 

[Nick C.]

Considering what happened in Kimmage's case anything is possible. Unfortunately the magical links leave me just as uninformed on what exactly Victoria Pendelton claims drove her away as I was before I saw the article. Oh well, I'll live.

 

[sniper]

well well

Sir Robin Bogg
‏@robinbogg

@rogerc32 @manutdinsights You 2 (1) are going to feel pretty stupid when it's revealed Sutton recommended Varnish take an illegal epidural

https://twitter.com/robinbogg/status/725588538981490688

 

[thehog]

Re:

well well

Sir Robin Bogg
‏@robinbogg

@rogerc32 @manutdinsights You 2 (1) are going to feel pretty stupid when it's revealed Sutton recommended Varnish take an illegal epidural

https://twitter.com/robinbogg/status/725588538981490688

Don't know if this account is parody or not but if true Walsh will look fairly stupid.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re:

well well

Sir Robin Bogg
‏@robinbogg

@rogerc32 @manutdinsights You 2 (1) are going to feel pretty stupid when it's revealed Sutton recommended Varnish take an illegal epidural

https://twitter.com/robinbogg/status/725588538981490688

If this is real, I don't see a UK media outlet doing the story. Hajo Seppelt could do it from Germany/ARD. But, it would need to be a part of a bigger story that we know probably exists.

 

[thehog]

Omertà Boardman protecting the ugly borish behavior.... do these guys belong to the Masonic lodge and talk strategy?

“It was a bit of a lynch mob,” said Boardman, a former Olympic gold medalist on the track, in an interview with British newspaper The Times.

“Sexism, bullying, selection… it was throwing mud at British Cycling and seeing what sticks. And one individual held responsible for everything.

“Where we got on or not – and we didn’t always get on – I thought it was a horrible trial by press for a week with just one side of the story. Shane’s behaviour was always passionate and right on the edge, Australian. It’s a really sad way to end a career of 20 years.”