Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[sniper]

Re: Re:

well well

Sir Robin Bogg
‏@robinbogg

@rogerc32 @manutdinsights You 2 (1) are going to feel pretty stupid when it's revealed Sutton recommended Varnish take an illegal epidural

https://twitter.com/robinbogg/status/725588538981490688

If this is real, I don't see a UK media outlet doing the story. Hajo Seppelt could do it from Germany/ARD. But, it would need to be a part of a bigger story that we know probably exists.

Any idea how illegal epidurals are when used for recovery? It seems to have been common practice at BC.

Anecdote from Emma Davies Jones in 2008:

I was in the GB squad for a long time, and that was great – it gave me so many opportunities and the facilities to reach the top. However, after I won my medal in the Commonwealth Games, I needed to get back to my rehabilitation, but GB wanted me to keep training for the upcoming World Championships in Saltzburg. So I went to the Worlds, having had an epidural just the day before leaving, but of course didn’t do very well. My squad place was rescinded rather suddenly after that. http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/interviews/emma-davies-jones-gets-pezd/#.V1QKXb4jWM8

Varnish 2013:

A back ache on a training camp in Australia in January developed into a more serious problem and left her fearing missing another season. The mundane chores of cleaning and shopping – let alone continuing her career – were put on hold.

And the seriousness of the problem was revealed with a simple sneeze.

“Don’t even talk to me about that,” she says, still wincing with the memory. “It had been coming on for months. When I was in Australia, I could feel it every day and I just wanted to get home.

“I had an injection and it was an epidural so it had to go into the discs. The needle is long and you go in and out of a scanner when it’s in your back.

“They said: ‘That should do it,’ but in my mind it was still there. It felt OK, but when you’re hurt your body just knows.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2013/12/14/jess-varnish-nothing-will-ever-be-as-bad-as-olympics/#LM7VK9ZlP4OxBzYL.99

 

[yaco]

I wouldn't worry about bullying. but can say Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton probably came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a renowned Australian Track Coach from the late 70's to late 80's - A powerful and influential figure.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

I wouldn't worry about bullying. but can say Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton probably came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a renowned Australian Track Coach from the late 70's to late 80's - A powerful and influential figure.

Bullying is a serious matter. There is no excuse for it. Charlie Walsh was a bully dressed up as powerful and influential? Sad.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

I would worry about bullying. Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a despised and criticised Australian Track Coach from the early 80's to mid 90's - a man who played favourites and psychotic mind games with his athletes.

Fixed it for you

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I would worry about bullying. Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a despised and criticised Australian Track Coach from the early 80's to mid 90's - a man who played favourites and psychotic mind games with his athletes.

Fixed it for you

Charlie Walsh a coach who got results. This is what team managements want. As for Gary Sutton he is nothing like his brother, actually the complete opposite. Yes it's true, nice guys have bully brothers !

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I would worry about bullying. Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a despised and criticised Australian Track Coach from the early 80's to mid 90's - a man who played favourites and psychotic mind games with his athletes.

Fixed it for you

Charlie Walsh a coach who got results. This is what team managements want. As for Gary Sutton he is nothing like his brother, actually the complete opposite. Yes it's true, nice guys have bully brothers !

Every AIS head track coach who followed got better results, without resorting to Walsh's tactics and behaviour.

If you want proof I strongly recommend that you read the articles about Walsh on CyclingTips, as well as Robbie McEwen's experience with him from the AIS. Then think about what wasn't said.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

I would worry about bullying. Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a despised and criticised Australian Track Coach from the early 80's to mid 90's - a man who played favourites and psychotic mind games with his athletes.

Fixed it for you

Charlie Walsh a coach who got results. This is what team managements want. As for Gary Sutton he is nothing like his brother, actually the complete opposite. Yes it's true, nice guys have bully brothers !

Every AIS head track coach who followed got better results, without resorting to Walsh's tactics and behaviour.

If you want proof I strongly recommend that you read the articles about Walsh on CyclingTips, as well as Robbie McEwen's experience with him from the AIS. Then think about what wasn't said.

As I recall before Walsh came along Australia was nowhere on the track scene. Walsh revolutionised Australian track cycling. What happened after Walsh is probably a large part because how he changed it. I am not surprised he upset some people but he got results.

 

[Cookster15]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't worry about bullying. but can say Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton probably came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a renowned Australian Track Coach from the late 70's to late 80's - A powerful and influential figure.

Bullying is a serious matter. There is no excuse for it. Charlie Walsh was a bully dressed up as powerful and influential? Sad.

I am not sure we can believe everything we read on the Clinic.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/doping-woes-frustrated-top-cycling-coach-charlie-walsh/story-fngr0c3m-1226685260174

 

[Freddythefrog]

Re: Re:

As I recall before Walsh came along Australia was nowhere on the track scene. Walsh revolutionised Australian track cycling. What happened after Walsh is probably a large part because how he changed it. I am not surprised he upset some people but he got results.

Hold on a minute - Heiko says "hi" and says you are forgetting someone. Famous East German international cyclist turned cycling coach thinks he had quite a bit to do with that turnaround as well.

Wiki -------Heiko Salzwedel-------------- After moving from his native East Germany to Australia in 1990, he set up the Australian Institute of Sport Road Cycling/MTB programme in Canberra. [1] World class riders, such as Robbie McEwen, Cadel Evans, Patrick Jonker, Henk Vogels, Matt White, Nick Gates and Kathy Watt, emerged from this programme.

There we go a "Walsh" and a "Heiko" - all the ingredients you ever need to make a winning team - it works every time, oh that and fluffing pillows and buying rounder wheels than your opponents have, the odd mattress helps as well.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

I wouldn't worry about bullying. but can say Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton probably came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a renowned Australian Track Coach from the late 70's to late 80's - A powerful and influential figure.

Bullying is a serious matter. There is no excuse for it. Charlie Walsh was a bully dressed up as powerful and influential? Sad.

I am not sure we can believe everything we read on the Clinic.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/sport/doping-woes-frustrated-top-cycling-coach-charlie-walsh/story-fngr0c3m-1226685260174

Would not believe much i read in the papers.

So Walsh came in and cleaned up Aussie cycling while coaching them to golds. That doesn't add up!

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

As I recall before Walsh came along Australia was nowhere on the track scene. Walsh revolutionised Australian track cycling. What happened after Walsh is probably a large part because how he changed it. I am not surprised he upset some people but he got results.

Hold on a minute - Heiko says "hi" and says you are forgetting someone. Famous East German international cyclist turned cycling coach thinks he had quite a bit to do with that turnaround as well.

Wiki -------Heiko Salzwedel-------------- After moving from his native East Germany to Australia in 1990, he set up the Australian Institute of Sport Road Cycling/MTB programme in Canberra. [1] World class riders, such as Robbie McEwen, Cadel Evans, Patrick Jonker, Henk Vogels, Matt White, Nick Gates and Kathy Watt, emerged from this programme.

There we go a "Walsh" and a "Heiko" - all the ingredients you ever need to make a winning team - it works every time, oh that and fluffing pillows and buying rounder wheels than your opponents have, the odd mattress helps as well.

Charlie Track Heiko Road.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

I would worry about bullying. Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a despised and criticised Australian Track Coach from the early 80's to mid 90's - a man who played favourites and psychotic mind games with his athletes.

Fixed it for you

Charlie Walsh a coach who got results. This is what team managements want. As for Gary Sutton he is nothing like his brother, actually the complete opposite. Yes it's true, nice guys have bully brothers !

Every AIS head track coach who followed got better results, without resorting to Walsh's tactics and behaviour.

If you want proof I strongly recommend that you read the articles about Walsh on CyclingTips, as well as Robbie McEwen's experience with him from the AIS. Then think about what wasn't said.

Like I said management don't care how it's done as long as the results are good. As for McEwen a known hothead himself he may have a little agenda of his own to pedal especially if he did not get along with Walsh. Walsh was an odd character no doubt but so are many competitors and officials.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I would worry about bullying. Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a despised and criticised Australian Track Coach from the early 80's to mid 90's - a man who played favourites and psychotic mind games with his athletes.

Fixed it for you

Charlie Walsh a coach who got results. This is what team managements want. As for Gary Sutton he is nothing like his brother, actually the complete opposite. Yes it's true, nice guys have bully brothers !

Every AIS head track coach who followed got better results, without resorting to Walsh's tactics and behaviour.

If you want proof I strongly recommend that you read the articles about Walsh on CyclingTips, as well as Robbie McEwen's experience with him from the AIS. Then think about what wasn't said.

Like I said management don't care how it's done as long as the results are good. As for McEwen a known hothead himself he may have a little agenda of his own to pedal especially if he did not get along with Walsh. Walsh was an odd character no doubt but so are many competitors and officials.

Even when it's done like this:

http://cyclingtips.com/2014/03/reflecting-on-a-legend-charlie-walsh/

http://cyclingtips.com/2014/03/the-human-cost-of-gold-medals/

It's no secret that Walsh was more than just a tough coach. He played heavy favourites and sabotaged riders, regardless of results. If he wanted them to fail he made certain of it, even if they were better than his pets.

Walsh and his methods can't be supported.

 

[Alex Simmons/RST]

Walsh was appalling and destroyed many promising cycling careers, and no doubt caused many others to head into the doping stream in order to survive.

As for the Suttons I suspect it's a case of chalk and cheese. Gary was nothing but hugely encouraging to me when I was attempting to make a mark in para cycling. The thought of "gimps" taking track time would have been ridiculous for Gary - he instead would ask if you wanted to join the session, get on the back of the derny he'd ride for the warmup, do drills if you wanted etc.

Plenty of other sad stories of athlete non-welfare. Dajka comes to mind as being hung out to dry.

 

[Freddythefrog]

Re: Re:

It's no secret that * * * * * * was more than just a tough coach. He played heavy favourites and sabotaged riders, regardless of results. If he wanted them to fail he made certain of it, even if they were better than his pets.

* * * * * * and his methods can't be supported.

I never thought it was a secret at all. But there are one hell of a lot of people paid good money from the public purse to look who just refused to open their eyes and look.

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

I would worry about bullying. Shane Sutton and Gary Sutton came under the tentacles of Charlie Walsh, a despised and criticised Australian Track Coach from the early 80's to mid 90's - a man who played favourites and psychotic mind games with his athletes.

Fixed it for you

Charlie Walsh a coach who got results. This is what team managements want. As for Gary Sutton he is nothing like his brother, actually the complete opposite. Yes it's true, nice guys have bully brothers !

Every AIS head track coach who followed got better results, without resorting to Walsh's tactics and behaviour.

If you want proof I strongly recommend that you read the articles about Walsh on CyclingTips, as well as Robbie McEwen's experience with him from the AIS. Then think about what wasn't said.

As I recall before Walsh came along Australia was nowhere on the track scene. Walsh revolutionised Australian track cycling. What happened after Walsh is probably a large part because how he changed it. I am not surprised he upset some people but he got results.

Walsh was very much influenced by the turbo charged American track cycling team's success at the 1984 LA Olympics - Walsh paid careful attention to America's rapid rise - Very much a divisive figure, though his influence is still felt in a number of sports in Australia till this day.

 

[gazr99]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/15/shane-sutton-expects-to-be-totally-exonerated-by-independent-review-british-cycling?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sutton expects/hopes to be totally exhonerated

 

[pastronef]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/18/becky-james-katy-marchant-shane-sutton-return-british-cycling?CMP=share_btn_tw

Becky James and Katy Marchant back Shane Sutton’s return at British Cycling

 

[elduggo]

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/aug/18/becky-james-katy-marchant-shane-sutton-return-british-cycling?CMP=share_btn_tw

Becky James and Katy Marchant back Shane Sutton’s return at British Cycling

yeah, this is horrible. They wouldn't dare say otherwise while they were still actively part of BC.

But saying nothing at all would have been better.

Unless they were forced into it, of course.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/15/shane-sutton-expects-to-be-totally-exonerated-by-independent-review-british-cycling?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sutton expects/hopes to be totally exhonerated

Of course he will be. Who's going to jeopardise results like this by actually carrying out a proper review? Move along people, there's nothing to see here...

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/15/shane-sutton-expects-to-be-totally-exonerated-by-independent-review-british-cycling?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sutton expects/hopes to be totally exhonerated

Of course he will be. Who's going to jeopardise results like this by actually carrying out a proper review? Move along people, there's nothing to see here...

So what you are saying is that chair of the panel, Annemarie Philips from British Rowing, GB hockey international Annie Panter and John Mehrzad, a barrister specialising in sports law, are all corrupt and in the pockets of British Cycling? I wonder what they would have to say about that?

I'd be happy to accept your other point: that Sutton is a brilliant coach who is key to British Cycling's success.

 

[The Carrot]

Re: Re:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/jul/15/shane-sutton-expects-to-be-totally-exonerated-by-independent-review-british-cycling?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sutton expects/hopes to be totally exhonerated

Of course he will be. Who's going to jeopardise results like this by actually carrying out a proper review? Move along people, there's nothing to see here...

So what you are saying is that chair of the panel, Annemarie Philips from British Rowing, GB hockey international Annie Panter and John Mehrzad, a barrister specialising in sports law, are all corrupt and in the pockets of British Cycling? I wonder what they would have to say about that?

I'd be happy to accept your other point: that Sutton is a brilliant coach who is key to British Cycling's success.

Even if we ignore the fact that this is the kids at UK sport effectively remarking their most successful piece of homework, the review is a PR exercise. It's got no powers to call witnesses or demand evidence of any kind. Nobody will have to swear on the bible or anything.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Even if we ignore the fact that this is the kids at UK sport effectively remarking their most successful piece of homework, the review is a PR exercise.

Got it. When it comes to allegations of 'sexism':

1) Forget the principle 'Innocent until proven guilty'.

2) Instead assume 'Guilty until proven innocent'

3) If the 'sexist' is later vindicated, declare 'Guilty even if proven innocent'.

Simple!

It's got no powers to call witnesses or demand evidence of any kind.

Has this prevented them from taking statements from those involved? No...

Nobody will have to swear on the bible or anything.

And if you first put your hand on a book of 2000 year old fairy stories this guarantees that you will tell the truth? :lol:

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Even if we ignore the fact that this is the kids at UK sport effectively remarking their most successful piece of homework, the review is a PR exercise.

Got it. When it comes to allegations of 'sexism':

1) Forget the principle 'Innocent until proven guilty'.

2) Instead assume 'Guilty until proven innocent'

3) If the 'sexist' is later vindicated, declare 'Guilty even if proven innocent'.

Simple!

It's got no powers to call witnesses or demand evidence of any kind.

Has this prevented them from taking statements from those involved? No...

Nobody will have to swear on the bible or anything.

And if you first put your hand on a book of 2000 year old fairy stories this guarantees that you will tell the truth? :lol:

Why did Sutton resign?

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

Even if we ignore the fact that this is the kids at UK sport effectively remarking their most successful piece of homework, the review is a PR exercise.

Got it. When it comes to allegations of 'sexism':

1) Forget the principle 'Innocent until proven guilty'.

2) Instead assume 'Guilty until proven innocent'

3) If the 'sexist' is later vindicated, declare 'Guilty even if proven innocent'.

Simple!

It's got no powers to call witnesses or demand evidence of any kind.

Has this prevented them from taking statements from those involved? No...

Nobody will have to swear on the bible or anything.

And if you first put your hand on a book of 2000 year old fairy stories this guarantees that you will tell the truth? :lol:

There is no principle of 'innocent to proven guilty'. It's the presumption of innocence, not actual innocence.