Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[Benotti69]

Re:

But no one is saying Varnish was kicked because of sexism. She was kicked because she isn't good enough and because she dared to speak up against Sir Shane and other British Cycling luminaries.

She's getting revenge now by revealing that Sutton said sexist things. Unfortunately for Sutton, others have now come forward to corroborate that BC has a sexism problem.

Apparently her times are faster than before. So it would appear it is not her performance that is lacking.

3 women riders all site problems with TeamGB. Are they all lying?

 

[Libertine Seguros]

BC's treatment of the likes of Nicole Cooke and Wendy Houvenaghel is something that many posters have criticized for many years. I'm one of them, but Freddythefrog has much better insights than me on that. Many statements about poor treatment have been made over many years without the recourse to accusations of sexism, so it's not like they've just plunged in there and played the offended card. A lot of the problem at BC is simply blatant favouritism, but seemingly manifesting itself in some ugly ways.

It does your case no good at all either to not acknowledge that there are many different interpretations and viewpoints within feminism as well, just like any philosophical, social or political ideology, and not all of these viewpoints define sexism, misogyny and all the other terms you've got into a state about the same way. And it certainly doesn't do your case any good either to selectively quote or selectively interpret the person you're attempting to respond to either, because it makes you seem, at best, a pretty disingenuous crusader.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Apparently her times are faster than before. So it would appear it is not her performance that is lacking.

Her fastest time was set four years ago.

In the last set of qualification trials she finished in 17th place.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

Apparently her times are faster than before. So it would appear it is not her performance that is lacking.

Her fastest time was set four years ago.

In the last set of qualification trials she finished in 17th place.

Team GB are not sharing her data.

I think Nicole Cooke said it best.


https://twitter.com/jrfowler61/status/724956085493354496

 

[saganftw]

Re: Re:

But no one is saying Varnish was kicked because of sexism. She was kicked because she isn't good enough and because she dared to speak up against Sir Shane and other British Cycling luminaries.

She's getting revenge now by revealing that Sutton said sexist things. Unfortunately for Sutton, others have now come forward to corroborate that BC has a sexism problem.

Apparently her times are faster than before. So it would appear it is not her performance that is lacking.

3 women riders all site problems with TeamGB. Are they all lying?

they are most likely already lying about doping,why wouldnt they lie about anything else as well? this is not moral olympus we are dealing with,those are profesional athletes - its like one step below politicians when it comes to saying truth

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Team GB are not sharing her data.

You don't need the data to see that she finished in 17th Place in the match sprints in London, or to see what her times have been in competition, or to see that she finished 5th in the World championships, so failing to qualify for the Olympics.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

No, that's not what I said at all. You're being rather like a fundamentalist yourself, and you should know full well you don't need to be a feminist (in the definition you use, which seems to only apply to some of the more radical strains thereof) to find something sexist, just as you don't need to be homosexual to recognise a homophobic slur as offensive, and trying to paint people calling something they see as sexist as being the construct of some wider conspiracy doesn't help anybody.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

you should know full well you don't need to be a feminist (in the definition you use, which seems to only apply to some of the more radical strains thereof) to find something sexist

What I am saying is that it tends to be the 'radicals' who define the debate, and so influence what everybody else thinks, as is their intention.

Seeing as you appear to have turned this thread completely away from discussion of Shane Sutton and on to your preferred moral/sociological topic of what people are and aren't allowed to interpret from the situation, that is a strikingly self-aware quote. Kudos.

 

[Maxiton]

The topic of this thread is Shane Sutton. Please stay on topic.

I've sent much of the off topic conversation to the Sidebar Thread, deleted some posts, edited other posts where necessary, and issued warnings as appropriate.

Once again, the topic is Shane Sutton. Sexism (or anything else, for that matter) can be discussed here but only insofar as it pertains specifically to Shane Sutton.

If you want to discuss feminism in its various aspects (whether to support or oppose), sexism at large (whether to support or oppose), or what have you, open a thread in the Cafe.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

British Cycling will form a independent review following allegations of sexism by cyclist Jess Varnish.
From http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36145949
(define independent pls)

 

[thehog]

Re:

British Cycling will form a independent review following allegations of sexism by cyclist Jess Varnish.
From http://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/36145949
(define independent pls)

The Brits love an independent review. They the independent review into the IAAF, the independent review into Boner and now into sexism with British Cycling.

Shane Sutton released a statement on the British Cycling website:

“Strewth! What are these sheilas on about? Bloody flammin galas! In my day the women were in the kitchen not on bikes, strewth mate, if they can't fit into the skinsuit then they don't bloody ride!”

 

[Beech Mtn]

Will there be any women running this independent review?

 

[SeriousSam]

Gender is unimportant what's important is that all important stakeholders in modern cycling are represented and that distance to BC is maintained. Accordingly, an independent panel should consist of investigative journalist David Walsh, UCI supremo Brian Cookson and someone from an independent road racing team, perhaps Sir David Brailsford of Team Sky?

 

[thehog]

Re:

Gender is unimportant what's important is that all important stakeholders in modern cycling are represented and that distance to BC is maintained. Accordingly, an independent panel should consist of investigative journalist David Walsh, UCI supremo Brian Cookson and someone from an independent road racing team, perhaps Sir David Brailsford of Team Sky?

LOL!!

 

[snccdcno]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3560333/British-Cycling-chief-coach-Shane-Sutton-faces-bullying-probe-allegedly-referring-para-cyclists-wobblies-gimps.html#i-7139e6ee42da3ee4

Edit: He has been suspended.

 

[veganrob]

Wow. Class act that Sutton. Equally abusive POS.

I have volunteered as a handler for the Para triathletes. These are some very brave individuals. Sutton is a coward.

 

[thehog]

Re:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-3560333/British-Cycling-chief-coach-Shane-Sutton-faces-bullying-probe-allegedly-referring-para-cyclists-wobblies-gimps.html#i-7139e6ee42da3ee4

Edit: He has been suspended.

Charming.

‘One day the Paralympic squad were on the track and I think somebody had wobbled,’ said the source. ‘They’d gone a bit close and one of the male (able-bodied) sprinters had got a bit tetchy and started having a go at Shane and he then in turn came flying into the office saying, “Get those f****** gimps off the track”.

‘And it’s like, you can’t say that. It’s not right but that’s how he works. He’d come out with stuff that was just outrageous. In many ways he had a heart of gold but obviously that’s unacceptable.’

Another source, who worked closely with Sutton, says he regularly referred to the para-cyclists as wobblies.

‘They were referred to as wobblies. It was an in-joke used to describe para-cyclists but it’s not politically correct, clearly. I think that they did know about it.’

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

BC's treatment of the likes of Nicole Cooke and Wendy Houvenaghel is something that many posters have criticized for many years. I'm one of them, but Freddythefrog has much better insights than me on that. Many statements about poor treatment have been made over many years without the recourse to accusations of sexism, so it's not like they've just plunged in there and played the offended card. A lot of the problem at BC is simply blatant favouritism, but seemingly manifesting itself in some ugly ways.

It does your case no good at all either to not acknowledge that there are many different interpretations and viewpoints within feminism as well, just like any philosophical, social or political ideology, and not all of these viewpoints define sexism, misogyny and all the other terms you've got into a state about the same way. And it certainly doesn't do your case any good either to selectively quote or selectively interpret the person you're attempting to respond to either, because it makes you seem, at best, a pretty disingenuous crusader.

Don't forget about the years that Emma Pooley spent basically disowned by BC as well.

 

[thehog]

In any other walk of life Sutton would be rubbing shoulders with the lower ebbs of society. Whilst he rules from the old school methods of coaching he doesn't know how to "manage" people. He is a neanderthal who has no life experience, training or education to call upon to act appropriately. The bar is low at British Cycling, you can see it all crumbling now like it did under Charlie Walsh in Australia. Back then it was "Charlie Angles"; then doping the stories started to leak out. When Government money is involved it's much harder to hide. I sense Rio will be a turning point for the worse.... the party is over for British Cycling.

 

[Huapango]

Mr. Sutton doesn't sound much different than certain person running for president of the U.S..

 

[mewmewmew13]

Wow. Class act that Sutton. Equally abusive POS.

I have volunteered as a handler for the Para triathletes. These are some very brave individuals. Sutton is a coward.

+1

 

[jens_attacks]

Sayinh those things to the paralympics champions made me angry. What a scum. Good riddance

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

Shane Sutton released a statement on the British Cycling website:

“Strewth! What are these sheilas on about? Bloody flammin galas! In my day the women were in the kitchen not on bikes, strewth mate, if they can't fit into the skinsuit then they don't bloody ride!”

I guess it hardly matters now that it looks as though Sutton is history, but Sutton never suggested that Varnish was too big 'to fit into a skinsuit'. Her own interpretation of what he said was that he was implying that:

"the stronger woman has to go in "man one" position because I'm quite glute dominant, shall we say."

Anyhow, although the PC thoughtpolice are often the most intolerant, illiberal, authoritarian, hate-filled bunch you are ever likely to come across, I think it is fair to say that Sutton is not just another Tim Hunt.

Given the reports about his comments concerning disabled riders I think that his reputation for failing to be sufficiently 'politically correct' is pretty much proved, with his 'sexism' (defined in the broadest possible manner) just being another dimension of his failure to be 'PC'. However, in this day and age and given his senior role in British Cycling, his approach clearly makes him a bit of a liability, even if he "has a heart of gold" and (according to Wiggins) "when he's on your side he's 100 per cent behind you and he will give you the world. He's the kind of guy you want in the trenches with you".

I guess that never again will we hear descriptions such as 'He couldn't pull the foreskin off a rice pudding' and in the future all we will hear is things like 'Ze's power was insufficient to win the Tour at that time'.

 

[Robert21]

I have just re-read this article:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sutton-says-british-sprinters-need-to-take-responsibility-for-failures/

It strikes me that if Varnish and the others had performed a fraction better, qualified for Rio and whatnot, non of this barrage of accusations and recriminations would have ever come about. Rather, the rider's involved would have continued to just shrug their shoulders and see Sutton's approach as just been a necessary pain in the backside, much like that final set of intervals that, whilst one might not like them, ultimately deliver the results you want. Consequently, perhaps Sutton's biggest failing here is that it seems his methods have stopped delivering the results, and the resultant disappointments and anger have pretty much caused the team to implode.

Oh well, only a few months to Rio!

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re:

I have just re-read this article:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/sutton-says-british-sprinters-need-to-take-responsibility-for-failures/

It strikes me that if Varnish and the others had performed a fraction better, qualified for Rio and whatnot, non of this barrage of accusations and recriminations would have ever come about. Rather, the rider's involved would have continued to just shrug their shoulders and see Sutton's approach as just been a necessary pain in the backside, much like that final set of intervals that, whilst one might not like them, ultimately deliver the results you want. Consequently, perhaps Sutton's biggest failing here is that it seems his methods have stopped delivering the results, and the resultant disappointments and anger have pretty much caused the team to implode.

Oh well, only a few months to Rio!

If Varnish had qualified for Rio then she would have continued to suffer the bullying in silence in order to not jeopardise her dream of going to the Olympics. I'm not sure why you consider this to be a good thing.