Shane Sutton - Team Sky coach

[yaco]

Re: Re:

Anyway nothing is more certain that Sutton will be offered another high level job - For all his foibles, Sutton gets results - And that's what matters.

The irony is that without him they would not be as successful as they have been and when they were completely dominating a few years ago there was total silence. He was okay when everyone was winning but when team selections upset people it became an issue. He has been there for years. Not known for his subtlety it is easy to believe some of the things said about him but the true story will probably never be told not while people are still involved in the sport anyway. Expect future books to mention the episode of course.

Spot on with your post - Some of the Aussie posters in this thread have given a snapshot of Australia cycling from the beginning of the Charlie Walsh regime in the 1980's, and of course Sutton was part of this regime - Usually cycling coaches, especially track coaches are known for their tough and uncompromising methods.

Umm Sutton was so "liked" in Australia, that when he retired from racing he had to get his first major coaching gig in Wales. Take as long as you need with that.

You are having a bad run - My post never mentions Sutton being offered a job in Australia - It states he will find another job in cycling, probably in a coaching capacity.

 

[orbeas]

movingtarget wrote:
...
Obviously you have to start somewhere as an inexperienced coach. Being liked is meaningless as far as results go.

Perhaps you should ask why he suddenly left Welsh Cycling !!!!

and why he left Australia ??

 

[yaco]

Re: Re:

...
Obviously you have to start somewhere as an inexperienced coach. Being liked is meaningless as far as results go.

Sure I agree that being nice isn't necessarily a recipe for success in professional coaching.
But you really don't need to be a BC insider to know that Varnish' comments weren't even scratching the surface. Rather it's more likely to be the thin tip of nasty friggin iceberg.
It just happened to be her comments that blew a hole in Sutton's ship. But I'd reckon that's merely a historical coincidence. Varnish wasn't the first to accuse Sutton of corrupt behavior - just check the first few pages of this thread - and in all likelihood she won't be the last.

If the woman who accused Sutton had actually made the team she wouldn't have said anything because she had nothing to gain by it.

Floyd wouldn't have said anything either if...etc.
I don't see your point here.

Floyd our bastion of humility - Must be hoping like hell that the US Government wins their civil case against Lance, so he can gets his hands on the 30% under the USA whistle-blowers law.

 

[yaco]

Re:

movingtarget wrote:
...
Obviously you have to start somewhere as an inexperienced coach. Being liked is meaningless as far as results go.

Perhaps you should ask why he suddenly left Welsh Cycling !!!!

and why he left Australia ??

I am unsure why this is being revisited - Some well researched and well connected posters have given details about Sutton's past behaviour - Join the dots together and its obvious - But he will probably get another job.

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Moving target, the woman has a name and that name is Jess Varnish, do her the courtesy of actually naming her, please

As for Mr Sutton, it really is germane to ask why he was airlifted out of Welsh Cycling for a job at BC at very short notice

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Moving target, the woman has a name and that name is Jess Varnish, do her the courtesy of actually naming her, please

As for Mr Sutton, it really is germane to ask why he was airlifted out of Welsh Cycling for a job at BC at very short notice

Apologies, I couldn't remember Jess Varnish's name and was too lazy to look it up. Like Shane Sutton I have my faults, I think sloth is one of the seven deadly sins.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Re: Re:

well well

Sir Robin Bogg
‏@robinbogg

@rogerc32 @manutdinsights You 2 (1) are going to feel pretty stupid when it's revealed Sutton recommended Varnish take an illegal epidural

https://twitter.com/robinbogg/status/725588538981490688

If this is real, I don't see a UK media outlet doing the story. Hajo Seppelt could do it from Germany/ARD. But, it would need to be a part of a bigger story that we know probably exists.

Any idea how illegal epidurals are when used for recovery? It seems to have been common practice at BC.

Anecdote from Emma Davies Jones in 2008:

I was in the GB squad for a long time, and that was great – it gave me so many opportunities and the facilities to reach the top. However, after I won my medal in the Commonwealth Games, I needed to get back to my rehabilitation, but GB wanted me to keep training for the upcoming World Championships in Saltzburg. So I went to the Worlds, having had an epidural just the day before leaving, but of course didn’t do very well. My squad place was rescinded rather suddenly after that. http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/interviews/emma-davies-jones-gets-pezd/#.V1QKXb4jWM8

Varnish 2013:

A back ache on a training camp in Australia in January developed into a more serious problem and left her fearing missing another season. The mundane chores of cleaning and shopping – let alone continuing her career – were put on hold.

And the seriousness of the problem was revealed with a simple sneeze.

“Don’t even talk to me about that,” she says, still wincing with the memory. “It had been coming on for months. When I was in Australia, I could feel it every day and I just wanted to get home.

“I had an injection and it was an epidural so it had to go into the discs. The needle is long and you go in and out of a scanner when it’s in your back.

“They said: ‘That should do it,’ but in my mind it was still there. It felt OK, but when you’re hurt your body just knows.

http://www.expressandstar.com/sport/2013/12/14/jess-varnish-nothing-will-ever-be-as-bad-as-olympics/#LM7VK9ZlP4OxBzYL.99

That's an impressive find. An epidural is essentially a spinal block. A VERY powerful anesthesia that is injected into the spine's nerve bundle between vertebra. It is not without risk. How much risk depends on your outlook. http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/Epidural-anaesthesia/Pages/Introduction.aspx No more pain of any kind!

There's no way a cyclist should be getting one just to stay in a program. But, that's crazy me.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Anyway nothing is more certain that Sutton will be offered another high level job - For all his foibles, Sutton gets results - And that's what matters.

The irony is that without him they would not be as successful as they have been and when they were completely dominating a few years ago there was total silence. He was okay when everyone was winning but when team selections upset people it became an issue. He has been there for years. Not known for his subtlety it is easy to believe some of the things said about him but the true story will probably never be told not while people are still involved in the sport anyway. Expect future books to mention the episode of course.

Spot on with your post - Some of the Aussie posters in this thread have given a snapshot of Australia cycling from the beginning of the Charlie Walsh regime in the 1980's, and of course Sutton was part of this regime - Usually cycling coaches, especially track coaches are known for their tough and uncompromising methods.

Umm Sutton was so "liked" in Australia, that when he retired from racing he had to get his first major coaching gig in Wales. Take as long as you need with that.

You are having a bad run - My post never mentions Sutton being offered a job in Australia - It states he will find another job in cycling, probably in a coaching capacity.

Why am I having a bad run? There's uncompromising and then there's uniting the squad against you. They don't have to mean the same thing.

How can you not accept that Sutton has a genuine issue with dealing with his riders? The man is genuinely despised, he has very little respect at all.

 

[movingtarget]

Re: Re:

How can you not accept that Sutton has a genuine issue with dealing with his riders? The man is genuinely despised, he has very little respect at all.[/quote]

If that's the case it seems that the people that keep employing him think the results are worth the trouble. Sport is riddled with such people. Sometimes they get sacked and never return and sometimes they keep getting jobs. Doping doctors and coaches make comebacks sometimes but harassment of any type is usually a career killer or at least provides a barrier to the best jobs.

 

[thehog]

Re: Re:

How can you not accept that Sutton has a genuine issue with dealing with his riders? The man is genuinely despised, he has very little respect at all.

If that's the case it seems that the people that keep employing him think the results are worth the trouble. Sport is riddled with such people. Sometimes they get sacked and never return and sometimes they keep getting jobs. Doping doctors and coaches make comebacks sometimes but harassment of any type is usually a career killer or at least provides a barrier to the best jobs.

The guy has only really ever been hired by Brailsford. Prior to that he was living alone above a bike shop eating breakfast cereal for dinner. Truth be told, no one really wants Sutton bar Wiggins and Sir Dave.

 

[orbeas]

Re:

Moving target, the woman has a name and that name is Jess Varnish, do her the courtesy of actually naming her, please

As for Mr Sutton, it really is germane to ask why he was airlifted out of Welsh Cycling for a job at BC at very short notice

Dont think he left Welsh cycling suddenly to join BC ???

 

[yaco]

Short-listed for a role in the Australian Track Cycling Team.

 

[TourOfSardinia]

Re:

Short-listed for a role in the Australian Track Cycling Team.

mens
or womens?

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Orbeas, I have it on very good authority that he did, and why - not a pretty story

 

[movingtarget]

Re:

Short-listed for a role in the Australian Track Cycling Team.

I think his brother Garry is still involved with the Australia team in some capacity I think as a technical coach or advisor so whether that has any influence one way or the other over the final selection, I don't know. I can honestly say that I have never heard anyone say anything bad about Garry who has little in common with his brother at least from a personality point of view. i think Garry coached the women's track team years ago as well. I used to watch them race on the track and in criteriums and Shane was the brash talkative type while Garry was the quiet unassuming one.

 

[Robert21]

So, the reality is that, after all, the inquiry pretty much vindicated Sutton. Problem is, as in the case of the Nobel Prize winner Tim Hunt, whose career was destroyed by the authoritarian thought police and twitter mob for making a throw-away joke at a conference, the mob will probably continue to see him as a 'unperson', given that allegations of 'sexism' are generally treated with the same 'guilty, even if proven innocent' gravity as an admission that one does not love big brother.

The claim that he said Varnish 'had a fat arse' wasn't included in the list of allegations - not surprising really given that this claim was made up by the Daily Mail, a particularly right-wing and anti-cyclist British newspaper.

...only one of nine claims of discriminatory language was upheld

In October, British Cycling offered "its sincere regret that this happened" in a statement saying it had upheld her allegations that Sutton had used "inappropriate and discriminatory language".

What it did not say that the only allegation it upheld was that Sutton used the word "bitches", and did not uphold him referring to women as Sheilas, swearing, using the 'c-word', telling her to "get on with having a baby", branding women as difficult, not distributing equipment equally between men and women and other allegations of discrimination.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/varnish-to-appeal-british-cycling-internal-inquiry-on-sutton/

 

[Nick C.]

So on all the meaningful issues they did not uphold the charges. Using the word "bitches" is even a charge? This whole thing seems so strange. One unupheld charge was the word "Sheilas". Seriously???? Some of this is almost a parody of discrimination and undermines the actual issues by providing cannon fodder for mockery and "enough with the PC police". This seems so stupid, no wonder she is appealing

 

[thehog]

Re:

So on all the meaningful issues they did not uphold the charges. Using the word "bitches" is even a charge? This whole thing seems so strange. One unupheld charge was the word "Sheilas". Seriously???? Some of this is almost a parody of discrimination and undermines the actual issues by providing cannon fodder for mockery and "enough with the PC police". This seems so stupid, no wonder she is appealing

It's cool stuff, British Cycling investigate Sutton, stories about Wiggins & Jiffy bags start to leak, British Cycling apologise to Varnish to then leak the report on Sutton just prior to the Parliamentary hearings that most points were not upheld. Then BC issue a "no comment".

Comedy it is! :lol:

 

[sniper]

Re: Re:

So on all the meaningful issues they did not uphold the charges. Using the word "bitches" is even a charge? This whole thing seems so strange. One unupheld charge was the word "Sheilas". Seriously???? Some of this is almost a parody of discrimination and undermines the actual issues by providing cannon fodder for mockery and "enough with the PC police". This seems so stupid, no wonder she is appealing

It's cool stuff, British Cycling investigate Sutton, stories about Wiggins & Jiffy bags start to leak, British Cycling apologise to Varnish to then leak the report on Sutton just prior to the Parliamentary hearings that most points were not upheld. Then BC issue a "no comment".

Comedy it is! :lol:

Bang on.

As I said earlier, nobody close to the game would seriously claim BC's decision to not reinstate Sutton was a result of a thorough and fair review. It wasn't.
All odds were on Shane getting reinstated. The committee was organized to reinstate Shane.
Until the very last day before the announcement insiders were sure he'd get reinstated.
Something happened on that very last day. As if somebody put pressure on the right people, who were then forced to change their minds last minute.

 

[Benotti69]

Foxes investigate the hen house........and some people are surprised at the result.

 

[jahn]

The motive fits the crime. As in getting cut and childishly lashing out which unfortunately society gives permission to do so.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

So on all the meaningful issues they did not uphold the charges. Using the word "bitches" is even a charge? This whole thing seems so strange. One unupheld charge was the word "Sheilas". Seriously???? Some of this is almost a parody of discrimination and undermines the actual issues by providing cannon fodder for mockery and "enough with the PC police". This seems so stupid, no wonder she is appealing

Seems to be the plan - cheapen the appearance of the allegations to put the focus back on Varnish

 

[Benotti69]

Cycling history repeating itself and the main benefactors/enablers will all get to keep their enrichments from it all.................while some small fish gets fried.

 

[yaco]

Apparently, Varnish wants to appeal the committee's decision to exonerate Sutton on eight charges of misconduct - I am unsure where and how Varnish can appeal - I'd be surprised if the findings are overturned at another inquiry.

 

[thehog]

Re:

Apparently, Varnish wants to appeal the committee's decision to exonerate Sutton on eight charges of misconduct - I am unsure where and how Varnish can appeal - I'd be surprised if the findings are overturned at another inquiry.

To be honest, British Cycling leaking the document is by far a worst case of sexism than Sutton (not that you measure it in levels). If she had the resources she should take civil action against them for defamation.