Should Sky have waited when Valverde fell?

[Jaunty Monty]

... which looks even worse.

Eh? They tried to use the crosswinds to put their rivals under pressure. Just because one of those rivals crashed they should stop trying to drop others? Are you only allowed to distance one rival from an attack?

 

[Dutchsmurf]

One thing for sure, according to Sky we can safely get rid of the race radios. They aren't using them anyway after all.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Maybe I am missing something but people have suggested that SKY upping the pace caused Nikki Sorensen to crash.

Thats a bit of a stretch isnt it? On that logic you could blame every crash on a team going on the front and sticking the hammer down.

Valverde is a cry baby and his team think nothing of pushing it on when somebody else crashes.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/ex-pros-back-sky-in-valverde-crash-row

A survey of former professionals by the Spanish newspaper AS has found that an overwhelming majority say Sky did not behave incorrectly when Alejandro Valverde fell and then the British team continued to drive the echelon they had just started to form seconds before the crash happened on stage 4 of the Vuelta a España.

Sky did not behave incorrectly, except by their own standards they showed at Paris-Nice, when Movistar did a similar thing to Levi Leipheimer. Wiggins and co had a lot of negative things to say about Movistar that day (despite that they actually profited from it). Yesterday they simply showed that they are hypocrites.

Not waiting isn't the problem. I wouldn't have minded at all if they hadn't run their mouths off about etiquette to Movistar earlier in the season. You'll notice that when Quick Step got their own back on Valverde in Catalunya, El Don took it in his stride. This time, it's galling because it's the same team that gave him stick for it. And Leipheimer was sitting in 2nd in a one week race, not leading a Grand Tour.

did valverde stop when cadel evans punctured in the vuelta 2010 and the aussie lost incredible amount of time because of neutral assistence not helping him and tv motorcycles being obstacle?

el imbatido won the vuelta by 1min 32 sec, exactly the time cadel lost.

No, he didn't. Because he was suspended in the 2010 Vuelta (and Cadel wasn't there as BMC weren't invited). I presume you mean 2009.

And in that instance you are very wrong. Evans wasn't stationary for anything like 1'32. In fact, after setting back on the bike he very swiftly rejoined the Samuel Sánchez group (Samu had already been distanced, which was the reason nobody waited for Evans - why let a contender come back for free?). Valverde finished at 1'16" back from the winner that day (Moncoutié) - Evans at 2'24". Which my rudimentary mathematics tells me is 1'08", + 8 seconds bonus = 1'16". Which is less than Evans' overall deficit, so actually Evans didn't lose the Vuelta that day.

Also, Samu was in the Evans group after the puncture, and Samu finished at 1'37, just 21 seconds behind Valverde - Evans chased too hard in his desperation and blew himself up (which had always been a problem for him until 2011), whereas Samu didn't panic and dosed his efforts.

Eh? They tried to use the crosswinds to put their rivals under pressure. Just because one of those rivals crashed they should stop trying to drop others? Are you only allowed to distance one rival from an attack?

Movistar tried to use the descent to put their rivals under pressure in Paris-Nice. Just because one of those rivals crashed they should stop trying to drop others? Are you only allowed to distance one rival from an attack?

Sky seemed to think so. But now they don't.

That's all that I take issue with.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I am sure Valverde is very grateful for your support

 

[Aguirre]

Looking forward to it !

i agree with this line. i think it was a bad move for sky, maybe a mistake of young DS. they can regret in the near future. no mercy for sky now.

and every car has radio and tv to knoe every single detail of the race, sounds hypocrit riders didn't know

maybe things should be seen from a psychoanalitical way concerning flecha... memories of voeckler...

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I am sure Valverde is very grateful for your support

And I'm sure Sky are grateful for yours. Isn't life great when you can trust one another's viewpoints not to turn out to be totally designed around what suits one best at a given time?

I hope Sky give Pierre Rolland a bit more leeway about his attacking into Foix. After all, his radio wasn't working, he said.

 

[Geraint Too Fast]

Sky did not behave incorrectly, except by their own standards they showed at Paris-Nice, when Movistar did a similar thing to Levi Leipheimer. Wiggins and co had a lot of negative things to say about Movistar that day (despite that they actually profited from it). Yesterday they simply showed that they are hypocrites.

Not waiting isn't the problem. I wouldn't have minded at all if they hadn't run their mouths off about etiquette to Movistar earlier in the season. You'll notice that when Quick Step got their own back on Valverde in Catalunya, El Don took it in his stride. This time, it's galling because it's the same team that gave him stick for it. And Leipheimer was sitting in 2nd in a one week race, not leading a Grand Tour.

No, he didn't. Because he was suspended in the 2010 Vuelta (and Cadel wasn't there as BMC weren't invited). I presume you mean 2009.

And in that instance you are very wrong. Evans wasn't stationary for anything like 1'32. In fact, after setting back on the bike he very swiftly rejoined the Samuel Sánchez group (Samu had already been distanced, which was the reason nobody waited for Evans - why let a contender come back for free?). Valverde finished at 1'16" back from the winner that day (Moncoutié) - Evans at 2'24". Which my rudimentary mathematics tells me is 1'08", + 8 seconds bonus = 1'16". Which is less than Evans' overall deficit, so actually Evans didn't lose the Vuelta that day.

Also, Samu was in the Evans group after the puncture, and Samu finished at 1'37, just 21 seconds behind Valverde - Evans chased too hard in his desperation and blew himself up (which had always been a problem for him until 2011), whereas Samu didn't panic and dosed his efforts.

Movistar tried to use the descent to put their rivals under pressure in Paris-Nice. Just because one of those rivals crashed they should stop trying to drop others? Are you only allowed to distance one rival from an attack?

Sky seemed to think so. But now they don't.

That's all that I take issue with.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was only Wiggins and Thomas who complained about Movistar's attack at Paris-Nice. Those two aren't even riding the Vuelta, so how are Sky hypocrites?

 

[pastronef]

Gerard Vroomen's view on the "waiting"

(the funniest part if when he writes "we don't like Levi either"! )


http://gerard.cc/2012/08/22/grow-some-balls/

 

[User Guide]

SKY SKY SKY SKY......... Haters gonna hate....
Also when they had been talking too others they werent exactly drilling it Valverde would of got back on with ease well before the climb.
BMC then absolutly killed it gap went from 20s to 55s in no time,wheres the hate for them?
Anyhow more hate please,its fuel for the dark train of death

 

[Oldskoolkool]

Valverde

I think I must have missed the part where Valverde explained that taking advantage of a rivals crash is unfair, but taking drugs to deny your opponents wins and prizes is fully fair and acceptable.
He's an unrepentant drug cheat and in my book this means he's not entitled to any ideas of fair play and sportsmanship.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

SKY SKY SKY SKY......... Haters gonna hate....
Also when they had been talking too others they werent exactly drilling it Valverde would of got back on with ease well before the climb.
BMC then absolutly killed it gap went from 20s to 55s in no time,wheres the hate for them?
Anyhow more hate please,its fuel for the dark train of death

Hey, tough girl, what did Valverde do?

U mean u just got a big mouth and no answers? We already knew.

fanboy

 

[cineteq]

In other words, you're using this thread to vent your hate against Valverde? FYI he did his time. Riders are humans too, and they have families.

 

[sartoris]

SKY SKY SKY SKY......... Haters gonna hate....
Also when they had been talking too others they werent exactly drilling it Valverde would of got back on with ease well before the climb.
BMC then absolutly killed it gap went from 20s to 55s in no time,wheres the hate for them?
Anyhow more hate please,its fuel for the dark train of death

The minimum age for this forum is 18, innit?

 

[User Guide]

Hey, tough girl, what did Valverde do?

U mean u just got a big mouth and no answers? We already knew.

fanboy

LOL name calling, not like you mate is it now?
Valverde/Movistar have plenty of form,read the thread for one.

Edit.... When you have something that isnt name calling,zenophopic,anti-cycling or barely hidden clinic trolling,thats when you will get something sensible in return.

 

[User Guide]

The minimum age for this forum is 18, innit?

I see what you did there well done !!!!

 

[bassplayer88]

just read the first 16 posts in this thread and man I am bored. im sick of reading the same tired husks of opinions, from the same people. can anyone direct me to a more sophisticated english language cycling forum?

 

[bassplayer88]

just read the first 16 posts in this thread and man I am bored. im sick of reading the same tired husks of opinions, from the same people. can anyone direct me to a more sophisticated english language cycling forum?

btw i am not in favour of team sky per say, very interested by what drama tuesdays racing brought, but you know, im just saying...

 

[ElChingon]

just read the first 16 posts in this thread and man I am bored. im sick of reading the same tired husks of opinions, from the same people. can anyone direct me to a more sophisticated english language cycling forum?

I will request to the mods to move your post up to the first 16 then.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

From memory, they attacked Millar when he punctured and got clear. Two of Millar's Peugeot team mates then made an effort to get up to Millar to help him, just as they were getting close a level crossing barrier conveniently came down to stop them and delay them by 2 or 3 minutes... but no train actually passed through whilst the barrier was shut The motorcyle carrying the time checks then conveniently went missing and the Spaniards basically disrupted the chasing group of Millar with (Rodriguez from memory) giving up his 2nd place by refusing to push on with Millar to ensure a Spaniard won.

Don't get me wrong, I've no quibble with Spaniards working together to ensure Millar didn't win but Millar was well & truly stitched up that day.

Seems like only yesterday

Thanks. I don't suppose you have a link for any of this. Not that I don't believe you but because that Tour is such a fascinating story. I really need to find time to read 'In Search of Robert Millar'. One of the guys that really got me into cycling. Anyway, I digress...

 

[Susan Westemeyer]

Everybody chill.

No more doping references.

No more insults.

There is room in this forum for every viewpoint. Respect that. Address the post and not the poster.

And if the thread doesn't interest you, then just DON'T READ IT. It really is that easy! What is the point of insulting everyone who does want to read it?

Further violations will involve suspensions.

Susan

 

[Cimber]

Everybody chill.

No more doping references.

No more insults.

There is room in this forum for every viewpoint. Respect that. Address the post and not the poster.

And if the thread doesn't interest you, then just DON'T READ IT. It really is that easy! What is the point of insulting everyone who does want to read it?

Further violations will involve suspensions.

Susan

Have a cup of coffee. That usually improves my morning mood But I agree

 

[Mellow Velo]

Sky did not behave incorrectly, except by their own standards they showed at Paris-Nice, when Movistar did a similar thing to Levi Leipheimer. Wiggins and co had a lot of negative things to say about Movistar that day (despite that they actually profited from it). Yesterday they simply showed that they are hypocrites.

Movistar tried to use the descent to put their rivals under pressure in Paris-Nice. Just because one of those rivals crashed they should stop trying to drop others? Are you only allowed to distance one rival from an attack?

Sky seemed to think so. But now they don't.

That's all that I take issue with.

I totally agree with you on this LS.
Felt at the time there was nothing wrong with Moviestar taking the offensive on that descent and that Sky should have kept their noses out of it, post race.
That was a racing incident, just as this was.

Had they kept their Twitter thoughts to themselves, they would not appear hypocritical, as they do now.

I wonder if the two teams are developing a bit of a "history", now.
On the Bolougne stage of the Tour, we had a couple of Moviestar
riders attack, right after a pile up that saw Kanstantsin Siutsou prostrate and broken on the road.............

 

[red_flanders]

Eh? They tried to use the crosswinds to put their rivals under pressure. Just because one of those rivals crashed they should stop trying to drop others? Are you only allowed to distance one rival from an attack?

This. Way too early in the race to wait for anyone.

 

[thehog]

“Sky had set up the echelon action well, and the attack had been started, when Valverde crashed. But I would have expected that after a few kilometers the command to wait would come across on the radio,” Ullrich wrote.

Ullrich doubted that it was a “pointed attack” against Valverde and his Movistar team, “But I don't think it had anything to do with antipathy. Valverde is actually well-liked in the field, and it was only a few teams which rode. Most of them were actually fair.”

"It is hard to judge the matter when one was not present," he said. “Personally, I would have slowed, since it was a situation which wouldn't really have helped me –I want to measure myself against my opponents and not profit from their bad luck.”

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

"It is hard to judge the matter when one was not present," he said. “Personally, I would have slowed, since it was a situation which wouldn't really have helped me –I want to measure myself against my opponents and not profit from their bad luck.”

At least he has form in practicing what he preaches.