Anyone here in the US watching "LA: the look back" on VS? With hindsight, it is amazing how many of the stage podiums are full of convicted dopers. I am trying to bury my head as the racing is so much more exciting with the rose coloured glasses on.
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Thoughtforfood said:What I also find funny are Lefevre's comments about doping in the wake of things like Landis' testosterone positive. I thought at the time how incredibly hypocritical it was for anyone who was a DS for Museew to show such moral outrage. He is also a venereal disease to cycling. Syphilis actually because his role in the whole thing infects the entire system.
I would like to see him go down in flames personally.
Thoughtforfood said:I don't know about Tafi, but I agree that he was beautiful on a bike. My real point was similar to the one I would be making if I posted a picture of the Gewiss 1-2-3 (race and year are eluding me today). Nice team ride, but come one? In a race THAT freaking hard?
craig1985 said:I think we should hold an amnesty and have a cut-off date. If you doped and you weren't caught or you confess, nothing happens, but if you test positive from now on, you will never ever race a bike professionally not in this life time or the next. Only if you name names or blow the whistle should you be allowed to race again.
Frigo's Napsack said:He also through VDB under the bus saying that he and Museauw even searched VDB's room looking for drugs. Hypocrite. He is on the top of my list. Just look at the timeline of his leaving Mapei. Squizni announces that the team is stopping its doping. LeFevre announces he is retiring at the end of the year. Few weeks later he announces that he is leaving early because he wants out of cycling. Few weeks later he forms Domo. Guy is a jerk.
Long live VDB. Cool.
anubisza said:I agree, but this is the part that really annoys me:
"David Howman, WADA's director general, told the television program Frontal-21 that Sinkewitz's statement was forwarded to the Union Cycliste International (UCI) last week and that he had no explanation for the delay."
What the hell are WADA playing at days before the sports biggest event of the year?
You got that right. Why punish the riders only?Alpe d'Huez said:Well, believe me people, riders on this level rarely dope alone.
biker77 said:So, if we are all of the opinion that doping is a systematic problem in endurance sports, what do we do? Do we stop watching? I cant`t. Top-level cycling is what I love to watch. It is an escape from the daily grind and my 20mph avg speed on a good day.
It is also why I am so disappointed at the the ongoing doping. I don`t want to feel like an idiot for believing in something. However, I do not want to become so cycnical that I can`t believe in anything.
If it can be proven that an athlete doped intentionally then lifetime bans should be the only answer.
anubisza said:I agree, but this is the part that really annoys me:
"David Howman, WADA's director general, told the television program Frontal-21 that Sinkewitz's statement was forwarded to the Union Cycliste International (UCI) last week and that he had no explanation for the delay."
What the hell are WADA playing at days before the sports biggest event of the year?
Indurain said:I think the UCI should run a test. Allow open doping for one year with no penalties. But for safety, no hemoacrit levels over 50%. And see how it goes.
I know one thing for certain, the average speeds, etc will remain identical. We may just see some newer nobodies raise up the ladder a little.
This is a nice summary.pmcg76 said:Furlan was the third guy in that Gewiss 1-2-3 in 94.
Sorry Roger, I would like to believe Tafi was clean but he was just another lowly rider until he joined Mapei. Bit of trivia for ya, he actually raced in the US in the long since gone Tour of Americas down in Florida, Puerto Rico in 1990. He was on the Sella Italia team and won a stage I think. Then he was at Carrera during the era when they were working with Conconi but I dont think his name came up in that investigation.
Tafi argued with Pantani & Cipollini about the introducion of CONI healtht tests at the Giro in 99 and he was ostracised, I remember pictures of him crying so maybe he was clean or had a conscience at least.
I also remember Giorgio Squinzi, big boss of Mapei admitting in 1999 that his team Mapei had not always played by the rules but he wanted to change things within his team. Nardello, plonker was on Mapei as well and Squinzi quit because he said he had been beating by the plague of doping so people will have to draw their own conclusions on Mapei.
I also think a Belgian newspaper wrote an article a few years ago called "Lefevre, 30 years of doping" in which they accused him of being involved in doping since he was a pro rider, he sued and won I think. As always in these things, no smoke without fire.
Yeah, Bortolami, from fat unknown pig to World Cup winner in one season, all with the help of Dr.Ferrari. In the same trial as Simeoni, he claimed Ferrari advised then to take Amino acids when there was a red asterik on their training diary, Simeoni said it meant EPO. Who do you believe, Simeoni or the guy who was eventually busted for EPO possession.
Bagster said:Yeah and why are they *****ing about the UCI delaying if he provided the statement to WADA in 2007??
craig1985 said:I think we should hold an amnesty and have a cut-off date. If you doped and you weren't caught or you confess, nothing happens, but if you test positive from now on, you will never ever race a bike professionally not in this life time or the next. Only if you name names or blow the whistle should you be allowed to race again.
Frigo's Napsack said:I have no idea about Tafi. I suspect that he was dirty at some point. I also remember the fight he had with Cipo and Pantani at the Giro when Mapei announced it was going clean. I like to think that his later years, at least, were clean. He was one of my favorites since he said "I was about to get dropped so I attacked."
craig1985 said:Well at the 1998 Giro when a lot of the teams were digging in their heels with regards to doping, Tafi said "that they can test me anytime anywhere", and the next day, led by Pantani, he felt the full force of omarta and was found at the back of the bunch in tears and on the verge of abandoning, only his team mates and his DS talked him out of it.
I could be wrong but I don't think you would subject yourself to all sorts of abuse if you had something to hide.
BikeCentric said:I have the 2002 Tour of Flanders on DVD - Tafi wins it after attacking like 1,000 times in the last 40 Km. Even back in 2002 when I first watched the thing I was like "I don't know about that..." That being said, it simply could have been a Hell of a day, but it really is a majorly superhuman performance.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with one step my son.biker77 said:So, if we are all of the opinion that doping is a systematic problem in endurance sports, what do we do?
Sure, the guy that got fired by Rock this year because of "poor performance", after one race.BikeCentric said:I don't know if anyone remembers but Mike Creed...
IGF-1, yes. HGH, possibly. Cortisone, probably. Steroids, you'd have to use a lot, over a long period of time. EPO, long term very unlikely. Blood doping, potential for contamination and clotting short term. Long term, your own blood, almost none. Someone else's, yes. Repoxygen, possible, unknown? Stem-cell gene doping, probably, unknown.atolfree said:The long term outcome from using some of these medications ( HGH, anabolic steroids, insulin, the list goes on....) can have dire consequences!!!!
You and I are in complete 1000% agreement here. I couldn't have said it better myself. This is something that isn't brought up enough, and I tip my helmet to you for reminding us of it.These drugs are banned in competition for good reason and should be left for the sick to use as they were intended.
Mellow Velo said:Plenty of informative posts, but do you know whats missing?
At the risk of making another negative post, I'm wondering where all the righteous indignation is?
Where's the, "He's a lying, cheating doper, who's word cannot be trusted..." "where's the evidence, proof?" posts that permeate the Jorge Jaksche thread?
Oh wait, I see, this is all about Quick Step.
Yes. The issue of tackling doping, is like trying to cut down a tree.
Authorities are regularly cutting a few small branches off the top, but appear either unaware, or more likely, reluctant, to go after the root system.
However, when you add up the incidents that have taken place, during the past 5 years, the pattern becomes clear.
The doping histories of many teams, such as Telekom/T Mobile, Liberty Seguros, Phonak, Saunier Duval, are all established.
Add Rabobank's proported practices to Quick Step and Katusha/Gerolsteiner's brace apiece and there should be little doubt.
I think maybe some teams themselves picked up apon this change of focus, or maybe it was a change of attitude of sponsors and so, the team "medical monitoring programme" was born.
Further insurance against the damaging effect of multiple positives.
Any lasting change, if it is to come, must come from a new breed of rider, even more vocal than the ones who now speak out.
The must be prepared to risk all, tackling Omerta, at team level, from within.
Only then, will we see the so desperately needed change of "old guard" personel, take place. Thus rooting out the source of this sport's disease.