Sky/Froome Talk Only (No Way Sky Are Cleans?)

[Catwhoorg]

Either Bilharzia effects him or it doesn't, why does it only effect him when he isn't at a season aim?

Ever had an infection ? You know causes you to feel ****ty the whole time until it clears ?

Don't have to have your red cells munched to be sub-par.


I know that something is odd, but to out and out discount the fact that he at least once had the disease (and it may have reoccurred) is also a little odd.


I will restate, he ought to release his bio passport data. Horner did so. All GT winners should. Only then can we even begin to approach a clean future.

 

[thehog]

To get only one hit apart from the radio one really is very unusual. You'd get more hits for me and I'm not famous/important/an expert. I don't think the radio station has misspelt his name....

That's because you're searching in English.

Try google.de and you'll find him.

I don't know who he is but he's not anonymous.

In addition he is a private doctor working at a private practise. Not a celebrity medic.

I think the title sums up well...

Chris Froome and his parasitic disease Dr. Wolf Groth in conversation with Philip May

2010 was discovered with Chris Froome schistosomiasis, a tropical disease. His body was infested with parasites. After his return to professional sports Froome is stronger than ever. Doubts about the cleanliness of his achievements expressed regularly.

 

[search]

To get only one hit apart from the radio one really is very unusual. You'd get more hits for me and I'm not famous/important/an expert. I don't think the radio station has misspelt his name....

it surely is unusual, but Deutschlandradio is the most reputable radio station in Germany, so it would be even more unusual if this Dr. Groth wasn't an actual expert for tropical diseases

 

[The Hitch]

Please May I direct you to the end of the piece:

And?

What does that sentence about the disease being misunderstood prove, or mean?

This was an article designed to raise awareness for Bilharzia on the back of Froome's success.

She says its a misunderstood disease. It is. And, what does that have to do with Froome?

I know that something is odd, but to out and out discount the fact that he at least once had the disease (and it may have reoccurred) is also a little odd.

Where did I discount the possibility that he had the disease.

I am pointing out the clear holes in his story. Not that he didn't have the disease.

Ever had an infection ? You know causes you to feel ****ty the whole time until it clears ?

Don't have to have your red cells munched to be sub-par.

I don't fully understand this, or maybe you didn't understand my point.

So lets get this straight. You say "feel ****ty until it clears"

Ok i can work with that.

When did it clear?

August 2011? ok. How did it reappear then.

How do you think the disease clears and reappears? The literature says, as do the posters who claim to have expertise (one of whom wasn't from this forum), that the way Bilharzia treatment works is it kills the worms.

So for Froome to be cleared of the disease the worms have to be killed. If they are not killed then he is not cleared and he cant podium the vuelta.

So they were killed, we agree on that right, in time for him to finish the Vuelta in the fastest time.

Do you disagree with this?

If no, then how did he get the disease again then?

From what I and others read the only possibility is if he goes back to Kenya to get the disease again. That makes sense.

Or do you have another theory for how he keeps getting the disease again after getting "cleared" of it?

 

[Hawkwood]

That's because you're searching in English.

Try google.de and you'll find him.

I don't know who he is but he's not anonymous.

In addition he is a private doctor working at a private practise. Not a celebrity medic.

I think the title sums up well...

Nope tried google.de hours ago, and did look at some German medical practitioner websites as well. There are a number of Dr Groths, but when you look further they are not Dr Wolf Groth, I think I know who is the correct Dr Wolf Groth, and he is listed as a general practitioner. I guess that he might have retired as his profile is so low.

 

[Hawkwood]

it surely is unusual, but Deutschlandradio is the most reputable radio station in Germany, so it would be even more unusual if this Dr. Groth wasn't an actual expert for tropical diseases

Well hopefully it's better than the BBC, it has been responsible for some real howlers over the years!

 

[thehog]

And?

What does that sentence about the disease being misunderstood prove, or mean?

This was an article designed to raise awareness for Bilharzia on the back of Froome's success.

She says its a misunderstood disease. It is. And, what does that have to do with Froome?

Where did I discount the possibility that he had the disease.

I am pointing out the clear holes in his story. Not that he didn't have the disease.



I don't fully understand this, or maybe you didn't understand my point.

So lets get this straight. You say "feel ****ty until it clears"

Ok i can work with that.

When did it clear?

August 2011? ok. How did it reappear then.

How do you think the disease clears and reappears? The literature says, as do the posters who claim to have expertise (one of whom wasn't from this forum), that the way Bilharzia treatment works is it kills the worms.

So for Froome to be cleared of the disease the worms have to be killed. If they are not killed then he is not cleared and he cant podium the vuelta.

So they were killed, we agree on that right, in time for him to finish the Vuelta in the fastest time.

Do you disagree with this?

If no, then how did he get the disease again then?

From what I and others read the only possibility is if he goes back to Kenya to get the disease again. That makes sense.

Or do you have another theory for how he keeps getting the disease again after getting "cleared" of it?

Hitch question;

The side effects interest me of the treatment interest me.

Could it be used to offset a passport question?

ie the fluid loss, dehydration and dhiarrira?

 

[martinvickers]

And?

What does that sentence about the disease being misunderstood prove, or mean?

This was an article designed to raise awareness for Bilharzia on the back of Froome's success.

She says its a misunderstood disease. It is. And, what does that have to do with Froome?

Where did I discount the possibility that he had the disease.

I am pointing out the clear holes in his story. Not that he didn't have the disease.



I don't fully understand this, or maybe you didn't understand my point.

So lets get this straight. You say "feel ****ty until it clears"

Ok i can work with that.

When did it clear?

August 2011? ok. How did it reappear then.

How do you think the disease clears and reappears? The literature says, as do the posters who claim to have expertise (one of whom wasn't from this forum), that the way Bilharzia treatment works is it kills the worms.

So for Froome to be cleared of the disease the worms have to be killed. If they are not killed then he is not cleared and he cant podium the vuelta.

So they were killed, we agree on that right, in time for him to finish the Vuelta in the fastest time.

Do you disagree with this?

If no, then how did he get the disease again then?

From what I and others read the only possibility is if he goes back to Kenya to get the disease again. That makes sense.

Or do you have another theory for how he keeps getting the disease again after getting "cleared" of it?

The treatment that Kills the live worms does not, as far as I know, always kill all the eggs they've laid. They can'embed' in tissue, and on rare occasions hatch, to lead to what appears to be, basically, a bit of a relapse.

Not suggesting this is what happened in this case, because i clearly don't have a notion, or indeed that it is common, but that is my genuine understanding of the difference between the 'typical' acute outbreak and the rarer possible appearance of 'chronic' symptoms.

 

[ferryman]

The treatment that Kills the live worms does not, as far as I know, always kill all the eggs they've laid. They can'embed' in tissue, and on rare occasions hatch, to lead to what appears to be, basically, a bit of a relapse.

Not suggesting this is what happened in this case, because i clearly don't have a notion, or indeed that it is common, but that is my genuine understanding of the difference between the 'typical' acute outbreak and the rarer possible appearance of 'chronic' symptoms.

There must be levels of infection on this. Froome's must have been at the severe end of the scale. A few months ago I took the opportunity to ask my South African Sister in Law about the disease (she has a medical background as well as the African credential). Her immediate reaction was dismissive, quite common, no big deal, is treated by a course of pills yay big and that it is it (unless, in her words, you are stupid enough to go swimming again in the same place).

 

[thehog]

There must be levels of infection on this. Froome's must have been at the severe end of the scale. A few months ago I took the opportunity to ask my South African Sister in Law about the disease (she has a medical background as well as the African credential). Her immediate reaction was dismissive, quite common, no big deal, is treated by a course of pills yay big and that it is it (unless, in her words, you are stupid enough to go swimming again in the same place).

The problem being it appears to get used as "the" explanation to why he went sideways to in-saddle accelerator.

Contador had a brain hemorrhage. You don't hear him using that an explanation for a poor performance.

Froome has this question mark from pre-Sept-11. The reverse EPO disease gets used as an explanation. Meaning Froome would have been really good if it wasn't for this condition.

On closer inspection that explanation doesn't add up or make much sense.

There lies the problem.

 

[wansteadimp]

Well hopefully it's better than the BBC, it has been responsible for some real howlers over the years!

Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atfNL0_KAcs

 

[MatParker117]

There must be levels of infection on this. Froome's must have been at the severe end of the scale. A few months ago I took the opportunity to ask my South African Sister in Law about the disease (she has a medical background as well as the African credential). Her immediate reaction was dismissive, quite common, no big deal, is treated by a course of pills yay big and that it is it (unless, in her words, you are stupid enough to go swimming again in the same place).

Apparently him and his brothers hunted/hunt a lot in Rice Fields riddled with the things.

 

[The Hitch]

The treatment that Kills the live worms does not, as far as I know, always kill all the eggs they've laid. They can'embed' in tissue, and on rare occasions hatch, to lead to what appears to be, basically, a bit of a relapse.
.

Yes, the eggs can survive Biltricide. This has been established a million times by now, no one has ever suggested otherwise.

But what makes you think the eggs will then hatch inside the body and cause a relapse?

The literature on the subject explicitly states this not to be the case.

Eg from Rosemary Drisdelles article linked by matparker.

The eggs do not hatch inside the human body and give rise to more parasites: they need fresh water and a snail host in order to develop

The life cycle absolutely requires the snail intermediate host.

Or this picture from the UNited States centre for disease control, showing how Bilharzia works.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Schistosomiasis_Life_Cycle.png

Considering the experts clearly say eggs cannot hatch inside the body and considering this has been posted a gazzilion times since July, everytime a new poster tried to offer it as an explanation, if you want to continue arguing that eggs hatching inside the body is a plausible explanation for Froome you are going to have to come up with some backup to counter the above.

 

[MatParker117]

Yes, the eggs can survive Biltricide. This has been established a million times by now, no one has ever suggested otherwise.

But what makes you think the eggs will then hatch inside the body and cause a relapse?

The literature on the subject explicitly states this not to be the case.

Eg from Rosemary Drisdelles article linked by matparker.





Or this picture from the UNited States centre for disease control, showing how Bilharzia works.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fb/Schistosomiasis_Life_Cycle.png

Considering the experts clearly say eggs cannot hatch inside the body and considering this has been posted a gazzilion times since July, everytime a new poster tried to offer it as an explanation, if you want to continue arguing that eggs hatching inside the body is a plausible explanation for Froome you are going to have to come up with some backup to counter the above.

What's more likely is there a still clutches of eggs in various places every now and again they get into the bloodstream and Froome's immune system goes into overdrive fighting the things. If the eggs have damaged his liver and spleen then the treatment is likely to be very unpleasant for him.

 

[thehog]

What's more likely is there a still clutches of eggs in various places every now and again they get into the bloodstream and Froome's immune system goes into overdrive fighting the things. If the eggs have damaged his liver and spleen then the treatment is likely to be very unpleasant for him.

Oh no! Do you think he'll be ok?

Lucky the eggs never hatch say around July time.

Keeps us posted Matt. Let us know if the "clutches of eggs" - que zombie movie theme music - get him.

Hate to have a hospital room incident with the Dawg where he had to confess... stuff...

 

[MatParker117]

Oh no! Do you think he'll be ok?

Lucky the eggs never hatch say around July time.

Keeps us posted Matt. Let us know if the "clutches of eggs" - que zombie movie theme music - get him.

Hate to have a hospital room incident with the Dawg where he had to confess... stuff...

The eggs don't hatch they just float around and do bad stuff to your internal organs.

 

[martinvickers]

The eggs don't hatch they just float around and do bad stuff to your internal organs.

Decided just to look the blooming thing up. and yes, you are quite correct; it seems to be a 'relapse' is an immune response to the existance of the imbedded eggs, not them hatching. Mea cupla on the confusion, although the broader point of eggs and relapses remains.

 

[gooner]

Froome is over in Japan for the crit tomorrow. Looks like the Dawg means business.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...nner-takes-sumo-wrestling-Japan-exchange.html

 

[thehog]

Froome is over in Japan for the crit tomorrow. Looks like the Dawg means business.



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...nner-takes-sumo-wrestling-Japan-exchange.html

Appears that injured back is all good again?

Japan? Must be getting paid for this one and no testing.

 

[Ferminal]

Froome is over in Japan for the crit tomorrow. Looks like the Dawg means business.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ot...nner-takes-sumo-wrestling-Japan-exchange.html

Doesn't look like much weight there... Though he hasn't got much on Kadri (?) tbh.

 

[Avoriaz]

Doesn't look like much weight there... Though he hasn't got much on Kadri (?) tbh.

Is it not Riblon?

 

[Ferminal]

Hence the question mark. I only know Riblon through yellow boots.

Point still stands though.

 

[The Hitch]

Decided just to look the blooming thing up

you mean before when you were arguing about bilharzia, you hadn't even looked it up?

Well, I guess it's good that you are honest about it, to admit that you will takr skys side on an issue without having even looked it up. Shows that you don't really care about the facts, just will take the side purely because it's yours, right or wrong.

. and yes, you are quite correct; it seems to be a 'relapse' is an immune response to the existance of the imbedded eggs, not them hatching. Mea cupla on the confusion, although the broader point of eggs and relapses remains.

Covered a million times, ffs make the effort to research the subject and look over the previous discussions before commenting thinking you are offering something new.

If froomes problems is the eggs remain, then why does it keep appearing and disappearing (and offer some sources please, as those of us who are taking the discussion seriously and not trolling have done)

And explain why froome and Brailsford explicitly state that this is NOT what is happening. They have said it is the parasite not the eggs that affect him.

Why? Explain.

 

[Parker]

And explain why froome and Brailsford explicitly state that this is NOT what is happening. They have said it is the parasite not the eggs that affect him.

Why? Explain.

Here's an experiment for you. Go and find a friend of yours and ask them what the worst illness and injury they have ever had is. Then ask them to describe in detail the mechanism of the illness/injury.
Then match what they say with a medical text book. They will have got a lot of things wrong - because they aren't doctors. They just picked up a few vague snipets of what the doctor said to them and then repeated it (probably incorrectly).
It's the same with Froome

 

[thehog]

Here's an experiment for you. Go and find a friend of yours and ask them what the worst illness and injury they have ever had is. Then ask them to describe in detail the mechanism of the illness/injury.
Then match what they say with a medical text book. They will have got a lot of things wrong - because they aren't doctors. They just picked up a few vague snipets of what the doctor said to them and then repeated it (probably incorrectly).
It's the same with Froome

Brailsford? The master tactician, head honcho of Team Sky ProCycling doesn't know the health of his greatest asset?

Seriously?