Sky/Froome Talk Only (No Way Sky Are Cleans?)

[webvan]

Well it was a long sprint after all...

EDIT - sorry, my timing was off, HD must have frozen, revised time : 3'25", average of 17.5km/h, still pretty decent ;-)

 

[Swede1]

It was a cagey and fairly gentle ascent this year until about 1.5 to 2kms to go - so it isn't too amazing to have had a quicker time in the past. I sincerely doubt Rodriguez did the last km faster last year (although I would like to be wrong in that - suspecting folk of serious levels of doping gives me no pleasure).

Under the 1km banner Froome & Cobo were about 2 seconds ahead of their pursuers. They ended up gaining between 19 & 37 seconds on various competitors in that last km alone; including Mollema, Wiggins & Menchov* who are all in form and will have been desperately fighting to try and claim or defend key GC positions (i.e. podium or top 5).

Compare that to Froome's finishes in the short sharp finishes of stages 5 & 8 (that Rodriguez won). There both Froome (and Cobo) showed little or no sign of such explosive ability over a broadly comparable 500 to 700 metres burst on crazy gradients (although admittedly preceded by flat rather than 5kms of ascent). Infact, on those stages, both trailed in behind the likes of Van den Broeck, Mollema & Menchov, languishing down in positions between 18th and 25th. Yet about 10 days later those two riders have utterly decimated the rest of the field on similar terrain. An incredible change of form for all riders concerned, particularly when you consider that the form of Wiggins, Mollema & Menchov has arguably been fairly consistent throughout the event.

*I will concede that by doing some pace setting up the climb Menchov may not have been at his freshest to make an attack, but his pacing didn't seem too taxing.

Ok this climb is seriously not comparable to a 25% hill for 500 meters. THis was like 6k and average about 8%. Yes the end sections were steeper, but that was after 5k of climbing, which took the punch out of some riders legs who may have acceleration, but not have the ability to keep it going for longer.

Also, Menchov paced for what 3k's? It takes a lot out of you to set tempo on the early parts of the climb. If Menchov didnt set the pace I think he would have been near to Cobo and Fromo.

 

[Escarabajo]

Wiggins on Froome:

"Nobody expected Chris to do what he's done in the last three weeks. After the time trial perhaps there was a thought that we'd go with Chris but I don’t think anyone knew what he could do," Wiggins said.

"I think he's shocked himself this week. He's gone from what he'd done in his career in the past to doing what he did yesterday. All of that in just two and a half weeks."

Different context but not a lot different from many of the comments posted on here on why Froome's credibility is in question.

I also take it 'Nobody' = 'Team Sky' which also makes a mockery of the 'they always knew he had the numbers' Brit apologists on here.

Thanks for the info.

So they are surprised too. That can not be good.

 

[Big Doopie]

anyone notice geox is totally dominating the team standings. sky over an hour behind despite froome and wiggins.

 

[craig1985]

Peter Velits podiumed by limiting his losses in the mountains and putting out one freaky ITT performance. He had also shown way more potential than Froome.

I know that, what I'm getting at is that both have been a major surprise in their (Velits and Froome) respective rides in the Vuelta Sorry if I wasn't clear.

 

[spalco]

anyone notice geox is totally dominating the team standings. sky over an hour behind despite froome and wiggins.

Yes, I did, and they also have 6 riders in the top50 (top43 even to be exaxt); but that's a topic for the Cobo thread I guess...

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

I'm wondering what the other posters who said they would 'watch and wait' think about Froome/Wiggins' performance?

On the one hand it can be argued that it is a very weak field - out of form Anton, Wacky still can't ITT or do high mountains, Nibs, Scarponi out of form, Menchov sucking in the first week. Mollema not quite there etc

On the other, Froome + Wiggins making those other riders look bad and climbing in a way in which we've not seen them ride before.

What would have happened if Sky hadn't ****ed up the TTT?

 

[Toobab]

Oh yeah this is a list compiled by an organisation that has discredited itself by accepting a donation from a rider subject to its own rules. Real believeable stuff alright. It also stated that 156 of the 198 riders on the list showed little or no risk of doping. What to believe????

I think they said that the list was intended to facilitate targetting of individuals who had produced odd results in the past.
In theory this should mean that the highest scorers should have been tested thoroughly and therefore we can be confident of their continued cleanliness.
I suppose from another point of view, it could be a price list.

 

[hrotha]

I think they said that the list was intended to facilitate targetting of individuals who had produced odd results in the past.
In theory this should mean that the highest scorers should have been tested thoroughly and therefore we can be confident of their continued cleanliness.
I suppose from another point of view, it could be a price list.

Except that, according to WADA's report, either Barredo or Popovych (both rated 10) weren't tested at all during the Tour.

 

[bicing]

has it been mentioned that froome is from kenya?
Of course it has been mentioned, but has it been considered a factor of possible relevance to his performances?
While I'm sure he's doped to the gills with some of the more sophisticated juice currently circulating in Britain, it may not hurt either that he was born and raised at high altitude.

WHY ARE KENYANS FAST RUNNERS?

http://www.slate.com/id/2090658/

He was born in Kenya but moved to South Africa and grew up there. So your altitude argument is not valid.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

He was born in Kenya but moved to South Africa and grew up there. So your altitude argument is not valid.

That rather depends on where he grew up in South Africa.

 

[Toobab]

has it been mentioned that froome is from kenya?
Of course it has been mentioned, but has it been considered a factor of possible relevance to his performances?
While I'm sure he's doped to the gills with some of the more sophisticated juice currently circulating in Britain, it may not hurt either that he was born and raised at high altitude.

WHY ARE KENYANS FAST RUNNERS?

http://www.slate.com/id/2090658/

That's true, but I think he's from Nairobi, which is at a much lower altitude than Eldoret. It would be classed as intermediate rather than high altitude, although there should still be some training effect because of the oxygen mix.
The advantages of altitude training for competition at sea level or at altitude are known, there is no secret about this in any sport, and it should not produce any big surprises.
I had honestly believed that things had improved recently, I have been deeply dissapointed watching this Vuelta, it seems obvious to me that this is not normal competition.
I now seriously think the authorities should consider giving up on their attempts at detection and enforcement and just legalise everything and concentrate on education about potential dangerous effects, let them get on with it and let everyone know what to expect, and at least I won't be disappointed anymore.

 

[EderShamir]

He moved to South Africa as a teenager, but what's your definition of growing up?

I would even root for the guy if he still represented Kenya, now I just hope he'll be caught.

 

[Winterfold]

I find it really curious he hasnt been resigned - or if he has they arent talking about it.

Geraint Thomas does a nice breakaway, shares a room with some other team bosses - contract renewed immediately.

Given the objective of the team, you would think they would renew his contract pretty quickly and openly on the strength of this.

Unless he's asking for too much money...

Maybe Ive been hanging around on the Interweb too long and think 2+2=5 too much...

 

[Benotti69]

I find it really curious he hasnt been resigned - or if he has they arent talking about it.

Geraint Thomas does a nice breakaway, shares a room with some other team bosses - contract renewed immediately.

Given the objective of the team, you would think they would renew his contract pretty quickly and openly on the strength of this.

Unless he's asking for too much money...

Maybe Ive been hanging around on the Interweb too long and think 2+2=5 too much...

maybe they are waiting for all the test results to be clear

 

[JibberJim]

I had honestly believed that things had improved recently, I have been deeply dissapointed watching this Vuelta, it seems obvious to me that this is not normal competition.

I've taken something completely different away. To me it's shown that the guy who dabbled privately on his own because he was looking like he had no contract for next year anywhere is enough to make all the normal GC contendors look silly.

That shows there's unlikely to be much in the way of serious entire team doping programs and the majority of the GC guys are clean - and I don't believe it's a team program or Sky would manage to get someone else to support. Froome as an individual is much more likely to be caught than if on a team program.

Geox as the only team that looks dodgy is a big step in the right direction. Froome not being re-signed by Sky will be the giveaway, as they would know exactly how out of the ordinary these power numbers are for him.

 

[webvan]

True except that DB said today again that Froome would be with Sky next year...that they would just need to figure out the details after the Vuelta

I guess things can always change...

 

[Benotti69]

I've taken something completely different away. To me it's shown that the guy who dabbled privately on his own because he was looking like he had no contract for next year anywhere is enough to make all the normal GC contendors look silly.

That shows there's unlikely to be much in the way of serious entire team doping programs and the majority of the GC guys are clean - and I don't believe it's a team program or Sky would manage to get someone else to support. Froome as an individual is much more likely to be caught than if on a team program.

Geox as the only team that looks dodgy is a big step in the right direction. Froome not being re-signed by Sky will be the giveaway, as they would know exactly how out of the ordinary these power numbers are for him.

i imagine those bastions of morality and integrity the Murdochs would have kittens if they thought their TeamSky was cheating to win

 

[Anonymous]

I find it really curious he hasnt been resigned - or if he has they arent talking about it.

Geraint Thomas does a nice breakaway, shares a room with some other team bosses - contract renewed immediately.

Given the objective of the team, you would think they would renew his contract pretty quickly and openly on the strength of this.

Unless he's asking for too much money...

Maybe Ive been hanging around on the Interweb too long and think 2+2=5 too much...

With Geraint contract negotiations were pretty much done. They just announced on the rest day because reports started going around that four teams were interested and quoting G as saying he had spoken to other teams.

With Froome, basically he hadnt done anything prior to the Vuelta, due to a mixture of illness, injury, blah, and they probably hadnt decided if they wanted to keep him. Then during DB has said that they plan to keep Chris at Sky but arent talking about it till after the vuelta so he can concentrate on racing.

 

[chrisb]

first off i have to admit that viewing wise, watching Froome and Cobo in thuis vuelta has been beyond entertaining, its been excellent viewing

saying that though, i just cant trust either lads credentials when it comes to their performances, and in particular, Froome.

with all due respect to the lad, he's obviously a talented rider,

but he's won nothing of note in his career to date, and now, all of a sudden, he's attacking on the steepest climbs in spain as if he where a mixture of contador and a 2003 Lance armstrong,

it simply doesnt add up,

sure even his team mates seem genuinely shocked at his performances, and that in itself is a dead give away.

plus who could trust the Murdochs when it comes to anything, really, the Murdochs???????

 

[Anonymous]

plus who could trust the Murdochs when it comes to anything, really, the Murdochs???????

what do the murdochs have to do with it?

Thats like saying you dont trust Peter Chou

 

[chrisb]

what do the murdochs have to do with it?

Thats like saying you dont trust Peter Chou

last time i checked, James Murdoch is funding this team is he not?

i wouldnt trust them Murdochs as far as i could throw them

the Froome from nowhere thing just doesnt add up,

most GC contenders are either amazing riders, ala Contador, Schlecks, Evans etc...., or then you have the progressers, like Sastre, Peirero or say Nibali,

Froome doesnt fit into either of these categories, he was nothing, and now, all of sudden, after an "illness layoff" he's murdering people on climbs and blitzing Fabian Cancellara in a time trial.

im sorry, but i just cant see how thats possible, its such a dramatic jump it doesnt seem normal.

you have to admit, its a fair jump for him,

 

[Benotti69]

what do the murdochs have to do with it?

Thats like saying you dont trust Peter Chou

The Murdochs are results driven. They dont put their money into anything without wanting a return. If anyone is aware of the latest ongoing investigations in the UK into the illegal manner in which their papers have been sourcing stories you will see that their morals and integrity are in the gutter.

I guess they are demanding results from TeamSky and are not interested whether that involves doping or not as long as the results come.

What makes you think a billionaire mobile phone maker is any different from the Murdochs? If anything the mobile phone world is more cut throat than the newspaper business due to the speed of the advancement of new technology.

 

[Chris L]

I doubt they're demanding results from DB, particularly not in the Vuelta which means naff all outside cycling. Sky doesn't have much of a presence outside of the UK and Italy and News Corp doesn't have a single holding inside Spain.

I recall an interview last year where DB was massively critical about the season's performance but News Int didn't seem to mind too much.

It is interested to see how the rider roster is being shaped by News International, e.g. more Italians being brought in.

 

[Benotti69]

I doubt they're demanding results from DB, particularly not in the Vuelta which means naff all outside cycling. Sky doesn't have much of a presence outside of the UK and Italy and News Corp doesn't have a single holding inside Spain.

I recall an interview last year where DB was massively critical about the season's performance but News Int didn't seem to mind too much.

It is interested to see how the rider roster is being shaped by News International, e.g. more Italians being brought in.

The Murdochs give a Brailsford a bunch of millions to go play with and they expect nothing in return, somehow i dont think so.