So....cav outside time limit but race organisers let him stay in TDF

[Lanark]

Yeah, totally a conspiracy to keep Cavendish in the race. They certainly would have thrown those 80 guys out of the Tour if he wasn't in that group.

 

[kjetilraknerud]

We should throw them all out, and Tommy D will win in Paris, with Rojas in second place.

 

[SirLes]

Sorry!

I'm glad that Farrar made it. Given his problems early in the stage he must have been hanging on.

Intererseting to see some of the names back there- Leiphimer and Hondo were both active early in the day as was Gilbert.

My guess is they intended to finish inside the limit but misjudged it. The other gruppetto got it right as they were just inside.

I think taking points off people is a good punishment though. My guess is that it is because traditionally those in the gruppetto are sprinters and therefore usually fighting it out for the Green Jersey. Given the arbitrary nature of the time limit, an acceptance that the time limit is too tight if a large number fail to get inside it is logical IMO.

Given we want a cleaner sport I'm not sure thowing half the peloton out because they are knackered is really sending out the right message!

 

[Descender]

It also means others in the grupetto in the future that know the rules...could just sit back and see the whole team of the jersey wearer have to do all the pulling...knowing they wont get kicked out and will get as much of a free ride as possible

Which is probably what happened today.

 

[thirteen]

Why are there just calls throw at Cav but nothing about Thor, EBH or Gilbert?

throw them ALL out!

like i said, the tightening of the time-cut was absurd.

but i really dislike this subjective adherence to the rules.

 

[SirLes]

I've just reread the original article and it is very misleading. It implies that Cav was the only one outside the time limit by saying the gruppetto made it inside the time limit. In fact there were two gruppettos. One inside the time limit(just) and another larger one ( which included Cav) just outside.

Stupidly I fell for it. This thread would be better titled about 80 riders finished just outside the time limit. Should they all be thrown out.

 

[hrotha]

I think harsher penalties are in order. That, or enforcing the time limits without mercy. Anyway, as the rules stand right now, this has nothing to do with Cav per se.

 

[Timmy-loves-Rabo]

this always happens. Not just in le tour.

anyway would be cool if they did in fact throw riders out, but whatever.

 

[Richeypen]

Sorry!

I'm glad that Farrar made it. Given his problems early in the stage he must have been hanging on.

Intererseting to see some of the names back there- Leiphimer and Hondo were both active early in the day as was Gilbert.

My guess is they intended to finish inside the limit but misjudged it. The other gruppetto got it right as they were just inside.

I think taking points off people is a good punishment though. My guess is that it is because traditionally those in the gruppetto are sprinters and therefore usually fighting it out for the Green Jersey. Given the arbitrary nature of the time limit, an acceptance that the time limit is too tight if a large number fail to get inside it is logical IMO.

Given we want a cleaner sport I'm not sure thowing half the peloton out because they are knackered is really sending out the right message!

This


(and other letters as well to make the limit)

 

[Mambo95]

Why single out Cavendish?

Also in that group were Hushovd, EBH, Gilbert, Roy, Mollema, Greipel, Farrar, Costa, LL Sanchez, Casar, Delage. Riders who have made big contributions to this Tour and it's entertainment.

Perhaps you would rather they hadn't bothered so they could ride, unseen, up a mountain two minutes quicker.

 

[Apollonius]

So Cav is punished (as are other points riders) but what punishment for those with no points? They get a free ride.....esp the domestiques who will go on to assist their team leaders tomorrow. FFS.

 

[Billy Boy]

Yeah, throw them all out, what a great spectacle the race would be

81 Arthur Vichot (Fra) FDJ 82 Mickaël Delage (Fra) FDJ
83 Bernhard Eisel (Aut) HTC-Highroad
84 Linus Gerdemann (Ger) Leopard Trek
85 Sandy Casar (Fra) FDJ
86 Christian Knees (Ger) Sky Procycling
87 Daniel Oss (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
88 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto
89 Rui Alberto Faria Da Costa (Por) Movistar Team
90 Jurgen Roelandts (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto
91 Sylvain Chavanel (Fra) Quickstep Cycling Team
92 Sébastien Turgot (Fra) Team Europcar
93 André Greipel (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto
94 Manuel Quinziato (Ita) BMC Racing Team
95 Andrey Amador Bakkazakova (CRc) Movistar Team
96 Mark Cavendish (GBr) HTC-Highroad
97 Fabian Cancellara (Swi) Leopard Trek
98 Perrig Quemeneur (Fra) Team Europcar
99 Andriy Grivko (Ukr) Pro Team Astana
100 Grega Bole (Slo) Lampre - ISD
101 Simon Gerrans (Aus) Sky Procycling
102 Sébastien Hinault (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
103 Cyril Gautier (Fra) Team Europcar
104 Marco Marcato (Ita) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team
105 Tony Gallopin (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
106 José Ivan Gutierrez Palacios (Spa) Movistar Team
107 Tony Martin (Ger) HTC-Highroad
108 Jérémie Galland (Fra) Saur - Sojasun
109 Matthew Harley Goss (Aus) HTC-Highroad
110 Jimmy Engoulvent (Fra) Saur - Sojasun
111 Mark Renshaw (Aus) HTC-Highroad
112 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) HTC-Highroad
113 Grischa Niermann (Ger) Rabobank Cycling Team
114 Alessandro Petacchi (Ita) Lampre - ISD
115 Denys Kostyuk (Ukr) Lampre - ISD
116 Danilo Hondo (Ger) Lampre - ISD
117 Blel Kadri (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
118 David Millar (GBr) Team Garmin-Cervelo
119 Alessandro Vanotti (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
120 Adriano Malori (Ita) Lampre - ISD
121 Alan Perez Lezaun (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi
122 Paolo Longo Borghini (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
123 Juan Antonio Flecha Giannoni (Spa) Sky Procycling
124 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Team Garmin-Cervelo
125 Benjamin Noval Gonzalez (Spa) Saxo Bank Sungard
126 Luis Leon Sanchez Gil (Spa) Rabobank Cycling Team
127 Maciej Paterski (Pol) Liquigas-Cannondale
128 Addy Engels (Ned) Quickstep Cycling Team
129 Anthony Delaplace (Fra) Saur - Sojasun
130 Jérôme Pineau (Fra) Quickstep Cycling Team
131 Kristijan Koren (Slo) Liquigas-Cannondale
132 Bauke Mollema (Ned) Rabobank Cycling Team
133 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto
134 Tomas Vaitkus (Ltu) Pro Team Astana
135 Fabio Sabatini (Ita) Liquigas-Cannondale
136 Björn Leukemans (Bel) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team
137 Jérémy Roy (Fra) FDJ
138 Romain Zingle (Bel) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
139 Lars Ytting Bak (Den) HTC-Highroad
140 Jakob Fuglsang (Den) Leopard Trek
141 Nicki Sörensen (Den) Saxo Bank Sungard
142 Julien El Fares (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
143 Edvald Boasson Hagen (Nor) Sky Procycling
144 Francisco José Ventoso Alberdi (Spa) Movistar Team
145 Tristan Valentin (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
146 Samuel Dumoulin (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
147 Mikhail Ignatyev (Rus) Katusha Team
148 Arnaud Coyot (Fra) Saur - Sojasun
149 Gerald Ciolek (Ger) Quickstep Cycling Team
150 Ben Swift (GBr) Sky Procycling
151 Brian Vandborg (Den) Saxo Bank Sungard
152 Leonardo Fabio Duque (Col) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
153 Sébastien Minard (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale
154 Anthony Roux (Fra) FDJ
155 Tyler Farrar (USA) Team Garmin-Cervelo
156 Danny Pate (USA) HTC-Highroad
157 Vincent Jerome (Fra) Team Europcar
158 Mickaël Buffaz (Fra) Cofidis, Le Credit En Ligne
159 Maciej Bodnar (Pol) Liquigas-Cannondale
160 Matteo Tosatto (Ita) Saxo Bank Sungard
161 Jonathan Hivert (Fra) Saur - Sojasun
162 Yohann Gene (Fra) Team Europcar
163 Dmitriy Muravyev (Kaz) Team RadioShack
164 Niki Terpstra (Ned) Quickstep Cycling Team
165 Marcus Burghardt (Ger) BMC Racing Team
166 Borut Bozic (Slo) Vacansoleil-DCM Pro Cycling Team
167 Laurent Mangel (Fra) Saur - Sojasun
168 Marcel Sieberg (Ger) Omega Pharma-Lotto

 

[Ragerod]

He and all the others outside the limit should still be in. Only guys that were behind the 80-man grupetto should be eliminated. Disqualifying anyone from one of the side competitions for finishing outside the time limit is probably a step too far but perhaps the -20 points is too lenient.

We have to remember that the green jersey competition this year isn't the norm. Most years the top 5 or 10 places would be occupied by sprinters that would be in the grupetto and excluding all of them would undermine the whole competition.

A points deduction is fair. Rojas and Cavendish have both worked equally hard today and Rojas' climbing ability has been rewarded.

 

[eztarget]

In a race like this why even have time limits? Or at the very least make the limits ridiculously high so that all the riders can make it.

 

[Billy Boy]

He and all the others outside the limit should still be in. Only guys that were behind the 80-man grupetto should be eliminated. Disqualifying anyone from one of the side competitions for finishing outside the time limit is probably a step too far but perhaps the -20 points is too lenient.

We have to remember that the green jersey competition this year isn't the norm. Most years the top 5 or 10 places would be occupied by sprinters that would be in the grupetto and excluding all of them would undermine the whole competition.

A points deduction is fair. Rojas and Cavendish have both worked equally hard today and Rojas' climbing ability has been rewarded.

Yeah, because the green jersey should always be a reflection of climbing ability.

 

[eztarget]

Yeah, because the green jersey should always be a reflection of climbing ability.

Exactly. People come out on the flat stages to see guys with Cavendish's speed not the skinning barely living skeleton climbers hiding in the main pack.

 

[Aleajactaest]

From the report on Stage 18:



They just deducted points from his green jersey lead......this was introduced into the Vuelta a few years back when i believe Greipel finished outside the limit, but they let him stay in.

Your thoughts?.....should he be in or out

Out. That's why they have rules. At the very least, he should be DQ'd for the points Jersey.

 

[Damiano Machiavelli]

Exactly. People come out on the flat stages to see guys with Cavendish's speed not the skinning barely living skeleton climbers hiding in the main pack.

Yeah, when Thor won the green jersey with his climbing ability he was a real skeleton. It was hard not to mistake him for Rasmussen.

 

[Aleajactaest]

Yeah, because the green jersey should always be a reflection of climbing ability.

Not but you should be able to finish the race within the rules. Otherwise just have a different race just for sprinters. 2 weeks of flat stages.

 

[eztarget]

Otherwise just have a different race just for sprinters. 2 weeks of flat stages.

Isn't that what they have already?

 

[Mambo95]

Yeah, when Thor won the green jersey with his climbing ability he was a real skeleton. It was hard not to mistake him for Rasmussen.

He got 12 points with his climbing ability. He would have struggled to win it with just that.

The 268 points he got from his sprinting ability probably helped.

 

[Jamsque]

For decades he Tour has relaxed the time limit for large groups on tough mountain stages. The Giro does it too. So does the Vuelta. So does every stage race. It's not in anyone's interest for the organisers to kick out huge groups of riders like that: not the race, not the teams, not the fans. If Cav finished with a group of 50+ other guys then his continued participation is absolutely not any kind of special treatment.

Besides, if he loses another 20 tomorrow the green jersey is interesting again.

 

[SirLes]

Back in the 80s Paul Sherwen was reinstated having finished outside the time limit on his own. He had been involved in a bad crash but had carried on riding through bad weather on his own despite knowing his chances of making the cut were basically zero.

The organisers felt he had shown great courage and waivered their own rules. Very unusual. Good job some of the posters aren't commissaires, he'd probably have been banned from future additions for wasting everyone's time

 

[Richeypen]

Back in the 80s Paul Sherwen was reinstated having finished outside the time limit on his own. He had been involved in a bad crash but had carried on riding through bad weather on his own despite knowing his chances of making the cut were basically zero.

The organisers felt he had shown great courage and waivered their own rules. Very unusual. Good job some of the posters aren't commissaires, he'd probably have been banned from future additions for wasting everyone's time

Banned from commentating would be a fair punishment

 

[Richeypen]

Out. That's why they have rules. At the very least, he should be DQ'd for the points Jersey.

You are right, the rules should be adhered to.


Oh wait, they were. I suggest you understand the rules before commenting on them.